Russia is preparing Cush and Put (the African Alliance) for the Ezekiel 38 War!
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Thank you for putting down your take on all these awesome scriptures, @Mem .
Here’s mine:
2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he (Satan) might be revealed in his time.
The subject of this discussion is "the son of perdition“—Satan (the Antichrist, the false Christ)
I believe the “what” above is a place, the pit of the abyss (Revelation 9:1, 11:7).
2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
The "mystery of iniquity" is the mystery of lawlessness. —"he who now letteth will let"—in the Greek, this should be translated "he who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"—"There is one who hold's fast" instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse 6 is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies (see Ephesians 6:12), from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael (Revelation 12:7-9).
Michael is the one who "holds fast" to Satan (the Antichrist), and Michael will keep Satan in place until the appointed time when he (Michael) will be taken out of the way and Satan and his angels will be released from the abyss. This time has been set by God, as mentioned above. Satan and his fallen angels will then be cast to the earth (see Revelation 9:1–10).
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
I believe that Michael is who the "he" is in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 and his (Michael's) angels fought against the dragon (another name for Satan) and his (Satan's) fallen angels.
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
This war will be fought in heaven, where Satan and his angels currently reside (although Satan's spirit and demonic spirits roam all over the earth today).
….and here’s what Michael does with Satan, fulfilling 2 Thessalonians 2:7.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
At this time, Satan and his angels will make an earthly appearance. Since Satan appears at the sound of the sixth trumpet, we must determine the season when the Antichrist will appear by the timing of these events.
The passage then picks up as Satan is about to deceive everyone in the world when he stands in the holy place in Jerusalem claiming to be God.
Thank you for putting down your take on all these awesome scriptures, @Mem .
Here’s mine:2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he (Satan) might be revealed in his time.
The subject of this discussion is "the son of perdition“—Satan (the Antichrist, the false Christ)
I believe the “what” above is a place, the pit of the abyss (Revelation 9:1, 11:7).
2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
The "mystery of iniquity" is the mystery of lawlessness. —"he who now letteth will let"—in the Greek, this should be translated "he who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"—"There is one who hold's fast" instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse 6 is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies (see Ephesians 6:12), from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael (Revelation 12:7-9).
Michael is the one who "holds fast" to Satan (the Antichrist), and Michael will keep Satan in place until the appointed time when he (Michael) will be taken out of the way and Satan and his angels will be released from the abyss. This time has been set by God, as mentioned above. Satan and his fallen angels will then be cast to the earth (see Revelation 9:1–10).
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
I believe that Michael is who the "he" is in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 and his (Michael's) angels fought against the dragon (another name for Satan) and his (Satan's) fallen angels.
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
This war will be fought in heaven, where Satan and his angels currently reside (although Satan's spirit and demonic spirits roam all over the earth today).
….and here’s what Michael does with Satan, fulfilling 2 Thessalonians 2:7.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
At this time, Satan and his angels will make an earthly appearance. Since Satan appears at the sound of the sixth trumpet, we must determine the season when the Antichrist will appear by the timing of these events.
The passage then picks up as Satan is about to deceive everyone in the world when he stands in the holy place in Jerusalem claiming to be God.
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Hello, @Mem …. Pronouns and their antecedents can definitely be confusing. Here’s my understanding:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 (King James Version)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The subject of this passage is found in v. 3–that man of sin, the son of perdition—the one we know as Satan.
The pronoun what in v. 6 specifies something that is withholding Satan, but the antecedent is not given here, and Paul says why in v. 5. He has already told them. We know from Revelation 20:1-3 that Satan is presently being held in that “what,” the bottomless pit, and an angel has the key to it. That angel (perhaps Michael) is holding Satan fast until the appointed time for his release.
The antecedent of the pronoun he in v. 6 is, again, the subject of the entire passage, that man of sin, the son of perdition.
