Romans 13

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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#1
#1
So help me here guys., how is Romans 13 decided

seems to me some people like to spout that whatever clown walks up and claims authority over you is your authority.

so how is it the USA is a divinely established authority? Coz last I looked they took it in bloodshed spouting some bollocks about manifest destiny using British Israel replacement theology to claim God was bringing them into the new Jerusalem

So assuming you're smart enough to shake off that stuff about new jerusalem etc., all that leaves us is manifest destiny which would rpesent several problems. How does one determine manifest destiny? By the sword? Are we to assume that the victor of violence is supported by God? And that God now supports coveting thy neighbors goods and lands?

Seriously.., I need help with this one.., and dont use OT wars because not once in the NT has God EVER asked Christians to kill and slaughter in his name but Im open to hearing it if someone thinks they can change my mind and keep in mind if you use OT dont complain when I do

EDIT:- I'd like to add.., if you believe all this then fine., when this coming war with Iran dont work out in your favor., OBEY YOUR GOVERNMENT!!
 
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Consumed

Guest
#2
#2
hmmm, not sure what you mean bro with all due respect, governments have been instituted by God to start with, sure rarely, if ever, have they been good, may give the appearance as such but they are definately not by the people for the people.
regardless we are to respect authority and not despise it, we can choose not to agree with laws contrary to Gods standard but man is sinful by nature and the worlds ways is a enemy to God

I know you said try not to bring OT into it however David is a great example of honoring bad leadership, daniel as well, the list goes on, and above all that, Jesus didnt walk to rome and dethrone ceasar, we are just foreigners passing thru this world. sometimes we can be like martha martha worried about so many things, easier to just trust Father God with it all and rest at Jesus feet, head on His lap
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#3
#3
Are you saying the English and French slaughter of native indians was led by God?

Habakkuk 2:12 Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and establish a city by iniquity!

Are you saying the slaughter of Australian Aboriginals was the will of God?

Habakkuk 2:15-16
15Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
16Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.

Are you supporting the idea that randoms acts of violence are God ordained?
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#4
#4
Saul's Leadership was Divinely Established by God..., the examples we speak of now were established by bloodshed and greed

Are you trying to say if I can force and impose my will upon someone else it is inspired by God?
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#5
#5
CrimsonFlames said:
Are you saying the English and French slaughter of native indians was led by God?

Habakkuk 2:12 Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and establish a city by iniquity!

Are you saying the slaughter of Australian Aboriginals was the will of God?

Habakkuk 2:15-16
15Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
16Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.
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absolutely not bro, i definately dont, man is evil at heart without God, we cant change the fact that the root of all evil is the love of money, brings power which brings injustice which brings corruption, i know you get what i mean.

Jesus is our hope fulfilled, not of this world though we are still here, ours is heaven, co heirs, wow, co heirs, to think while we were a enemy to God He granted us not just forgiveness but royalty and blessing innumerable to count. Good news.

i too once let the cares of injustice in this world consume me once, choked out the good news of why Jesus come and died for me, i learnt His rest and peace only came by being consumed with and by Him

:) love you bro, this world hurts i agree
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#6
#6
So by what precedence is the US government an Authority to the Indian people?

By what Authority is the Australian government and Authority to the Aboriginal peoples?

Were these governments God ordained or not?

You can perpetuate lies as long as you want consumed., and I will trip you and trip you with the truth until you lay down from broken chins or see the truth., unlike chat your every word here is displayed for peer review
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#7
#7
.....................
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#8
#8
CrimsonFlames said:
Saul's Leadership was Divinely Established by God..., the examples we speak of now were established by bloodshed and greed

Are you trying to say if I can force and impose my will upon someone else it is inspired by God?
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There were too many inflections in some of your arguments, but I see this post on a personal level.

Everything seen are images of things which cannot be seen, because they are spiritual in nature.

When speaking of governments, it helps to down size the picture to make it manageable for me.

You are a body of many parts, each of which are governed by the head of the body. So too is the larger image of governments. So too is the rule of King we called Jesus Christ. So too is the rule of our High Priest we call Jesus Christ. This is the only eternal working model of church and state under the leadership of One person. But if it were possible that one part of your body rebelled against the head of your body; that part would be cut off. This is the image of the violence of sin working in your members. It is written "Who will judge himself?" If we see the work of sin outwardly in another person, and say "that man honors sin!" How much more than do you suppose this takes place within you; because you personally know sin? And yet I know to honor God's work, because He placed this same governing body in each person. David was not showing honor to sin demonstrated on King Saul. David honored God's work, and knew in his heart that God, who is the head, will set all things right in His own time. So, if a person points outwardly at sin, it is only because he knows sin inwardly.
 
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Consumed

Guest
#9
#9
CrimsonFlames said:
So by what precedence is the US government an Authority to the Indian people?

By what Authority is the Australian government and Authority to the Aboriginal peoples?

Were these governments God ordained or not?

You can perpetuate lies as long as you want consumed., and I will trip you and trip you with the truth until you lay down from broken chins or see the truth., unlike chat your every word here is displayed for peer review
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bro after over 1700 posts im open for review without prejudice or fear

you speak of worldly things i only focus on Godly things bro, spiritually minded not carnal. did i partake in the injustice of indigenous races? i stated i dont nor ever had condoned it but come to the realization the world is a evil place.

go over my posts on this thread, i still cant understand how you draw your critique of them by your responses.

same old forum lol, speak about Jesus alone others focus on other things but Him and the Fathers love for us.
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#10
#10
Consumed said:
bro after over 1700 posts im open for review without prejudice or fear

you speak of worldly things i only focus on Godly things bro, spiritually minded not carnal. did i partake in the injustice of indigenous races? i stated i dont nor ever had condoned it but come to the realization the world is a evil place.

go over my posts on this thread, i still cant understand how you draw your critique of them by your responses.

same old forum lol, speak about Jesus alone others focus on other things but Him and the Fathers love for us.
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You did not answer my questions.., I am not interested in how many posts you have made.., I am interested in getting to the core of Romans 13 and what determines authority
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#11
#11
yaright said:
There were too many inflections in some of your arguments, but I see this post on a personal level.

