"Rightly Dividing" 2 Timothy 2:15

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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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i find it interesting that @Nehemiah6 who is also KJV-only-ist does not agree with hyper-dispensationalism. so it's like you say, Lucy, the divided gospel is not a product of KJV but of misunderstanding what the Spirit is saying through Paul in his letter to Timothy. the KJV was around for 200+ years before anyone started preaching multi-gospels.

not a "bad sword" but a misalignment, in terms of the OP :giggle:
Its interesting that the jehovah witnesses only preach the Gospel as mentioned in luke 9.6 . They reject the one Paul preached believing that's only for the 144000 . They think the ones preaching luke 9.6 is for the one class and Paul's message is only for the class of 144000 .
 

phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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Actually, there are probably millions...hopefully. Do you believe that more than one English bible is the inspired word of God? Even though they contain different words and different truths?

Yep, there are probably a lot of people who use the Kjv, but that's not what I was talking about. I said the cranks and nutters are few. those who misuse the Kjv because, basically, they don't understand the terminology - archaic words, words that have changed meaning over time and Old English grammar.. That's why most cults and false teachers use the Kjv.

Yes, most English translations as well as other language translations are the Word of God. (there's some not so good ones). God has protected/preserved the transmission of His word from the originally inspired autographs and now we have many translations just as there many copies of the greek texts from various places and times.

God has preserved his word. Whether it be in the form of the King Jimmy, ESV, NASB etc etc.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Dec 20, 2017
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Something that is said before the cross and resurrection or After . Something that is said prior to the giving of the Holy Spirit and after . Something that is said prior to his birth and after . Before the ascension ,after? before the tribulation or after ?
Do you watch a film in reverse . The ending before the beginning ? I'm trying as gentile as I can to point out the obvious here . Why is this frowned upon lol ?
God told us the end from the beginning. He gave us a whole history of the future.
You seem to be caught up on something that has never bothered me.
I can't remember ever conceptualising God as being bound by time in the way that we are. The blood of Jesus worked backwards through time and cleansed Abraham because he believed God would send the perfect sacrifice in his time.
Elijah & Elisha were full of The Holy Spirit. Hebrews Ch 11 is a beautiful chapter where Paul talks about the OT believers together with us being made perfect. If I paste it all the post will become exceedingly long.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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God told us the end from the beginning. He gave us a whole history of the future.
You seem to be caught up on something that has never bothered me.
I can't remember ever conceptualising God as being bound by time in the way that we are. The blood of Jesus worked backwards through time and cleansed Abraham because he believed God would send the perfect sacrifice in his time.
Elijah & Elisha were full of The Holy Spirit. Hebrews Ch 11 is a beautiful chapter where Paul talks about the OT believers together with us being made perfect. If I paste it all the post will become exceedingly long.
Isn't that a bit rich coming from the fact that we now have a completed bible? Are you not looking back assuming from this vantage they knew everything we now understand. Especially in light of :
I. The Mystery of the "Incarnation."

"Without controversy great is the

'Mystery of Godliness'
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim. 3:16.​
It is no mystery that God should reveal Himself by speaking from the Heavens, as on Mt. Sinai, but that He should take on the "Human Form" and "tabernacle" among us that was a great mystery. This He did in the person of Christ. John 1:1-14. So Jesus could say, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father." John 14:9.

II. The Mystery of the "Divine Indwelling."

In Col. 1:26-28, Paul speaks of another "Mystery" which had been hid from "Ages" and from "Generations," but was then made manifest to the saints. He calls it the Mystery of "Christ in You." This is a great mystery because it is the mystery of the "New Birth." A mystery that brought from Nicodemus the exclamation-"How can a man be born when he is old?" John 3:4. The New Birth is wonderful, but it is a wonderful fact. It is the union of the Divine Nature and ours. So that just as Jesus became one with us by His taking our human nature, so we become one with Him by taking on the Divine Nature. The mystery of this union is, that it is a union of "identity." We are just as much a part of Christ as the members of the body are a part of the body. 1 Cor. 12:12. It is for Christ to live in us. Gal. 2:20.

III. The Mystery of the "Union of Jews and Gentiles in One Body Called the Church."

In his letter to the saints at Ephesus (Eph. 3:1-11), Paul says, that God by revelation made known to him the "Mystery," which in other Ages had not been made known unto the sons of men, "That the Gentiles should be 'Fellow Heirs,' and of the 'Same Body,' and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospel."

It is almost impossible to overestimate the bitter "Race Hatred" which existed in Christ's day between Jew and Gentile. It was a lofty "middle wall or partition" between them. The Jews looked upon the Gentiles as "dogs," and the Gentiles despised the Jews. It was worse than the caste spirit of India. It was therefore to them a revelation that, God was going in this Dispensation to take some Jews and some Gentiles and form of them a "New Body" called the Church. In Christ all race and class distinctions disappear, and it is only in the Church that such a "Holy Brotherhood" can be found as the world is seeking.

