ROMANS, CHAPTER 8
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When GOD wants to say something for the service of all men, HE will use whom HE will use to say what HE wants to say.
And HE did.
HE used Paul, Peter, Mark, Matthew and John.
And HE used John (the beloved) afterwards to reveal something more that would come and HE, by HIS SPIRIT, taught.
There is the clear evidence that it is GOD who by HIS SPIRIT, "inspires" those whom HE calls to "write down" or NOT TO WRITE DOWN what HE reveals.
GOD revealed something to John that HE did tell him NOT to WRITE DOWN.
John knew it...but it isn't written down. (Similar to Daniel who was told to go his way, that these things were for the time of the end)...
Do you know what it is that GOD directed both Daniel and John not to speak or write down?
Similar also to Paul who was taken to the THIRD HEAVEN but told not to speak of it...
And HE did.
HE used Paul, Peter, Mark, Matthew and John.
And HE used John (the beloved) afterwards to reveal something more that would come and HE, by HIS SPIRIT, taught.
There is the clear evidence that it is GOD who by HIS SPIRIT, "inspires" those whom HE calls to "write down" or NOT TO WRITE DOWN what HE reveals.
GOD revealed something to John that HE did tell him NOT to WRITE DOWN.
John knew it...but it isn't written down. (Similar to Daniel who was told to go his way, that these things were for the time of the end)...
Do you know what it is that GOD directed both Daniel and John not to speak or write down?
Similar also to Paul who was taken to the THIRD HEAVEN but told not to speak of it...
those Greek & Hebrew works are not "translations" -- they are copies of the autographs. "preservations" would be an entirely accurate word for them, not translations at all.
& i am sure that they have been around for quite a few more generations than the kjv.
you're dodging the point -- because you don't have an answer for it.
if the kjv was the perfect primary source, then when any of the several billion people in the world who don't speak English needed to read and hear the scripture in their own language, they would go first to the kjv to start making a translation, and if it was indeed perfect, they would need no other source but a 500 year old english-to-whatever-language dictionary.
but that's not the case.
which means that the scripture as written in the language God chose to have it written in originally is the purest form of the written Word that man has available to him. every translation is a compromise. that alone doesn't make any of them not efficacious.
but you're being just plain ignorant and unnecessarily contentious to keep denying that, and seeing you guys go on ignoring the actual meat of this thread -- the very word of God -- in order to carry on a bit of tired old divisive bickering that no one outside of your cult believes, which has been shown countless times to be fruitless, illogical, unconvincing, misdirected & just plain wrong, it's really no wonder that so often people who are always looking for an excuse to start up such divisiveness are seen as making an idol out of it.
. . but i guess you think you're doing God's work here, huh? probably being rebuked over it by the elders in this body makes you think you're somehow 'suffering persecution' so that whole conspiratorial mindset is just reinforced, right?
hey, no one is telling you you need to stop reading the kjv. y'all just need to accept that it is not a god. it is a translation - a very good one, but not without flaw.
i own exactly two physical copies of the scripture: a 1984 niv that the church i grew up in gave me the year it came out -- they bought them for all the youth in the congregation, and had our names embossed on them.
and the other is an akjv. heck, it's even a Scoffield reference edition. i bought it when the major prophets started falling out of my old niv. so whatever assumptions you're making in the back of your head about me need also to be laid to rest in the grave, and let that old mind be raised again with Him in newness of life!
if a suit & tie and a thick, pretentious gold-leaf kjv Bible under the arm is what it takes to get a nod of approval from you lot, don't you worry, i got the membership card.
& i am sure that they have been around for quite a few more generations than the kjv.
you're dodging the point -- because you don't have an answer for it.
if the kjv was the perfect primary source, then when any of the several billion people in the world who don't speak English needed to read and hear the scripture in their own language, they would go first to the kjv to start making a translation, and if it was indeed perfect, they would need no other source but a 500 year old english-to-whatever-language dictionary.
but that's not the case.
which means that the scripture as written in the language God chose to have it written in originally is the purest form of the written Word that man has available to him. every translation is a compromise. that alone doesn't make any of them not efficacious.
but you're being just plain ignorant and unnecessarily contentious to keep denying that, and seeing you guys go on ignoring the actual meat of this thread -- the very word of God -- in order to carry on a bit of tired old divisive bickering that no one outside of your cult believes, which has been shown countless times to be fruitless, illogical, unconvincing, misdirected & just plain wrong, it's really no wonder that so often people who are always looking for an excuse to start up such divisiveness are seen as making an idol out of it.
. . but i guess you think you're doing God's work here, huh? probably being rebuked over it by the elders in this body makes you think you're somehow 'suffering persecution' so that whole conspiratorial mindset is just reinforced, right?
hey, no one is telling you you need to stop reading the kjv. y'all just need to accept that it is not a god. it is a translation - a very good one, but not without flaw.
i own exactly two physical copies of the scripture: a 1984 niv that the church i grew up in gave me the year it came out -- they bought them for all the youth in the congregation, and had our names embossed on them.
and the other is an akjv. heck, it's even a Scoffield reference edition. i bought it when the major prophets started falling out of my old niv. so whatever assumptions you're making in the back of your head about me need also to be laid to rest in the grave, and let that old mind be raised again with Him in newness of life!
if a suit & tie and a thick, pretentious gold-leaf kjv Bible under the arm is what it takes to get a nod of approval from you lot, don't you worry, i got the membership card.