Everything seen are images of things which cannot be seen, because they are spiritual in nature.

When speaking of governments, it helps to down size the picture to make it manageable for me.

You are a body of many parts, each of which are governed by the head of the body. So too is the larger image of governments. So too is the rule of King we called Jesus Christ. So too is the rule of our High Priest we call Jesus Christ. This is the only eternal working model of church and state under the leadership of One person. But if it were possible that one part of your body rebelled against the head of your body; that part would be cut off. This is the image of the violence of sin working in your members. It is written "Who will judge himself?" If we see the work of sin outwardly in another person, and say "that man honors sin!" How much more than do you suppose this takes place within you; because you personally know sin? And yet I know to honor God's work, because He placed this same governing body in each person. David was not showing honor to sin demonstrated on King Saul. David honored God's work, and knew in his heart that God, who is the head, will set all things right in His own time. So, if a person points outwardly at sin, it is only because he knows sin inwardly.
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I do not know you nor you I.., either you want to discuss Romans 13 or not but dont come here to condemn. How hypocritical of you to say such a thing while placing yourself in a position of judgment over me
 
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Consumed

Guest
#12
#12
CrimsonFlames said:
You did not answer my questions.., I am not interested in how many posts you have made.., I am interested in getting to the core of Romans 13 and what determines authority
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what happened to indians and aborigines you questioned on?

you struggling to appriate blame overall?

God is all knowing, powerful and present, His ways arent ours, keeping it simple takes the angst of it all out :)
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#13
#13
CrimsonFlames said:
I do not know you nor you I.., either you want to discuss Romans 13 or not but dont come here to condemn. How hypocritical of you to say such a thing while placing yourself in a position of judgment over me
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I suppose, it you want to play the victim, you don't need to carefully consider the answers you personally asked for in your Thread. Do you want me to feel sorry for you?
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#14
#14
Consumed said:
what happened to indians and aborigines you questioned on?

you struggling to appriate blame overall?

God is all knowing, powerful and present, His ways arent ours, keeping it simple takes the angst of it all out :)
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No.., what happened to the aboriginals and the indians is not the concern here neither however they are the best examples to demonstrate and expose the lies of the Roman Imperialism that you twist scripture to maintain

Fine then., lets take another example. Christians are quick to condemn any notion of civil unrest within western countries whilst they praise the revolution of Libya and condemn Gaddafi so the US can instill Mubarak as a leader who is a more willing US puppet.

Why is this uprising different?

Or I could take the example of the US Civil War.., the people rose up against what they perceived as unfair taxing., however it was still a rebellion none the less and they refused to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's

Why was this different.., why is this rebellion praiseworthy?

Or the reformation for that fact. If Government and Authority is established by God then we must conclude that God placed the Vatican in a position of power. Using your own words abuse of power is not suffice for rebellion so again., why is this rebellion praiseworthy?

You must maintain consistency to show yourself as posing a valid debate yet you cannot
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#15
#15
yaright said:
I suppose, it you want to play the victim, you don't need to carefully consider the answers you personally asked for in your Thread. Do you want me to feel sorry for you?
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Did I ask you to feel sorry for me? It is obvious with your comments you have a certain disdain for the indigenous your people have trodden under foot. I can tell this because this is not the point of the topic but you cant move past it so please do not jack my thread and kindly remove yourself unless you wish to discuss Romans 13
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#16
#16
CrimsonFlames said:
Did I ask you to feel sorry for me? It is obvious with your comments you have a certain disdain for the indigenous your people have trodden under foot. I can tell this because this is not the point of the topic but you cant move past it so please do not jack my thread and kindly remove yourself unless you wish to discuss Romans 13
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omg, your playing the part of a victim. You asked for an answer to a question; unless of course your thread was deceit from the beginning
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#17
#17
yaright said:
omg, your playing the part of a victim. You asked for an answer to a question; unless of course your thread was deceit from the beginning
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Romans 13!
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#19
#19
CrimsonFlames said:
No.., what happened to the aboriginals and the indians is not the concern here neither however they are the best examples to demonstrate and expose the lies of the Roman Imperialism that you twist scripture to maintain

Fine then., lets take another example. Christians are quick to condemn any notion of civil unrest within western countries whilst they praise the revolution of Libya and condemn Gaddafi so the US can instill Mubarak as a leader who is a more willing US puppet.

Why is this uprising different?

Or I could take the example of the US Civil War.., the people rose up against what they perceived as unfair taxing., however it was still a rebellion none the less and they refused to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's

Why was this different.., why is this rebellion praiseworthy?

Or the reformation for that fact. If Government and Authority is established by God then we must conclude that God placed the Vatican in a position of power. Using your own words abuse of power is not suffice for rebellion so again., why is this rebellion praiseworthy?

You must maintain consistency to show yourself as posing a valid debate yet you cannot
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bro, i twisted scripture? ok?!?
i condemned? ok?!?

you havent started this thread to share views but expound your own position and it would seem go offensive with anyone who doesnt.

I dont care about this world, its run how its run. Go thru scripture, good kings who did right bad kings who did wrong, when israel slid who did God use to lead them into captivity. its not about recent history, its the way the world runs. twisted scripture?

be consistant in this, God is sovereign, Jesus is Lord

abc christianity:)
 
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CrimsonFlames

Guest
#20
#20
You did not answer why one example was good and the other bad? What is the precept which determines this
 
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