ROMANS 9 IN CONTEXT

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Sep 9, 2018
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#1
“(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)” (Romans 9:11).

We are going to refute the teaching of Calvinism as supposedly found in Romans 9.

Romans 9:11 mentions the purpose of God according to election. Unconditional election is one of the five points of Calvinism. Calvinism is a doctrine that teaches, among other things, that God chose, from the foundation of the world, who would be saved and who would be damned. Those he chose to save are called the elect and their election is unconditional. Unconditional election as taught in Calvinism is not according to Scripture, as you will see.

Always remember, when studying a chapter that seems to teach something contrary to the rest of the New Testament, to be careful in handling the passage. Such is the case with Romans 9.

Something about Romans 9 is peculiar.

God’s election in Romans 9:11 is that he would fulfill his promise to Abraham through Abraham’s literal seed. God’s choices for this fulfillment were Abraham in Romans 9:7, Isaac in Romans 9:7, Jacob in Romans 9:13 and Jesus in Romans 9:5, 33. That’s the line of the Jews through whom God would fulfill his purpose. Thus, the purpose of God according to election was not through Ishmael and his descendants, and it was not through Esau and his descendants. That’s obvious in this passage and all through the Old Testament.

Now, still addressing God’s purpose according to election as it concerns Israel (Romans 9:11), look at Romans 9:27, “a remnant shall be saved.”

This shows us that there will be enough Jews left at the end of the Tribulation to fulfill the promises to Abraham (Romans 9:7-8) so that the purpose of God according to election will stand (Romans 9:11). Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-27), they will become the ruling nation of the world (Isaiah 60:10-12), Jesus will be their king and king of the world sitting on the throne of David (Revelation 11:15, Luke 1:31-33), and the New Covenant promised to Israel will be fulfilled (Jeremiah 31:31-37).

Nothing any man can do down here will change that.

That purpose is fixed for Israel. All of this happens because the “purpose of God according to election” stands in spite of the fact that many individual Jews have rejected Jesus Christ (Romans 9:32-33). It was these Jews for whom Paul was so burdened that he could wish to be accursed (Romans 9:1-4). Their rejection will not keep the promises of God from being fulfilled.

Romans 9:1-29 really has nothing to do, then, with INDIVIDUAL salvation. This passage concerns Israel as a NATION of descendants from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The nation is made up of lots of individuals; “the number of the children of Israel [shall] be as the sand of the sea,” Romans 9:27. And of all these individuals only a “remnant shall be saved.” Hence, they were not individually elected, even as we are not individually elected.

You see, ever since the cross of Christ, any man that wants to get in on salvation and the mercy of God must have faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 9:30-33) whether he is a Jew or a Gentile (Romans 9:24; Acts 15:11). If he puts his faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary (Romans 10:4, 9-10, 13), then he becomes a child of God (Romans 9:8). At that point, God extends to him the benefits of the promises made to Abraham (Romans 4) which include eternal life.

That’s why Paul was willing to be accursed for his brethren, his kinsman (Romans 9:1-4).

He knew that they were passing up what God had promised to Abraham by election (Galatians 3:14-29) because they were rejecting Jesus Christ. Think about it, if God had already elected some of the INDIVIDUAL Jews and had already condemned the rest of the INDIVIDUAL Jews, then why in the world would Paul want to be accursed for them? If election is predestination to individual salvation, Paul could not have changed a thing by being accursed for them. His curse would have been utterly foolish.

Looking back, we know that “salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22) and that Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). Yet, many of these literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went to hell (Matthew 23:33, Lk 16:19-23, etc). That’s because they neglected the salvation that was offered to them in Jesus (Mark 10:17-27 for example; Hebrews 2:3). And that’s the fate of every man who rejects Jesus Christ as his Savior (John 3:18, 36).

They didn’t wind up in hell because God predestinated them to go there. That would be completely contrary to his will (II Peter 3:9).

Furthermore, since God said that Gentiles would get in on the promises, as well (Romans 9:24-26), God’s purposes according to election stand for us by faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 9:32, Romans 10:4, Galatians 3:26-29). That’s what is going on in Romans 9.

