Romans 8:1-2, is conditional
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I've come to trust the faithfulness of God \o/.
Your opinion. Ammunition? In discourse with you, your own words, as they condemn you. In discourse in general on the BDF, the Gospel, the Good News, with contextual Scripture.
No conumdrum, PeterJens. I recognize manipulation and inconsistent thought processes. You are a double-minded man, unstable in all your ways. You take what others post here and distort and twist them to further your inconsistent pontifications. Many of us have observed this and have written detailed posts articulating when and where you distort and twist, yet you continue on in denial, while admitting here that you have a memory problem. That would put the 'issue' and 'problem' in your lap, not in ours.
How or where or for how long you were churched has nothing to do with the dysfunction you demonstrate here.
That is true for those not in Christ.
That is not true for those who are in Christ.
17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. (from 1 Jn. 4)
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)
New Covenant Scripture does not support your view.
Think about what you are saying: That abuse is terrible, yet God would do the same to us, His children. In another thread, you claim that God kills His children!
The lake of fire is not for God's children, but for those who refuse to receive Christ. You blur lines where they ought not to be blurred.
And I have to ask - what are you talking about?!
My issue is your constant misrepresentation of what I and others post as well as your misrepresentation of God and His Good News, the Gospel.
As far as 'issues', there are no deep, dark issues. God has protected me and loved me well, as well as putting others in my life who have loved me well. I walk in confidence and boldness not of myself, but because of who I am in Christ and His faithfulness in my life. Mine is a testimony not of the hard things I've had to endure, but of the faithfulness of God to love and protect me - and beyond that - to grow me in His love and grace.
Nope.
And PeterJens has slipped back into his alternate universe, making assumptions, asking obscure questions that have no bearing on the actual conversation.
-JGIG
Your opinion. Ammunition? In discourse with you, your own words, as they condemn you. In discourse in general on the BDF, the Gospel, the Good News, with contextual Scripture.
No conumdrum, PeterJens. I recognize manipulation and inconsistent thought processes. You are a double-minded man, unstable in all your ways. You take what others post here and distort and twist them to further your inconsistent pontifications. Many of us have observed this and have written detailed posts articulating when and where you distort and twist, yet you continue on in denial, while admitting here that you have a memory problem. That would put the 'issue' and 'problem' in your lap, not in ours.
How or where or for how long you were churched has nothing to do with the dysfunction you demonstrate here.
That is true for those not in Christ.
That is not true for those who are in Christ.
17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. (from 1 Jn. 4)
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)
New Covenant Scripture does not support your view.
Think about what you are saying: That abuse is terrible, yet God would do the same to us, His children. In another thread, you claim that God kills His children!
The lake of fire is not for God's children, but for those who refuse to receive Christ. You blur lines where they ought not to be blurred.
And I have to ask - what are you talking about?!
My issue is your constant misrepresentation of what I and others post as well as your misrepresentation of God and His Good News, the Gospel.
As far as 'issues', there are no deep, dark issues. God has protected me and loved me well, as well as putting others in my life who have loved me well. I walk in confidence and boldness not of myself, but because of who I am in Christ and His faithfulness in my life. Mine is a testimony not of the hard things I've had to endure, but of the faithfulness of God to love and protect me - and beyond that - to grow me in His love and grace.
Nope.
And PeterJens has slipped back into his alternate universe, making assumptions, asking obscure questions that have no bearing on the actual conversation.
6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. (from Col. 2)
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. (from Col. 2)
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. (from Heb. 2)
-JGIG
Now, Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. Your servant is here among the people you have chosen, a great people, too numerous to count or number. So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?
1 King 3:7-9
As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.
Exodus 19:19
I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
John 16:33
1 King 3:7-9
As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.
Exodus 19:19
I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
John 16:33
I find your positions interesting.
You accuse me of miss-representing people and positions but not saying what.
The real point here is we are closer in thought than you think.
You say God does not do this or that.