IV. The Mystery of the "Seven Stars" and the "Seven Candlesticks".

To the Apostle John was revealed the Mystery of the "Seven Stars," and the "Seven Candlesticks." Rev. 1:12-20. He was told that the "Seven Stars" stood for the Angels or Messengers of the Seven Churches that were in Asia Minor, and the Seven Candlesticks stood for the Seven Churches themselves. The Mystery of these Candlesticks lay in the fact that the Seven Churches mentioned were representative Churches, whose history was typical of the history of the Christian Church for the past 1900 years, and the Mystery could not be understood until the present time, or until the correspondence between the character of those Churches and Church history should be revealed. For a full discussion of this see the Chapter on "The Seven Churches."

V. The Mystery of the "Kingdom of Heaven."

When the Jews rejected Christ, and thus prevented the setting up of the Kingdom, the Kingdom took on another form, the "Mystery Form." To show the character of this "Mystery Form" of the Kingdom, Jesus resorted to parables. These parables are 12 in number and are found in Matthew's Gospel only. For a full description of them see the Chapter on "The Kingdom," part two, "The Kingdom In Mystery."

VI. The Mystery of the "Translation of the Living Saints."

In 1 Cor. 15:51-55, Paul says-

"Behold, I show you a 'Mystery'; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump."​
This is the greatest of all mysteries, because it reveals something that reason never dreamed of. According to reason the common lot of man is to die, but to be taken off this earth and translated to heaven without dying was never thought of until revealed to Paul. For a full description of this Mystery see the Chapter on "The Church."

VII. The Mystery of "Israel's Blindness."

Writing to the Romans (Rom. 11:25) Paul says-

"I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of This Mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that Blindness in Part is happened to Israel, until, the 'Fulness of the Gentiles' be come in."​
This is not so much spiritual blindness as Judicial blindness caused by their rejection of Christ. This blindness is national and not individual, for we must not forget that the bulk of believers in the Apostles' day were Jews, and quite a few Jews have embraced Christianity since. The revelation of this Mystery to Paul was to account for what otherwise would remain a Mystery, the survival of the Jewish people as a race while scattered among the nations. See the Chapter on "The Jews."

VIII. The Mystery of "Iniquity."

In 2 Thess. 2:1-12, Paul, speaking of the "Man of Sin" or Antichrist, calls his teaching and claims the

"Mystery of Iniquity,"
which was already at work in Paul's day. The "Mystery of Godliness" is God manifest in the flesh, and the "Mystery of Iniquity" is Satan manifest in the flesh. This Mystery is fully explained in the Chapter on "The Antichrist."

IX. The Mystery of "Babylon the Great."

This Mystery is revealed in the seventeenth chapter of the Book of Revelation and is fully described in the Chapter on "Babylon the Great."

X. The Mystery of the Church As the "Bride of Christ."

This was revealed to Paul, and is disclosed in Eph. 5:22-33, under the figure of the relation of man and wife. "This is a 'Great Mystery'; but I speak concerning Christ and the Church." The first Adam had a bride, Eve; and the second, or Last Adam must have a Bride, the Church. This is a "Great Mystery" because it explains why there should be a "Parenthetical Dispensation" between the First and Second Comings of Christ, in which, by grace, a chosen people should be "called out" to form the Church, the Bride of Christ. This is fully described in the Chapter on "The Church."

XI. The Mystery of the "Restoration of All Things."

This is spoken of by Paul in his letter to the Ephesians (Eph. 1:9-10), as the

"Mystery of His Will,"
and reveals how that in the "Dispensation of the Fulness of Times," it is God's purpose to undo all that sin has done, and restore "All Things" as they were before the "Rebellion of Satan" and the "Fall of Man." How this is to be done is described in the Chapter on the "Renovation of the Earth."
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Isn't that a bit rich coming from the fact that we now have a completed bible? Are you not looking back assuming from this vantage they knew everything we now understand. Especially in light of :
I. The Mystery of the "Incarnation."

"Without controversy great is the

'Mystery of Godliness'
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim. 3:16.​
It is no mystery that God should reveal Himself by speaking from the Heavens, as on Mt. Sinai, but that He should take on the "Human Form" and "tabernacle" among us that was a great mystery. This He did in the person of Christ. John 1:1-14. So Jesus could say, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father." John 14:9.