Now concerning some of the specifics in the chapter, they are as follows:

Romans 9:11 – neither Jacob nor Esau could have affected what God had already chosen for them. With God’s foreknowledge (I Peter 1:2) of what Esau and Jacob would do, he chose to continue the line of Christ and the promises through Jacob not Esau.

Romans 9:14-16 – Esau and Isaac were the ones who “willeth;” Isaac wanted to bless Esau and Esau wanted to kill Jacob and cut off his blessing. That didn’t happen. Jacob is the one who “runneth.” After running away, he still made it back to the land that God had promised Abraham (though it took him 20 years). You see, God had a purpose concerning those boys, and that purpose was fulfilled despite what they wanted to do or did.

Romans 9:19-21 – God does have power over the CLAY. He raised up Pharaoh (Romans 9:17). In his foreknowledge, he knew exactly how Pharaoh would handle the words of God preached by Moses and Aaron (Exodus 3:19-20). God knew that this Pharaoh was the right king who would give God the opportunity to use every one of those plagues and show his power in Egypt for the entire world to know.

But God did not predestinate Esau to hell. He did not predestinate Pharaoh to hell. God simply exercised his power “over the CLAY,” (Romans 9:21). The decision whether to follow the Lord or not was still up to the INDIVIDUALS. Pharaoh chose to reject God (Exodus 5:2, he professed to be an agnostic) and Esau chose to sell his birthright (Genesis 25:31-33). Those individual decisions of the heart were made by the men themselves and not by God.

Therefore, election in Romans 9 has nothing to do with Calvinism or an individual being elected to SALVATION by God. God extends mercy to any person who will put his faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law (Romans 9:30-33; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 2:16; etc).

Remember, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I don’t expect that you will be able to convince a Calvinist who wants to believe in his interpretation of these verses. When a man has already made up his mind that he is right in his doctrine he will argue until you see it his way or he will just turn you off. That’s too bad. However, we don’t want to discourage you from trying to show him the truth. I mainly pray that he doesn’t poison you with his doctrine.

I am not seeking to convince any Calvinist to give up his views—he has free will to decide what he wills to believe. My audience, hopefully, are those that are still willing to consider the Scriptures alone and let the Holy Spirit of God help them to know what to believe.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him” (I John 2:27).
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#3
It is not hateful and vile to expose someone's false beliefs. It is said that the Holy Spirit makes people mad before He makes them glad. That simply means that conviction is no fun when it is pointing out our error, but once a person gets right with God and let's Him do the instructing, the peace of God moves in.

It also isn't a pleasant experience to admit that we have been wrong about something--I remember the days just before I was saved and how I struggled with admitting the errors of Mormonism. My wife and I both went through that. Today she is physically seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus! If someone had not reached us with the unpleasant truth she would likely be suffering in hell as I type.

Praise God for His loving kindness toward the children of men.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,010
337
83
#4
“(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)” (Romans 9:11).

We are going to refute the teaching of Calvinism as supposedly found in Romans 9.

Romans 9:11 mentions the purpose of God according to election. Unconditional election is one of the five points of Calvinism. Calvinism is a doctrine that teaches, among other things, that God chose, from the foundation of the world, who would be saved and who would be damned. Those he chose to save are called the elect and their election is unconditional. Unconditional election as taught in Calvinism is not according to Scripture, as you will see.

Always remember, when studying a chapter that seems to teach something contrary to the rest of the New Testament, to be careful in handling the passage. Such is the case with Romans 9.

Something about Romans 9 is peculiar.

God’s election in Romans 9:11 is that he would fulfill his promise to Abraham through Abraham’s literal seed. God’s choices for this fulfillment were Abraham in Romans 9:7, Isaac in Romans 9:7, Jacob in Romans 9:13 and Jesus in Romans 9:5, 33. That’s the line of the Jews through whom God would fulfill his purpose. Thus, the purpose of God according to election was not through Ishmael and his descendants, and it was not through Esau and his descendants. That’s obvious in this passage and all through the Old Testament.

