Romans 7 man not saved.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

sounds to me like many here are still in bondage to sin.

Israel made the mistake of ignoring Christ and trying to keep the law (romans 7) and failed.

You seem to do the opposite, you talk of Christ but ignore the sin and thus you fail and end up in the same boat as Israel (romans 7)

Both of these are in bondage.

But the truth is in Christ we move form Romans 7 to Romans 8 which is free in Christ from the condition of bondage in Romans 7.

Come on guys this is the greatest news ever. Jesus actually saves from sin. You can actually be free in Christ from bondage to sin. Sin no longer has dominion in Christ.

If you are still dominated by sin then you are not free.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

Atwood said:

I would agree that what you said is
'=

1 John 2 tells us that those who are in the Body of Christ continue there & do not depart.

Let me urge you who write off the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, to actually trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior.

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]

I was talking to someone else who brought up OSAS. which is a little off topic so I did not go in deep.

Topic for another post. SO don't worry you do not understand the premise of this post of mine and again not for this post. cheers mate.

Kerry · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

He was writing a letter to the Roman Church. We was not talking about pre Damascus road. When He said I He meant recent and not years before. If He were, then why not give the full testimony.

Paul was talking about being a christian and trying to live by the law. He was taught law from his mothers knee. He was the Pharisee of Pharisee's and in line to be High priest. The law was his life. But on the road to Damascus He found Jesus Praise God. Then tried to serve God by keeping the law and found that it brought only sin and captivating sin. The cross was revealed to Paul and He in turn revealed it to us.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

Kerry said:

He was writing a letter to the Roman Church. We was not talking about pre Damascus road. When He said I He meant recent and not years before. If He were, then why not give the full testimony.

Paul was talking about being a christian and trying to live by the law. He was taught law from his mothers knee. He was the Pharisee of Pharisee's and in line to be High priest. The law was his life. But on the road to Damascus He found Jesus Praise God. Then tried to serve God by keeping the law and found that it brought only sin and captivating sin. The cross was revealed to Paul and He in turn revealed it to us.

hmm I like this but I am confused because this is in line with what I am saying.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

Do you think Paul was trying to live by the law at the time he wrote ROmans?

Because that is what Romans 7 man is doing.

peacefulbeliever · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

I am free from the bondage of sin - I may still sin but I am not under bondage of sin - therefore I am free from the bondage of sin.

Come on gotime - you know you still sin . . . . as we all do.

O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death? - Spiritually we have been delivered but it will not be a literal reality until we are either raised in incorruption or we put on immortality -

Kerry · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

Paul was saved before He wrote this and saved before this happened to him. Ask yourself why would a pharisee say that the law caused him to sin. They loved the law and the law was there salvation their minds. I meant they used the law to kill Jesus did they not. Saul was a stickler for the law, held the coats of the men that stoned Stephen. Why would He say what he said if he had not already been saved?

Nick01 · Jul 20, 2014

I think the biggest problem I always run into when I hear this interpretation is verse 22. In what sense can or does an unsaved person, who is in slave to sin, delight in the law of God in their inner being? I like th attempt to break it down in the OP, the only problem, though, is it I think it spends a little too much time looking at other parts of Romans and other books, and not enough time actually dealing with the whole text of chapter 7.

Kerry · Jul 20, 2014

Nick01 said:

What part of the bible can you read without reference to other parts. Man people are screwed up because they take one or two verses and run with it. It spurned the name it and claim Gospel which built churches all over America.

SolidGround · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

I also see the problem.

You have taken it upon yourself to change the meaning of these verses to fit your theology. Paul does not use past tense say "O wretched man that I was", but used present tense. You mentioning other examples actually solidifies your own misinterpretation.

Please at least try to submit to the Scriptures, rather than forcing them to submit to you.
We have all fallen into this trap at one point or another.
The only way out is to embrace humility, and question one's foundations against the Word.

Nick01 · Jul 20, 2014

Kerry said:

But that's my point. Proof texting from chapter 7 and ignoring the rest of Scripture is just as bad, but not any worse, than bringing in all these other texts but not actually dealing first and foremost with the totally of the text under discussion. It's not a question of either or - it has to be both.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

peacefulbeliever said:

you said "I am free from the bondage of sin - I may still sin but I am not under bondage of sin - therefore I am free from the bondage of sin."

What do you mean you still sin. Do you mean you do things you know are wrong? because If you are free then nothing is making you do it. so why do it?

you said "Come on gotime - you know you still sin . . . . as we all do."

How does this inform the topic? Do you assume because you still do that everyone must?

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

but don't you know:

2Pe_2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations...

and again:

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

You don't have to give into temptation. God can deliver you from it.

Luk 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

amen.

You said "O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death? - Spiritually we have been delivered but it will not be a literal reality until we are either raised in incorruption or we put on immortality -"

First the only thing getting changed here is our physical bodies not our characters.
Jesus delivered us on the cross, so you can be delivered now by Faith.

those who sin are slaves as Jesus said:

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

you can't be free and slave at the same time. no wonder people don't want to become Christians they see them struggle with the same sins they do and say whats the point.

Funny how people believe that Jesus can heal a leaper or cripple or even bring back the dead. or even create something from nothing. but then think He can't keep you from sinning.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

Kerry said:

Because he is appealing to those who are like he was. those who are still under law. He is reasoning with them saying you still sin even though you try not to. the law can't save you but Jesus can.

SolidGround · Jul 20, 2014

I don't agree with Kerry on everything,
but in this he is very founded in the Word.

The Word shows us that as long as we are in these bodies there will be trials, temptations, failures, pain, and death.
BUT! these will all wash away upon the revealing of our salvation at the 2nd coming of our Lord!

We still live in bodies of death, do we not?
Unless you believe that your body is incorruptible/immortal now that you have been saved?

Kerry · Jul 20, 2014

Go, read the bible. It say's that we are free from the power of sin. That means that we are no longer ruled by sin it doe's not mean that we will not sin. That's what God told Cain

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

SolidGround said:

Then you run into the same problem.

can both of these be true at once?

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

and,

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

can Paul be captive to the law of sin and death and at the same time be free from the law of sin and death?

crossnote · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

Well I believe a Christian can lapse into law keeping in their own strength...sorta like falling from grace as Paul wared the Galatians.

SolidGround · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

Then you run into the same problem.

can both of these be true at once?

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

and,

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

can Paul be captive to the law of sin and death and at the same time be free from the law of sin and death?

yes, absolutely. As another put it, this is the war we wage.

gotime · Jul 20, 2014

Ok have your weak gospel.

I once believed as you do but I will not go back there, constantly falling into the same temptations and sins over and over.

Kerry · Jul 20, 2014

gotime said:

No you can't, Paul was looking to the law as his salvation, because that is what he was taught from a child. Jesus set him free from the law. But he could not compute that in his mind. So he sought the law and found it to be death in other words he could only sin by faith in the law. Paul returned his faith to the work of the cross and the sin nature was turned off and he rested in in Christ.

Romans 7 man not saved.

Senior Member

Senior Member

Kerry

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Kerry

Guest

Senior Member

Kerry

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Kerry

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Kerry

Guest