ROMANS, CHAPTER 8

[ukok102nak]

we learned that god loves us all
before they changed all the languages
as it is written
:read:
Genesis 11:10
This is the account of Shem and his descendants. Two years after the flood when Shem was 100 years old, he became the father of Arpachshad.

 

[John146]

you mean like the kjv?

because that's what the kjv is -- do you forget? -- it's a translation.
it's not "the preserved word" -- Jesus did not speak in Victorian English. Moses did not write in Victorian English. Daniel & Isaiah did not prophesy in Victorian English.

the "preserved word of God" is preserved in the language that the word was given.

well hey -- case in point -- the kjv is not 100% accurate; it copied a copying mistake in Romans 8:1

there are a lot of errors in the kjv.
the "Red Sea" does not exist in the middle east; that's "the Reed Sea."
there's no such thing as a cockatrice or unicorn -- should be a type of snake, and an aurochs.
1 John 3:6 should read that whoever abides in Him "does not continue in sin" -- not that they "sinneth not."

and a whole host of other little problems. other translations have their own translation problems. every time you translate, you lose nuance. but God give s His spirit, and He gives understanding. none of the errors in the kjv, niv, esv, nasb, etc. are so grave that the gospel is lost. they are all little things - some with theological inconsistencies of various scale, some more mundane. but with the spirit who guides us into all knowledge of Him, we don't need perfect word for word translation - sometimes Jesus does not quote word-for-word, nor do the disciples - why?
but this is where the word of God is truly preserved: in the hearts of those who are sealed by the same Spirit who is the Author of the book. if every copy was destroyed on earth, the Spirit could raise someone up to write it all down again.

When Joseph spoke in Egyptian to his brothers initially(remember, they used a translator), those words were found in the Hebrew manuscripts. Did Moses, the writer of Genesis, get it right? How did he translate what Joseph said in Egyptian into Hebrew and still get it 100% right? Where there little "inconscistences" in the Hebrew manuscripts? Hmmmm

 

[justthefacts]

ukok102nak, I am sorry, but I do not understand your reasoning. It may be because of the modern English wording of the scriptures you have used. I prefer the Authorized version of the King James Bible because you do not lose as much through the transliteration of the Greek into the English language. These modern English language bibles forfeit a lot in reasoning for my taste. Its like transliterating the English language from the English language. To much emphasis upon the writers personal take in those scriptures.


JTF

 

[ukok102nak]

:yawn: those other two were like wind and earth
one is for blowing his nose and the second one is staying there
to look if his nose will bubble and laugh over it
by the way
its not the others fault why the languages were been changed
as it is written
:read:

7*Let us go down there and mix up their language so that they won't understand each other."
8*So the LORD scattered them all over the face of the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9*This is why it was named Babel, because there the LORD turned the language of the whole earth into babble. From that place the LORD scattered them all over the face of the earth.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: and
your partner :scarf: shall wipe those bubble from his nose
while he is sleeping and talking

 

[ukok102nak]

:yawn: that reminds me to look who blows from one end to another

 

[ukok102nak]

that another :yawn: should look for him :scarf:
and were very certain that it will be a one hell of a fight for another

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: he should reach for :star: first before he could look for :scarf:

those another :yawn: and :scarf: are really good to us :aliens:
and treat other as one of there own
as it is written
:read:
24*Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their corrupt nature along with its passions and desires.
25*If we live by our spiritual nature, then our lives need to conform to our spiritual nature.
26*We can't allow ourselves to act arrogantly and to provoke or envy each other.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[miknik5]

we learned that god loves us all
before they changed all the languages
as it is written
:read:
Genesis 11:10
This is the account of Shem and his descendants. Two years after the flood when Shem was 100 years old, he became the father of Arpachshad.

Who changed all the languages?

 

[ukok102nak]

along with his armies that he commanded
as it is written
:read:
13*"When I called, they wouldn't listen. So now when they call, I won't listen, says the LORD of Armies.
14*I used a windstorm to scatter them among all the nations, nations they hadn't even heard of. They left behind a land so ruined that no one is able to travel through it. They have turned a pleasant land into a wasteland."

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

as all here can see that if we continue to romans 8:26
as it is written
:read:
26*At the same time the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, because we don't know how to pray for what we need. But the Spirit intercedes along with our groans that cannot be expressed in words.
27*The one who searches our hearts knows what the Spirit has in mind. The Spirit intercedes for God's people the way God wants him to.
28*We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God--those whom he has called according to his plan.

29*This is true because he already knew his people and had already appointed them to have the same form as the image of his Son. Therefore, his Son is the firstborn among many children.
30*He also called those whom he had already appointed. He approved of those whom he had called, and he gave glory to those whom he had approved of.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

... . this is what our brethren meant to say
as it is written
:read:
Zacarias: 7. 7.
Should ye not hear the words which the LORD hath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity, and the cities thereof round about her, when men inhabited the south and the plain?
8. And the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah, saying,
9. Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:
10. And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.
11. But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
12. Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
13. Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts:
14. But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

hey ... . its the lord who came to zecharia
then the lord speaket unto that arcangel mikael este the lord of armies of his angels
for the lord uses his ministered arcangels
which came unto the flames as like what happens to moises
as it is written
:read:
Judas: 1. 9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

 

[ukok102nak]

... . and
thats why those angels were mistaken as the lord god itself
and also mistaken as our lord jesus christ
as it is written
:read:
Pahayag: 1. 1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

. ... but
also there were angels different from the angels of
our lord jesus christ the only begotten son of god
as it is written
:read:
Pahayag: 12. 7. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Pahayag: 3. 5. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

... . : : . ... like
those angels who were been decieved by the evil one
as it is written
:read:
Pahayag: 12. 9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[posthuman]

. . . the underlying Hebrew and Greek texts have never changed at all.