Verse 7 reminds us that the ”mystery of iniquity” (the spirit of lawlessness and deception) is already in the world, but the appointed time for Satan to be revealed will not come until ”he who now letteth,” the antecedent of “he,” is taken out of the way. The antecedent of both he’s in verse 7 is the “what withholdeth” in v. 6–or the angel who has the key to the bottomless pit. As @selahsays pointed out, the word letteth (katecho) #2722 in Strong’s Concordance means to hold fast, hold back, restrain, detain. As we also know from Revelation 20, the time will come for that angel to be “taken out of the way,” and Satan will be released for a little while, both to be revealed and destroyed.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 (King James Version)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The subject of this passage is found in v. 3–that man of sin, the son of perdition—the one we know as Satan.
The pronoun what in v. 6 specifies something that is withholding Satan, but the antecedent is not given here, and Paul says why in v. 5. He has already told them. We know from Revelation 20:1-3 that Satan is presently being held in that “what,” the bottomless pit, and an angel has the key to it. That angel (perhaps Michael) is holding Satan fast until the appointed time for his release.
The antecedent of the pronoun he in v. 6 is, again, the subject of the entire passage, that man of sin, the son of perdition.
Verse 7 reminds us that the ”mystery of iniquity” (the spirit of lawlessness and deception) is already in the world, but the appointed time for Satan to be revealed will not come until ”he who now letteth,” the antecedent of “he,” is taken out of the way. The antecedent of both he’s in verse 7 is the “what withholdeth” in v. 6–or the angel who has the key to the bottomless pit. As @selahsays pointed out, the word letteth (katecho) #2722 in Strong’s Concordance means to hold fast, hold back, restrain, detain. As we also know from Revelation 20, the time will come for that angel to be “taken out of the way,” and Satan will be released for a little while, both to be revealed and destroyed.
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Rev 20 1-3 follows the Rev 19 17-21's prophecy of the Defeat of the Beast and False Prophet that are thrown alive into the lake of fire. So, in your view, given your understanding that Satan has already been bound and is currently held in the bottomless pit, the beast and false prophet are in the lake of fire never to return again?
After I wrote this response to @selahsays , I realized that I wasn't at all clearly representing my understanding of v.7.
I would've more accurately represented my position if I should've written, "I understand that it is commonly accepted that the restrainer isn't the lawless one but.... and the rest of the sentence would stand as is. But I overlooked that misstep being focused on the body of my post and did not realize it until I sent the message and looked back well after my five-minute window had closed.
The mystery of iniquity doth already work (and is still working): only he (the mystery of lawlessness) who now letteth will let, until he (the mystery of lawlessness) be taken out of the way.
This makes perfect sense to me, since it doesn't switch subjects in mid thought by slipping in a vague referral to another subject but continues in unambiguous continuity.
I would rather rearrange my thoughts by following the logic of writings of scripture rather rearrange the thoughts of scripture to fit any particularly common understanding.
I would've more accurately represented my position if I should've written, "I understand that it is commonly accepted that the restrainer isn't the lawless one but.... and the rest of the sentence would stand as is. But I overlooked that misstep being focused on the body of my post and did not realize it until I sent the message and looked back well after my five-minute window had closed.
The mystery of iniquity doth already work (and is still working): only he (the mystery of lawlessness) who now letteth will let, until he (the mystery of lawlessness) be taken out of the way.
This makes perfect sense to me, since it doesn't switch subjects in mid thought by slipping in a vague referral to another subject but continues in unambiguous continuity.
I would rather rearrange my thoughts by following the logic of writings of scripture rather rearrange the thoughts of scripture to fit any particularly common understanding.
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Any news reports on how Russia is redeveloping their military to be mostly a horse led cavalry?
Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.
You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army.
Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.
You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army.
Hi, @BeeBlessed —Good job on explaining antecedents and such, so thanks! ….but regarding Revelation 20, let’s figure it out together. It says:
Revelation 20:1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."
So this event happens on the first day of the Millennium, after Satan has completed his five-month reign here on earth and the battles of Armageddon and Hamongog have already taken place. On that first day of the Millennium age, both the beast and the false prophet are destroyed.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
- Revelation 19:20 (KJV)
Satan will be locked away, and his influence will be totally absent during this time of the Millennium (1,000 years). ….And then, he will be loosed for a little season.
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
- Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)
Revelation 20:1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."