Now, still addressing God’s purpose according to election as it concerns Israel (Romans 9:11), look at Romans 9:27, “a remnant shall be saved.”

This shows us that there will be enough Jews left at the end of the Tribulation to fulfill the promises to Abraham (Romans 9:7-8) so that the purpose of God according to election will stand (Romans 9:11). Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-27), they will become the ruling nation of the world (Isaiah 60:10-12), Jesus will be their king and king of the world sitting on the throne of David (Revelation 11:15, Luke 1:31-33), and the New Covenant promised to Israel will be fulfilled (Jeremiah 31:31-37).

Nothing any man can do down here will change that.

That purpose is fixed for Israel. All of this happens because the “purpose of God according to election” stands in spite of the fact that many individual Jews have rejected Jesus Christ (Romans 9:32-33). It was these Jews for whom Paul was so burdened that he could wish to be accursed (Romans 9:1-4). Their rejection will not keep the promises of God from being fulfilled.

Romans 9:1-29 really has nothing to do, then, with INDIVIDUAL salvation. This passage concerns Israel as a NATION of descendants from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The nation is made up of lots of individuals; “the number of the children of Israel [shall] be as the sand of the sea,” Romans 9:27. And of all these individuals only a “remnant shall be saved.” Hence, they were not individually elected, even as we are not individually elected.

You see, ever since the cross of Christ, any man that wants to get in on salvation and the mercy of God must have faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 9:30-33) whether he is a Jew or a Gentile (Romans 9:24; Acts 15:11). If he puts his faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary (Romans 10:4, 9-10, 13), then he becomes a child of God (Romans 9:8). At that point, God extends to him the benefits of the promises made to Abraham (Romans 4) which include eternal life.

That’s why Paul was willing to be accursed for his brethren, his kinsman (Romans 9:1-4).

He knew that they were passing up what God had promised to Abraham by election (Galatians 3:14-29) because they were rejecting Jesus Christ. Think about it, if God had already elected some of the INDIVIDUAL Jews and had already condemned the rest of the INDIVIDUAL Jews, then why in the world would Paul want to be accursed for them? If election is predestination to individual salvation, Paul could not have changed a thing by being accursed for them. His curse would have been utterly foolish.

Looking back, we know that “salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22) and that Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). Yet, many of these literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went to hell (Matthew 23:33, Lk 16:19-23, etc). That’s because they neglected the salvation that was offered to them in Jesus (Mark 10:17-27 for example; Hebrews 2:3). And that’s the fate of every man who rejects Jesus Christ as his Savior (John 3:18, 36).

They didn’t wind up in hell because God predestinated them to go there. That would be completely contrary to his will (II Peter 3:9).

Furthermore, since God said that Gentiles would get in on the promises, as well (Romans 9:24-26), God’s purposes according to election stand for us by faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 9:32, Romans 10:4, Galatians 3:26-29). That’s what is going on in Romans 9.

Now concerning some of the specifics in the chapter, they are as follows:

Romans 9:11 – neither Jacob nor Esau could have affected what God had already chosen for them. With God’s foreknowledge (I Peter 1:2) of what Esau and Jacob would do, he chose to continue the line of Christ and the promises through Jacob not Esau.

Romans 9:14-16 – Esau and Isaac were the ones who “willeth;” Isaac wanted to bless Esau and Esau wanted to kill Jacob and cut off his blessing. That didn’t happen. Jacob is the one who “runneth.” After running away, he still made it back to the land that God had promised Abraham (though it took him 20 years). You see, God had a purpose concerning those boys, and that purpose was fulfilled despite what they wanted to do or did.

Romans 9:19-21 – God does have power over the CLAY. He raised up Pharaoh (Romans 9:17). In his foreknowledge, he knew exactly how Pharaoh would handle the words of God preached by Moses and Aaron (Exodus 3:19-20). God knew that this Pharaoh was the right king who would give God the opportunity to use every one of those plagues and show his power in Egypt for the entire world to know.