II. The Mystery of the "Divine Indwelling."

In Col. 1:26-28, Paul speaks of another "Mystery" which had been hid from "Ages" and from "Generations," but was then made manifest to the saints. He calls it the Mystery of "Christ in You." This is a great mystery because it is the mystery of the "New Birth." A mystery that brought from Nicodemus the exclamation-"How can a man be born when he is old?" John 3:4. The New Birth is wonderful, but it is a wonderful fact. It is the union of the Divine Nature and ours. So that just as Jesus became one with us by His taking our human nature, so we become one with Him by taking on the Divine Nature. The mystery of this union is, that it is a union of "identity." We are just as much a part of Christ as the members of the body are a part of the body. 1 Cor. 12:12. It is for Christ to live in us. Gal. 2:20.

III. The Mystery of the "Union of Jews and Gentiles in One Body Called the Church."

In his letter to the saints at Ephesus (Eph. 3:1-11), Paul says, that God by revelation made known to him the "Mystery," which in other Ages had not been made known unto the sons of men, "That the Gentiles should be 'Fellow Heirs,' and of the 'Same Body,' and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospel."

It is almost impossible to overestimate the bitter "Race Hatred" which existed in Christ's day between Jew and Gentile. It was a lofty "middle wall or partition" between them. The Jews looked upon the Gentiles as "dogs," and the Gentiles despised the Jews. It was worse than the caste spirit of India. It was therefore to them a revelation that, God was going in this Dispensation to take some Jews and some Gentiles and form of them a "New Body" called the Church. In Christ all race and class distinctions disappear, and it is only in the Church that such a "Holy Brotherhood" can be found as the world is seeking.

IV. The Mystery of the "Seven Stars" and the "Seven Candlesticks".

To the Apostle John was revealed the Mystery of the "Seven Stars," and the "Seven Candlesticks." Rev. 1:12-20. He was told that the "Seven Stars" stood for the Angels or Messengers of the Seven Churches that were in Asia Minor, and the Seven Candlesticks stood for the Seven Churches themselves. The Mystery of these Candlesticks lay in the fact that the Seven Churches mentioned were representative Churches, whose history was typical of the history of the Christian Church for the past 1900 years, and the Mystery could not be understood until the present time, or until the correspondence between the character of those Churches and Church history should be revealed. For a full discussion of this see the Chapter on "The Seven Churches."

V. The Mystery of the "Kingdom of Heaven."

When the Jews rejected Christ, and thus prevented the setting up of the Kingdom, the Kingdom took on another form, the "Mystery Form." To show the character of this "Mystery Form" of the Kingdom, Jesus resorted to parables. These parables are 12 in number and are found in Matthew's Gospel only. For a full description of them see the Chapter on "The Kingdom," part two, "The Kingdom In Mystery."

VI. The Mystery of the "Translation of the Living Saints."

In 1 Cor. 15:51-55, Paul says-

"Behold, I show you a 'Mystery'; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump."​
This is the greatest of all mysteries, because it reveals something that reason never dreamed of. According to reason the common lot of man is to die, but to be taken off this earth and translated to heaven without dying was never thought of until revealed to Paul. For a full description of this Mystery see the Chapter on "The Church."

VII. The Mystery of "Israel's Blindness."

Writing to the Romans (Rom. 11:25) Paul says-

"I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of This Mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that Blindness in Part is happened to Israel, until, the 'Fulness of the Gentiles' be come in."​
This is not so much spiritual blindness as Judicial blindness caused by their rejection of Christ. This blindness is national and not individual, for we must not forget that the bulk of believers in the Apostles' day were Jews, and quite a few Jews have embraced Christianity since. The revelation of this Mystery to Paul was to account for what otherwise would remain a Mystery, the survival of the Jewish people as a race while scattered among the nations. See the Chapter on "The Jews."

VIII. The Mystery of "Iniquity."

In 2 Thess. 2:1-12, Paul, speaking of the "Man of Sin" or Antichrist, calls his teaching and claims the

"Mystery of Iniquity,"
which was already at work in Paul's day. The "Mystery of Godliness" is God manifest in the flesh, and the "Mystery of Iniquity" is Satan manifest in the flesh. This Mystery is fully explained in the Chapter on "The Antichrist."

IX. The Mystery of "Babylon the Great."

This Mystery is revealed in the seventeenth chapter of the Book of Revelation and is fully described in the Chapter on "Babylon the Great."

X. The Mystery of the Church As the "Bride of Christ."

This was revealed to Paul, and is disclosed in Eph. 5:22-33, under the figure of the relation of man and wife. "This is a 'Great Mystery'; but I speak concerning Christ and the Church." The first Adam had a bride, Eve; and the second, or Last Adam must have a Bride, the Church. This is a "Great Mystery" because it explains why there should be a "Parenthetical Dispensation" between the First and Second Comings of Christ, in which, by grace, a chosen people should be "called out" to form the Church, the Bride of Christ. This is fully described in the Chapter on "The Church."