Paul makes a very cogent and well-reasoned argument, and it spans several chapters -- this is only part of it. try & follow:
so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death
(Romans 6:3)
we are buried with him by baptism into death
(Romans 6:4)
we have been planted together in the likeness of his death
(Romans 6:5)
our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed
(Romans 6:6)
in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin
(Romans 6:10-11)
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(Romans 6:7)
Know ye not, brethren, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
(Romans 7:1)
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ
(Romans 7:4)
now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held
(Romans 7:6)
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(Romans 7:17)
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(Romans 7:20)
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Romans 7:25)
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus
(Romans 8:1)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath
made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 8:2)
if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:10)
whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What shall we then say to these things?
If God be for us, who can be against us?
(Romans 8:30-31)
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?
It is God that justifieth.
(Romans 8:33)
(Romans 6:3)
we are buried with him by baptism into death
(Romans 6:4)
we have been planted together in the likeness of his death
(Romans 6:5)
our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed
(Romans 6:6)
in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin
(Romans 6:10-11)
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(Romans 6:7)
Know ye not, brethren, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
(Romans 7:1)
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ
(Romans 7:4)
now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held
(Romans 7:6)
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(Romans 7:17)
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(Romans 7:20)
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Romans 7:25)
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus
(Romans 8:1)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath
made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 8:2)
if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:10)
whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What shall we then say to these things?
If God be for us, who can be against us?
(Romans 8:30-31)
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?
It is God that justifieth.
(Romans 8:33)
Who is he that condemneth?
It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again,
who is even at the right hand of God,
who also maketh intercession for us.
(Romans 8:34)
It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again,
who is even at the right hand of God,
who also maketh intercession for us.
(Romans 8:34)
[HR][/HR]
yea, verily -- who is it that condemneth?
the law? nay - for to it we have died, having been immersed into Him which also died, and which also was raised.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:
for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself;
or thou that judgest doest the same things.
(Romans 2:1)
for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself;
or thou that judgest doest the same things.
(Romans 2:1)
¿comprenden ustedes?
♥
♥
The believer who is not walking charitably with his brother and so causes him to stumble over something like eating meat(which we have the liberty in Christ to eat), and the weak brother's conscience is destroyed because he ate without a clear conscience. The mature believer is at fault.
The rewards will be handed out at the Judgment Seat of Christ, the judgment for all those in Christ, not for sin issues, but according to how we walked, either after the Spirit or after the flesh.
The rewards will be handed out at the Judgment Seat of Christ, the judgment for all those in Christ, not for sin issues, but according to how we walked, either after the Spirit or after the flesh.
we know that we will be raised with Him because we have died with Him.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with him
(Romans 6:8)
It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with him,
we shall also live with him
(2 Timothy 2:11)
we believe that we shall also live with him
(Romans 6:8)
It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with him,
we shall also live with him
(2 Timothy 2:11)
it is because we have died that there is now no more condemnation for us, as having been immersed into Christ.
[HR][/HR]
our hope is not in our works;
it is in His finished work.
our faith is not in our faithfulness to do the works He prepared for us;
it is in His faithfulness to complete the work He began in us.
[HR][/HR]
there's some upside-down stuff being tossed around in this thread!
but we know many false teachers will rise up, and the reason He told us to beware of them wasn't because they are obvious to spot -- but because these wolves look like sheep, and say sheepy things, and do things sheep do.
But His sheep know His voice
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him:
for they know not the voice of strangers.
(John 10:5)
for they know not the voice of strangers.
(John 10:5)
If your banking on the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts which are copies of the original autographs...then what do all those people around the world who speak a different language than Greek and Hebrew?
God never promised to preserve His words in every language, nor to He give His original words in every language. That dog won't hunt.
God never promised to preserve His words in every language, nor to He give His original words in every language. That dog won't hunt.
i own exactly two physical copies of the scripture: a 1984 niv that the church i grew up in gave me the year it came out -- they bought them for all the youth in the congregation, and had our names embossed on them.
and the other is an akjv. heck, it's even a Scoffield reference edition. i bought it when the major prophets started falling out of my old niv. so whatever assumptions you're making in the back of your head about me need also to be laid to rest in the grave, and let that old mind be raised again with Him in newness of life!
if a suit & tie and a thick, pretentious gold-leaf kjv Bible under the arm is what it takes to get a nod of approval from you lot, don't you worry, i got the membership card.
we know that we will be raised with Him because we have died with Him.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with him
(Romans 6:8)
It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with him,
we shall also live with him
(2 Timothy 2:11)
we believe that we shall also live with him
(Romans 6:8)
It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with him,
we shall also live with him
(2 Timothy 2:11)
it is because we have died that there is now no more condemnation for us, as having been immersed into Christ.
[HR][/HR]
our hope is not in our works;
it is in His finished work.
our faith is not in our faithfulness to do the works He prepared for us;
it is in His faithfulness to complete the work He began in us.
[HR][/HR]
there's some upside-down stuff being tossed around in this thread!
but we know many false teachers will rise up, and the reason He told us to beware of them wasn't because they are obvious to spot -- but because these wolves look like sheep, and say sheepy things, and do things sheep do.
But His sheep know His voice
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him:
for they know not the voice of strangers.
(John 10:5)
for they know not the voice of strangers.
(John 10:5)
are you really that dense?
people who don't speak Greek & Hebrew . . . like, for example, people who only speak English . . . have translations of God's word made from that scripture that has been preserved for all generations in the exact languages in which He in His divine wisdom first issued them.
seriously, you are that muddled? that this needs to be repeatedly explained to you?
people who don't speak Greek & Hebrew . . . like, for example, people who only speak English . . . have translations of God's word made from that scripture that has been preserved for all generations in the exact languages in which He in His divine wisdom first issued them.
seriously, you are that muddled? that this needs to be repeatedly explained to you?