But God did not predestinate Esau to hell. He did not predestinate Pharaoh to hell. God simply exercised his power “over the CLAY,” (Romans 9:21). The decision whether to follow the Lord or not was still up to the INDIVIDUALS. Pharaoh chose to reject God (Exodus 5:2, he professed to be an agnostic) and Esau chose to sell his birthright (Genesis 25:31-33). Those individual decisions of the heart were made by the men themselves and not by God.

Therefore, election in Romans 9 has nothing to do with Calvinism or an individual being elected to SALVATION by God. God extends mercy to any person who will put his faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law (Romans 9:30-33; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 2:16; etc).

Remember, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I don’t expect that you will be able to convince a Calvinist who wants to believe in his interpretation of these verses. When a man has already made up his mind that he is right in his doctrine he will argue until you see it his way or he will just turn you off. That’s too bad. However, we don’t want to discourage you from trying to show him the truth. I mainly pray that he doesn’t poison you with his doctrine.

I am not seeking to convince any Calvinist to give up his views—he has free will to decide what he wills to believe. My audience, hopefully, are those that are still willing to consider the Scriptures alone and let the Holy Spirit of God help them to know what to believe.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him” (I John 2:27).
God did not choose any man as his elect according to God's foreknowledge that he saw that they would choose God. God, by his foreknowledge, saw that no man would seek him, that they had all gone back, that they all were filthy, and that none would do good, no, not one (Ps 53:2-3). That is why God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and had Jesus to make them holy and without blame by dying for their sins as a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance. Jacob is a type of God's elect. God even changed Jacob's name to be called Israel (Gen 33:28). There are many,many, scriptures that talk about Israel, when in actuality, it is talking about Jacob. You can not explain God's elect away that easy.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,954
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#5
The context of romans 9 is found in the first few verses.

1. God chose Isreal for a specific purpose
2. Isreal failed in that purpose

3. Did God make a mistake chosing Israel?

Chapters 9 - 11 is pauls answers to that question.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
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Illinois
#6
The context of romans 9 is found in the first few verses.

1. God chose Isreal for a specific purpose
2. Isreal failed in that purpose

3. Did God make a mistake chosing Israel?

Chapters 9 - 11 is pauls answers to that question.
God told me that He was perfectly satisfied how things were going before that John Calvin showed up. It's bad enough that He has to deal with cultists, but Calvinists and Baptist briders are a whole other deal.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#7
They didn’t wind up in hell because God predestinated them to go there. That would be completely contrary to his will (II Peter 3:9).
So did God tell you why that they wind up in hell? I know it is written in Romans 1:32 the following; Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Yet it is written in 1 Tim 2:4, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
God told me that He was perfectly satisfied how things were going before that John Calvin showed up.
Did God happen to mention what happens when a person presumes to speak a word in his name? (See: Deut 18:20)

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,433
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#8
God’s election in Romans 9:11 is that he would fulfill his promise to Abraham through Abraham’s literal seed...
I am in full agreement, and would simply add that Christians should take Romans 9 through 11 as one unit, and that the Abrahamic Covenant will be fulfilled after the second coming of Christ. The connection to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the patriarchs or "fathers" of Israel is found here (Rom 11:28): As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
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Illinois
#9
I am in full agreement, and would simply add that Christians should take Romans 9 through 11 as one unit, and that the Abrahamic Covenant will be fulfilled after the second coming of Christ. The connection to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the patriarchs or "fathers" of Israel is found here (Rom 11:28): As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
I find it amazing that for some the Scriptures aren't enough but that they need to search for some hidden, deep, dark meaning . . . and the idea of a capricious God picking and choosing who to send to hell is beyond anything I could ever imagine. In 42 years of walking with the Saviour, I have never saw anything but the plain message of Romans 9-11 and the overall message to me was how a man could wish that he himself could be accursed of God if it only meant that someone else might be saved in his place.

Again, if election were true, those sentiments of Paul would be totally unnecessary because he knew full well that those that were supposed to make it were going to make it.

One thing I find myself wondering, when does a Calvinist ever 'really' know they are part of the elect? Do they have to wait until after they die to find that out? Certainly God has never spoken to any of them and said 'You are in!' and human nature being what it is--no man can completely avoid being defeated by the world, the flesh and the Devil from time to time.