I see God has brought judgement on people. I see verses that warn us about such
judgement.
You say I am miss-representing the gospel, but not how. It appears to be you want
to deny judgement and the walk, and part of what it means to be saved.
Now on the subject of judgement you move people into the not saved camp if God
judges them and they are part of the body of Christ.
Equally you will say I preach works, while you preach fruit.
It gets rather pedantic because we both preach fruit, but you actually preach you
are saved whether you have fruit or not, where I would say fruit shows the work
in your heart.
What to me is strange how being so close in faith with minor differences is turned
into I am twisting everything and miss-representing things.
It sounds like you want to make me into something I am not.
So I ask myself, why? Why is such effort made about these points, when we walk in
love and are set free from judgement and condemnation?
Maybe because the HG preachers blame the church failure and their faith problems on
legalists who are everybody not taking the same extreme view of morality.
So this is simply where I am. I must be a problem to cause such effort on your part to
say so little. But thanks for the effort.
For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
Heb 10:30
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
Col 3:11
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Rom 16:20
You accuse me of miss-representing people and positions but not saying what.
The real point here is we are closer in thought than you think.
You say God does not do this or that.
I see God has brought judgement on people. I see verses that warn us about such
judgement.
You say I am miss-representing the gospel, but not how. It appears to be you want
to deny judgement and the walk, and part of what it means to be saved.
Now on the subject of judgement you move people into the not saved camp if God
judges them and they are part of the body of Christ.
Equally you will say I preach works, while you preach fruit.
It gets rather pedantic because we both preach fruit, but you actually preach you
are saved whether you have fruit or not, where I would say fruit shows the work
in your heart.
What to me is strange how being so close in faith with minor differences is turned
into I am twisting everything and miss-representing things.
It sounds like you want to make me into something I am not.
So I ask myself, why? Why is such effort made about these points, when we walk in
love and are set free from judgement and condemnation?
Maybe because the HG preachers blame the church failure and their faith problems on
legalists who are everybody not taking the same extreme view of morality.
So this is simply where I am. I must be a problem to cause such effort on your part to
say so little. But thanks for the effort.
For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
Heb 10:30
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
Col 3:11
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Rom 16:20
Proverbs 21:24
New International Version
The proud and arrogant person--"Mocker" is his name-- behaves with insolent fury.
New Living Translation
Mockers are proud and haughty; they act with boundless arrogance.
English Standard Version
“Scoffer” is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.
New American Standard Bible
"Proud," "Haughty," "Scoffer," are his names, Who acts with insolent pride.
King James Bible
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The proud and arrogant person, named "Mocker," acts with excessive pride.
International Standard Version
The names "Proud," "Arrogant," and "Mocker" fit whoever acts with presumptuous conceit.
NET Bible
A proud and arrogant person, whose name is "Scoffer," acts with overbearing pride.
New Heart English Bible
The proud and haughty man, "scoffer" is his name; he works in the arrogance of pride.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
An insolent one whose name is mighty does evil in his wrath.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
An arrogant, conceited person is called a mocker. His arrogance knows no limits.
JPS Tanakh 1917
A proud and haughty man, scorner is his name, Even he that dealeth in overbearing pride.
New American Standard 1977
“Proud,” “Haughty,” “Scoffer,” are his names,
Who acts with insolent pride.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who deals in proud wrath.
King James 2000 Bible
Proud and haughty scoffer is his name, who deals in arrogant pride.
American King James Version
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who deals in proud wrath.
American Standard Version
The proud and haughty man, scoffer is his name; He worketh in the arrogance of pride.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The proud and the arrogant is called ignorant, who in anger worketh pride.
Darby Bible Translation
Proud, arrogant, scorner is his name who dealeth in proud wrath.
English Revised Version
The proud and haughty man, scorner is his name, he worketh in the arrogance of pride.
Webster's Bible Translation
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath.
World English Bible
The proud and haughty man, "scoffer" is his name; he works in the arrogance of pride.