"thou hast said it"

 

[posthuman]

The Bible was translated in God's perfect timing. English was on the verge of being the dominant language on the planet and there was a sense of longing from the people to have a copy of God's word for their own.

well since at the present time, Chinese is the most commonly spoken language on the globe, and the Spirit of God by all accounts is moving mightily among those people . . have you seen the videos of new believers in Asia weeping with joy when they receive their first copy of the Bible in their own language?

and Spanish is the second most commonly spoken language . . and the Spirit moves also among these famously passionate people . .

. . and English is third, while we are presently watching both Europe & America descend into gross immorality . .

hmm.
looks like the kjv ain't exactly in its heyday anymore.
yet the scripture as given in the languages that God intended them to be given in, remains preserved.
and it's to those old scrolls -- not to the kjv -- that wise men go to in order to make translations for believers who speak Chinese and Spanish, so that they can read and hide the word in their hearts.

case closed.

 

[posthuman]

Except you have the Spirit of God [His Spirit], you are no child of His. The new creature is born and complete at the time of conception [belief], and there is no more saving to be done or are you saying that the Lord of your grace could not do the job the Holy Father sent Him to do??

One must grow and mature in the Spirit [word], but the transformation is complete.

It is the will of our Lord that we remain in this world at "Spiritual Birth" to continue His work and not be immediately taken home to the Holy Father [John 17], but there is no more saving to be done for the work of the Holy Spirit is once and complete for all time.


JTF

while i am with you in that Christ's work is finished on the cross and at the empty tomb, and He did indeed sit down when He had ascended -- He also went to prepare a place for us, and He makes intercession for us forever.

we have been sealed and declared holy forever by His finished work, but that same scripture says "those who are being made holy" -- and the Bible talks in many places of a progressive, ongoing sanctification and transformation.

you can find in the NT all three tenses describing the work of His salvation: we have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved.

and there's this truth

Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
(1 John 3:2-3)​

maybe this is just a case of words failing - would we be able to better express the thought in Greek? the language is more complex in some ways, with more subtlety, but English is also a very complex method to communicate.

all languages are ways to communicate ideas -- it's not the words that we are trying to tell each other, but the thought, emotion and concept behind them. that is the thing that is written on our hearts and preserved forever: the thing that God is actually telling us, the love of Him, His law.

& all languages were confused at Babel. it's a 'handicap' we all need to live with and work around -- for now -- while we dwell in these tents, this flesh.

 

[posthuman]

ukok102nak, I am sorry, but I do not understand your reasoning. It may be because of the modern English wording of the scriptures you have used. I prefer the Authorized version of the King James Bible because you do not lose as much through the transliteration of the Greek into the English language. These modern English language bibles forfeit a lot in reasoning for my taste. Its like transliterating the English language from the English language. To much emphasis upon the writers personal take in those scriptures.


JTF

lol methinks thou mayest not well know that of which thou doth speak on this matter; thy familiarity doth lack.
wherein the difficulty lay, not in ukok's chosen scroll, nay within the wit of the man himself, who being as any an heart set apart hath in himself that separation whence cometh from Nimrod's city & structure by which all in this common beasthood we share were thus puzzled.
takest thou salt then, and not over thy shoulder doest hurl, but upon thy meal sprinklest thou, unto savor!
God love the man, this fraternal comrade; a soul alike unto us, so unlike!

[HR][/HR]
. . & one of the things modern translations do is correct some of the errors in actual translation present in the KJV.

[HR][/HR]
((also by the way "transliteration" = not translating, just writing the same word down with a different spelling. for example "baptize" is a transliterated word -- the Greek is "baptizo" and it means literally "to immerse" but has significance beyond that in many cases. almost all English translations share exactly the same transliteration -- thou personally i think it is good to actually translate this word, because "immersion" into Him is a concept maybe sometimes overlooked by our familiarity with that transliterated word, so we lose the meaning of it))

 

[posthuman]

... . this is what our brethren meant to say
as it is written
:read:
Zacarias: 7. 7.
Should ye not hear the words which the LORD hath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity, and the cities thereof round about her, when men inhabited the south and the plain?
8. And the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah, saying,
9. Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:
10. And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.
11. But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
12. Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
13. Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts:
14. But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.

:ty:

godbless us all always

♪ He bring the whirlwind to scatter your fire
you cannot reach Him, no,
not from your tallest spire ♫

​

♥​

♫ and if you think you can see it in your hand
then you are blind ♪♪​

 

[posthuman]

[video=youtube;nj5oi7r6ZdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj5oi7r6ZdY[/video]