It is only my hope in the soul cleansing Blood of the Lamb that keep me going from one day to the next, seeing as how I am 'scarcely saved,' and muddling through the best way I know how. It's hard to be proud when you know what you were when you heard the Gospel, and truthfully speaking - except for Christ - not much better after all those years have gone by.

I sense a tremendous amount of pride of accomplishment in the few Calvinists that I've spoken with here.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
2,362
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#10
I sense a tremendous amount of pride of accomplishment in the few Calvinists that I've spoken with here.
Its the fake humbleness that makes me sick.

"oh im just picked out by God's grace from among all other sinners just like me. im not special."

I also hate the apathy calvinism brings to evangelizing. Its a fact that many of the reformed churches are dead as a doornail, very few have good evangelizing programs. No revivals.
They dont even do altar calls many of them, God forbid someone might get saved if they did.

I heard a calvinist preacher Paul Washer say that not only does he not do altar calls, doesnt care for the sinner's prayer, (Calling upon the Lord you know, who wants that?) and to top it all off, he doesnt even preach repentance right!
Lordship salvation but they cant even get that teaching right, he tells people to "go home and ask God to give you repentance". Yeah that works alot better than doing altar calls I bet.
Where is that in the bible? Where did anyone preach "Go home and pray God gives you repentance"? No its repent and then the people repent, or they dont. But you can count on the calvinist theological cemetaries to complicate that too.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,010
337
83
#11
So did God tell you why that they wind up in hell? I know it is written in Romans 1:32 the following; Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Yet it is written in 1 Tim 2:4, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Did God happen to mention what happens when a person presumes to speak a word in his name? (See: Deut 18:20)

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64
Saved- Greek meaning "a deliverance". There is a "deliverance" here on earth, when a child of God "comes unto the knowledge of the truth". Most salvation scriptures are pertaining to deliverance here on earth.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,010
337
83
#12
Its the fake humbleness that makes me sick.

"oh im just picked out by God's grace from among all other sinners just like me. im not special."

I also hate the apathy calvinism brings to evangelizing. Its a fact that many of the reformed churches are dead as a doornail, very few have good evangelizing programs. No revivals.
They dont even do altar calls many of them, God forbid someone might get saved if they did.

I heard a calvinist preacher Paul Washer say that not only does he not do altar calls, doesnt care for the sinner's prayer, (Calling upon the Lord you know, who wants that?) and to top it all off, he doesnt even preach repentance right!
Lordship salvation but they cant even get that teaching right, he tells people to "go home and ask God to give you repentance". Yeah that works alot better than doing altar calls I bet.
Where is that in the bible? Where did anyone preach "Go home and pray God gives you repentance"? No its repent and then the people repent, or they dont. But you can count on the calvinist theological cemetaries to complicate that too.
All scriptures must harmonize. I don't think that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 would repent of breaking a spiritual law that he could not discern and thought it was foolish. Repentance is for the disobedient child of God, who understands what he is repenting of.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
2,362
113
#13
All scriptures must harmonize. I don't think that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 would repent of breaking a spiritual law that he could not discern and thought it was foolish. Repentance is for the disobedient child of God, who understands what he is repenting of.
You keep posting this verse. You have been corrected many times and told what this verse is about.

The context says its about deep things of God.

NEXT
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,010
337
83
#14
You keep posting this verse. You have been corrected many times and told what this verse is about.

The context says its about deep things of God.