Young's Literal Translation
Proud, haughty, scorner is his name, Who is working in the wrath of pride.
New International Version
The proud and arrogant person--"Mocker" is his name-- behaves with insolent fury.
New Living Translation
Mockers are proud and haughty; they act with boundless arrogance.
English Standard Version
“Scoffer” is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.
New American Standard Bible
"Proud," "Haughty," "Scoffer," are his names, Who acts with insolent pride.
King James Bible
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The proud and arrogant person, named "Mocker," acts with excessive pride.
International Standard Version
The names "Proud," "Arrogant," and "Mocker" fit whoever acts with presumptuous conceit.
NET Bible
A proud and arrogant person, whose name is "Scoffer," acts with overbearing pride.
New Heart English Bible
The proud and haughty man, "scoffer" is his name; he works in the arrogance of pride.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
An insolent one whose name is mighty does evil in his wrath.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
An arrogant, conceited person is called a mocker. His arrogance knows no limits.
JPS Tanakh 1917
A proud and haughty man, scorner is his name, Even he that dealeth in overbearing pride.
New American Standard 1977
“Proud,” “Haughty,” “Scoffer,” are his names,
Who acts with insolent pride.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who deals in proud wrath.
King James 2000 Bible
Proud and haughty scoffer is his name, who deals in arrogant pride.
American King James Version
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who deals in proud wrath.
American Standard Version
The proud and haughty man, scoffer is his name; He worketh in the arrogance of pride.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The proud and the arrogant is called ignorant, who in anger worketh pride.
Darby Bible Translation
Proud, arrogant, scorner is his name who dealeth in proud wrath.
English Revised Version
The proud and haughty man, scorner is his name, he worketh in the arrogance of pride.
Webster's Bible Translation
Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath.
World English Bible
The proud and haughty man, "scoffer" is his name; he works in the arrogance of pride.
Young's Literal Translation
Proud, haughty, scorner is his name, Who is working in the wrath of pride.
How long will you who are simple love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
Prov 1:22
He mocks proud mockers but shows favor to the humble and oppressed.
Prov 3:34
Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults; whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
Prov 9:7
Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
Prov 9:8
The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.
Prov 14:6
Mockers resent correction, so they avoid the wise.
Prov 15:12
When a mocker is punished, the simple gain wisdom; by paying attention to the wise they get knowledge.
Prov 21:11
Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended.
Prov 22:10
Please read and understand, I have no problem with correction, but to correct
you have to be understood, and to be understood you have to actually make
valid points.
It does not get simpler than this, unless in truth you are the mocker yourself
and have not realised it.
Prov 1:22
He mocks proud mockers but shows favor to the humble and oppressed.
Prov 3:34
Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults; whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
Prov 9:7
Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
Prov 9:8
The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.
Prov 14:6
Mockers resent correction, so they avoid the wise.
Prov 15:12
When a mocker is punished, the simple gain wisdom; by paying attention to the wise they get knowledge.
Prov 21:11
Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended.
Prov 22:10
Please read and understand, I have no problem with correction, but to correct
you have to be understood, and to be understood you have to actually make
valid points.
It does not get simpler than this, unless in truth you are the mocker yourself
and have not realised it.
I do have a query.
When I came to cc, the group in the "gifts" area were very defensive.
It seems many condemn any signs or gifts as works of the enemy. You have to forgive
me but this is as wrong as saying anything spiritual is ok.
Now when I spoke to some it appears our theology is almost identical but again another
group appeared, the legalists. So if you show any sign of this group, dig and you will find
the tell tell signs of heresy.
But I represent a 3rd strand. This strand simply says taking love seriously and openness
is the hardest thing anyone can do, and you cannot fake it. It is like a preacher or pastor
can only bring his church along to the point of openness he has achieved. And often that
is not very far.
Now I am charismatic, baptisted in the Holy Spirit, a tongue speaker, one who has had
his moments, but still, in the end, I wonder what all this strife is about.