XI. The Mystery of the "Restoration of All Things."

This is spoken of by Paul in his letter to the Ephesians (Eph. 1:9-10), as the

"Mystery of His Will,"
and reveals how that in the "Dispensation of the Fulness of Times," it is God's purpose to undo all that sin has done, and restore "All Things" as they were before the "Rebellion of Satan" and the "Fall of Man." How this is to be done is described in the Chapter on the "Renovation of the Earth."


Mystery = Secret
Things that are hidden aren't things no one has ever known or heard about.
No one knows my phone number apart from those I give it to. It's a mystery to everyone else.

I'm not interested in the strict Dispensational doctrine. I've already but it in the dustbin where it belongs.
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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well, seems the original op has been a great starting point for a vast conspiracy of how we are being led astray if we use anything but the KJV

So good to know that at last we shall all be saved and righty divided (yes a play on words) if we jump on that bandwagon and attack people...er translations...with the intent to illustrate our superior understanding while totally messing up a thread.
 

SophieT

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Dec 9, 2020
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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God,a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.(2 Timothy 2:15, nkjv)
I would like to know how we went from the above to arguing about dispensationalism

(rhetorical question)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Mystery = Secret
Things that are hidden aren't things no one has ever known or heard about.
No one knows my phone number apart from those I give it to. It's a mystery to everyone else.

I'm not interested in the strict Dispensational doctrine. I've already but it in the dustbin where it belongs.
A "Mystery" in the New Testament sense is not something that cannot be understood, but is some plan or purpose of God that has been known to Him from the beginning, but which He has withheld from the knowledge of men until the time came for Him to reveal it
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,277
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Mystery = Secret
Things that are hidden aren't things no one has ever known or heard about.
No one knows my phone number apart from those I give it to. It's a mystery to everyone else.

I'm not interested in the strict Dispensational doctrine. I've already but it in the dustbin where it belongs.
" I hate people who recognise differences in the bible , but I've stopped animal sacrifices though "
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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' Rightly noticing the differences in the bible ' I don't label myself any ' ism ' but rather ' Rightly noticing the differences in the bible '
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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i find it interesting that @Nehemiah6 who is also KJV-only-ist does not agree with hyper-dispensationalism. so it's like you say, Lucy, the divided gospel is not a product of KJV but of misunderstanding what the Spirit is saying through Paul in his letter to Timothy. the KJV was around for 200+ years before anyone started preaching multi-gospels.

not a "bad sword" but a misalignment, in terms of the OP :giggle:
What do you think of those here who claimed to be dispensationalists and yet insist that Peter and Paul preached the exact same gospel? ;)
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Yep, there are probably a lot of people who use the Kjv, but that's not what I was talking about. I said the cranks and nutters are few. those who misuse the Kjv because, basically, they don't understand the terminology - archaic words, words that have changed meaning over time and Old English grammar.. That's why most cults and false teachers use the Kjv.

Yes, most English translations as well as other language translations are the Word of God. (there's some not so good ones). God has protected/preserved the transmission of His word from the originally inspired autographs and now we have many translations just as there many copies of the greek texts from various places and times.

God has preserved his word. Whether it be in the form of the King Jimmy, ESV, NASB etc etc.
Well, the word of God cannot lie and when versions differ in facts, then one or more are lying.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

To me it seems like putting things in their proper place knowing what scriptures go with scriptures to form the whole truth of the subject because the truth of a subject is not always in one chapter and then that is the end of understanding that.

Like if we want to understand Daniel's 70 weeks, or the millennial reign, or the resurrection, there are many scriptures throughout the Bible that cause a person to understand the truth better and not all in one place.

Some people can form a doctrine from one scripture and say it is truth but then many times you can point out scriptures in other places of the Bible that show the interpretation is wrong because they contradict what they believe.

Many people have had a wrong interpretation by forming a doctrine by one scripture and could not see the contradictions of other scriptures.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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What do you think of those here who claimed to be dispensationalists and yet insist that Peter and Paul preached the exact same gospel? ;)
Who are we talking about?
 

SophieT

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Dec 9, 2020
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Well, the word of God cannot lie and when versions differ in facts, then one or more are lying.
The KJ is not the word of God. It is a translation with errors, so, that must make it a lying book also.

There are errors in some translations, but if you are going to try and say the KJ has none, well, then one might ask who is actually lying


seriously? smh
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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The KJ is not the word of God. It is a translation with errors, so, that must make it a lying book also.

There are errors in some translations, but if you are going to try and say the KJ has none, well, then one might ask who is actually lying


seriously? smh
What errors please ?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The KJ is not the word of God. It is a translation with errors, so, that must make it a lying book also.

There are errors in some translations, but if you are going to try and say the KJ has none, well, then one might ask who is actually lying


seriously? smh
Ok, thanks for your opinion...