NEXT
1 Cor 2:10 says the Spirit "SEARCHETH ALL THINGS", not just the deep things. If you claim that you have something to do to receive eternal salvation, I understand your quest for allowing the natural man to understand spiritual things. But the scripture speaks for itself.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
2,362
113
#15
1 Cor 2:10 says the Spirit "SEARCHETH ALL THINGS", not just the deep things. If you claim that you have something to do to receive eternal salvation, I understand your quest for allowing the natural man to understand spiritual things. But the scripture speaks for itself.
Everyone has something to do with receiving eternal salvation

If not, lets chuck our bibles out the window.
It contains teaching and doctrine, all of which are useless if we are just ZAP saved. No need for any bibles or sermons or any of that. God will figure it out, SURELY?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,010
337
83
#16
Everyone has something to do with receiving eternal salvation

If not, lets chuck our bibles out the window.
It contains teaching and doctrine, all of which are useless if we are just ZAP saved. No need for any bibles or sermons or any of that. God will figure it out, SURELY?
That's just it! All that will be saved, were saved by Jesus on the cross and he will not lose any, not even one (Eph 6: 38), The bible is instructions as to how God wants his elect to live their lives here on earth,
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
#17
“(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)” (Romans 9:11).

We are going to refute the teaching of Calvinism as supposedly found in Romans 9.

Romans 9:11 mentions the purpose of God according to election. Unconditional election is one of the five points of Calvinism. Calvinism is a doctrine that teaches, among other things, that God chose, from the foundation of the world, who would be saved and who would be damned. Those he chose to save are called the elect and their election is unconditional. Unconditional election as taught in Calvinism is not according to Scripture, as you will see.

Always remember, when studying a chapter that seems to teach something contrary to the rest of the New Testament, to be careful in handling the passage. Such is the case with Romans 9.

Something about Romans 9 is peculiar.

God’s election in Romans 9:11 is that he would fulfill his promise to Abraham through Abraham’s literal seed. God’s choices for this fulfillment were Abraham in Romans 9:7, Isaac in Romans 9:7, Jacob in Romans 9:13 and Jesus in Romans 9:5, 33. That’s the line of the Jews through whom God would fulfill his purpose. Thus, the purpose of God according to election was not through Ishmael and his descendants, and it was not through Esau and his descendants. That’s obvious in this passage and all through the Old Testament.

Now, still addressing God’s purpose according to election as it concerns Israel (Romans 9:11), look at Romans 9:27, “a remnant shall be saved.”

This shows us that there will be enough Jews left at the end of the Tribulation to fulfill the promises to Abraham (Romans 9:7-8) so that the purpose of God according to election will stand (Romans 9:11). Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-27), they will become the ruling nation of the world (Isaiah 60:10-12), Jesus will be their king and king of the world sitting on the throne of David (Revelation 11:15, Luke 1:31-33), and the New Covenant promised to Israel will be fulfilled (Jeremiah 31:31-37).

Nothing any man can do down here will change that.

That purpose is fixed for Israel. All of this happens because the “purpose of God according to election” stands in spite of the fact that many individual Jews have rejected Jesus Christ (Romans 9:32-33). It was these Jews for whom Paul was so burdened that he could wish to be accursed (Romans 9:1-4). Their rejection will not keep the promises of God from being fulfilled.

Romans 9:1-29 really has nothing to do, then, with INDIVIDUAL salvation. This passage concerns Israel as a NATION of descendants from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The nation is made up of lots of individuals; “the number of the children of Israel [shall] be as the sand of the sea,” Romans 9:27. And of all these individuals only a “remnant shall be saved.” Hence, they were not individually elected, even as we are not individually elected.

You see, ever since the cross of Christ, any man that wants to get in on salvation and the mercy of God must have faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 9:30-33) whether he is a Jew or a Gentile (Romans 9:24; Acts 15:11). If he puts his faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary (Romans 10:4, 9-10, 13), then he becomes a child of God (Romans 9:8). At that point, God extends to him the benefits of the promises made to Abraham (Romans 4) which include eternal life.

That’s why Paul was willing to be accursed for his brethren, his kinsman (Romans 9:1-4).

He knew that they were passing up what God had promised to Abraham by election (Galatians 3:14-29) because they were rejecting Jesus Christ. Think about it, if God had already elected some of the INDIVIDUAL Jews and had already condemned the rest of the INDIVIDUAL Jews, then why in the world would Paul want to be accursed for them? If election is predestination to individual salvation, Paul could not have changed a thing by being accursed for them. His curse would have been utterly foolish.