Now I hope some of you know what I am speaking about. I hope this because you claim
to know the same Lord as me. But maybe you do not see the heart of a believer just the
shirt they are wearing, and you are sure there lies a double minded evil man wanting to
deceive me, and I must run him through. Is this what I am to you? Really?
I ask simply because we are called not to judge or condemn, to try and relate and understand
one another, to be encouraging and a blessing in the Lord, because in the world there
are many real enemies. So this all makes me wonder what type of christianity is this that
attacks its own, while not realising what it stands for.
When I came to cc, the group in the "gifts" area were very defensive.
It seems many condemn any signs or gifts as works of the enemy. You have to forgive
me but this is as wrong as saying anything spiritual is ok.
Now when I spoke to some it appears our theology is almost identical but again another
group appeared, the legalists. So if you show any sign of this group, dig and you will find
the tell tell signs of heresy.
But I represent a 3rd strand. This strand simply says taking love seriously and openness
is the hardest thing anyone can do, and you cannot fake it. It is like a preacher or pastor
can only bring his church along to the point of openness he has achieved. And often that
is not very far.
Now I am charismatic, baptisted in the Holy Spirit, a tongue speaker, one who has had
his moments, but still, in the end, I wonder what all this strife is about.
Now I hope some of you know what I am speaking about. I hope this because you claim
to know the same Lord as me. But maybe you do not see the heart of a believer just the
shirt they are wearing, and you are sure there lies a double minded evil man wanting to
deceive me, and I must run him through. Is this what I am to you? Really?
I ask simply because we are called not to judge or condemn, to try and relate and understand
one another, to be encouraging and a blessing in the Lord, because in the world there
are many real enemies. So this all makes me wonder what type of christianity is this that
attacks its own, while not realising what it stands for.
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Now a fine proposition, except there are prophets in the church in the book of acts.
What the prophetic ministry appears to be as i have seen it is to encourage and touch
believers with words that stir and revitalise there focus. Certainly I have been encouraged
this way receiving from others rather than giving in a prophetic manner.
What the prophetic ministry appears to be as i have seen it is to encourage and touch
believers with words that stir and revitalise there focus. Certainly I have been encouraged
this way receiving from others rather than giving in a prophetic manner.
G
It is completely amazing that you can't identify it. And you have been told......repeatedly.
But on the other hand........
1 Cor 2:14~~New American Standard Bible
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
And I am not saying you are not saved. You just have the Spirit quenched.
And the problem stems from not believing the Spirit in this matter..........eternal security.
New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
New American Standard Bible
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
But on the other hand........
1 Cor 2:14~~New American Standard Bible
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
And I am not saying you are not saved. You just have the Spirit quenched.
And the problem stems from not believing the Spirit in this matter..........eternal security.
New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
New American Standard Bible
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
That's not prophecy sir. That's what those in the BODY are supposed to be doing. Serving one another....encouraging, strengthening so the weak are built up and none are made lame but that all will persevere and press on til we all reach the unity of the FAITH which would be and should be directed in and on HIM
Let me put it simply. Ones own sense of being saved or not does not make you saved or
otherwise. There will always be a sense of insecurity. For me personally the Lord speaks
to my heart and encourages me. Walking with peace in our lives.
When the peace leaves, which it does at times, I wonder at what I am doing and how the
Lord is encouraging me. But to date the Lord returns with His encouragement.
In the end we stand in the Lord on faith and trust in His word and promises.
His promises honour this stand. Beyond that it is speculation.
otherwise. There will always be a sense of insecurity. For me personally the Lord speaks
to my heart and encourages me. Walking with peace in our lives.
When the peace leaves, which it does at times, I wonder at what I am doing and how the
Lord is encouraging me. But to date the Lord returns with His encouragement.
In the end we stand in the Lord on faith and trust in His word and promises.
His promises honour this stand. Beyond that it is speculation.