Looking back, we know that “salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22) and that Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). Yet, many of these literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went to hell (Matthew 23:33, Lk 16:19-23, etc). That’s because they neglected the salvation that was offered to them in Jesus (Mark 10:17-27 for example; Hebrews 2:3). And that’s the fate of every man who rejects Jesus Christ as his Savior (John 3:18, 36).

They didn’t wind up in hell because God predestinated them to go there. That would be completely contrary to his will (II Peter 3:9).

Furthermore, since God said that Gentiles would get in on the promises, as well (Romans 9:24-26), God’s purposes according to election stand for us by faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 9:32, Romans 10:4, Galatians 3:26-29). That’s what is going on in Romans 9.

Now concerning some of the specifics in the chapter, they are as follows:

Romans 9:11 – neither Jacob nor Esau could have affected what God had already chosen for them. With God’s foreknowledge (I Peter 1:2) of what Esau and Jacob would do, he chose to continue the line of Christ and the promises through Jacob not Esau.

Romans 9:14-16 – Esau and Isaac were the ones who “willeth;” Isaac wanted to bless Esau and Esau wanted to kill Jacob and cut off his blessing. That didn’t happen. Jacob is the one who “runneth.” After running away, he still made it back to the land that God had promised Abraham (though it took him 20 years). You see, God had a purpose concerning those boys, and that purpose was fulfilled despite what they wanted to do or did.

Romans 9:19-21 – God does have power over the CLAY. He raised up Pharaoh (Romans 9:17). In his foreknowledge, he knew exactly how Pharaoh would handle the words of God preached by Moses and Aaron (Exodus 3:19-20). God knew that this Pharaoh was the right king who would give God the opportunity to use every one of those plagues and show his power in Egypt for the entire world to know.

But God did not predestinate Esau to hell. He did not predestinate Pharaoh to hell. God simply exercised his power “over the CLAY,” (Romans 9:21). The decision whether to follow the Lord or not was still up to the INDIVIDUALS. Pharaoh chose to reject God (Exodus 5:2, he professed to be an agnostic) and Esau chose to sell his birthright (Genesis 25:31-33). Those individual decisions of the heart were made by the men themselves and not by God.

Therefore, election in Romans 9 has nothing to do with Calvinism or an individual being elected to SALVATION by God. God extends mercy to any person who will put his faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law (Romans 9:30-33; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 2:16; etc).

Remember, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I don’t expect that you will be able to convince a Calvinist who wants to believe in his interpretation of these verses. When a man has already made up his mind that he is right in his doctrine he will argue until you see it his way or he will just turn you off. That’s too bad. However, we don’t want to discourage you from trying to show him the truth. I mainly pray that he doesn’t poison you with his doctrine.

I am not seeking to convince any Calvinist to give up his views—he has free will to decide what he wills to believe. My audience, hopefully, are those that are still willing to consider the Scriptures alone and let the Holy Spirit of God help them to know what to believe.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him” (I John 2:27).
This is a great post that shows a lot of study.

I'd just want to add that chapters 10 and 11 are also about the Jews; some verses are personal.

God predestined HOW people would be saved,,,not WHO would be saved.

John 3:16 and salvation comes through the Jewish nation.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#18
Everyone has something to do with receiving eternal salvation

If not, lets chuck our bibles out the window.
It contains teaching and doctrine, all of which are useless if we are just ZAP saved. No need for any bibles or sermons or any of that. God will figure it out, SURELY?
Jesus died for the sins of every one that his Father gave him, making them holy and without blame, saying that he would lose none of them, that he will raise all of them up at the last day, Jesus made his sacrifice offering to God for God's acceptance, and God was well pleased with his Son's offering. The offering was not made to man for man's acceptance, There will be no more sacrifice for man and therefore, no more souls saved eternally, except for those that he died for. The only deliverance (salvation) that God will give sense the cross will be deliverance here in time for his children when they repent for being disobedient to God's commandments. The bible is God's instructions to his children on how he wants them to live their lives this side of heaven. There are scriptures he has given us, telling us how that we were eternally saved by his grace, but most of the salvation scriptures are deliverance his disobedient children receive here in time.