So this event happens on the first day of the Millennium, after Satan has completed his five-month reign here on earth and the battles of Armageddon and Hamongog have already taken place. On that first day of the Millennium age, both the beast and the false prophet are destroyed.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
- Revelation 19:20 (KJV)
Satan will be locked away, and his influence will be totally absent during this time of the Millennium (1,000 years). ….And then, he will be loosed for a little season.
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
- Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)
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Shela, I would like to comment on your post above. And since you state that your comments concern the “son of perdition” I wish to make it clear that I agree with you that it is in reference to Satan, Thee Anti-Christ with a capital A. My issue with you post is you understanding of Rev. 12:7-9. You understand it to be a prophecy waiting for fulfillment. I understand it to have been fulfilled on resurrection Sunday.
Please consider the following commentary on Rev. 12:7-12.
Rev.12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angles fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angles,
{7} There was a war in Heaven. Michael (the name which Jesus used before coming to Earth as a human) and His angels fought against the great red dragon and his angels.
A few hours before His death, Jesus made the following statement: “ ‘Father, glorify your name!’ Then a voice came from Heaven, ‘I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.’ The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him. Jesus said, ‘This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.’ ”
Jesus knew that Lucifer would be permanently cast out of Heaven if the Father approved His sacrifice. When Jesus said, “Now is the time for judgment on this world. . . ,” He meant that the time had come for the Father to determine who should be the rightful prince of this world. When Jesus said, “now the prince of this world will be driven out,” Jesus predicted the war described in verse 7. This war occurred on Resurrection Sunday.
Rev. 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev. 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
{8} But the devil and his demons were thrown out of Heaven, never to enter again. God did not destroy the devil and his angels on Resurrection Sunday because His purpose for them was not finished. God permitted open warfare in Heaven between Lucifer and his angels and Jesus and his angels for a significant reason. The Father wanted to make sure that among the holy angels, no sympathy for the once adored and highly exalted Lucifer remained. This war was not a test of faith as the first war had been.(Ez.28:12-17) This war produced a revelation. The Father allowed the battle to last long enough to see where each angel firmly stood. After 4,000 years, there was no change. Those loyal to Lucifer defended their evil leader and remained unchanged. Those loyal to Michael also remained unchanged.
{9} Once the loyalty of the angels was confirmed, the devil and his angels were once again thrown out of Heaven, at the speed of light- ning.(Luke 10:18) The Father threw the devil and his angels into an earthly abyss and confined them there.
Ever since Resurrection Sunday, the devil and his angels have been bound to this planet, limited to the dimensions of the spirit realm (represented to John as the abyss). Originally, the great red dragon and his angels were hurled out of Heaven because of defiance. Four thousand years later, their defiance remains unchanged. The great red dragon is that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled into the Earth, and his angels with him.*
Rev. 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev. 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev. 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
{10} After the war in Heaven ended, I heard a loud voice in Heaven say: “Now that salvation has been paid in full and the devil has been defeated, the gospel of Jesus Christ and His coming kingdom will advance with clarity and power throughout the Earth. Lucifer’s position as “the prince of Earth” has been honorably over- thrown by the perfect life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The accuser of our human brothers, who accuses them before God day and night, has been hurled down and his endless arguments and accusations in Heaven against repentant sinners have been silenced.”
{11} The voice continued: “Even though our brothers on Earth are sinners, they are not hopeless or defeated. Lucifer’s claim that God cannot legally justify sinners has been silenced because Jesus paid the price for every sinner who surrenders to the directives of the Holy Spirit and the gospel of Jesus Christ. Through faith in Christ, repentant sinners are covered with Christ’s righteousness (justified as though they never sinned) in God’s sight.”
{12} “Therefore, rejoice holy angels, all of you who live in Heaven because atonement for sinners has been paid in full, but woe to God’s people on Earth for the devil’s wrath is upon you! He is filled with fury, because he now knows that he will fail miserably.
* Note - At the fifth trumpet, the devil and his angels will be permitted to exit the abyss. Therefore, a time is coming when the devil and his angels will physically appear before the people of Earth.(Rev.9:1-11) At the Second Coming, Jesus will destroy the bodies used by the devil and his angels and Jesus will return them to the abyss (spirit realm).(Rev.20:1-3)
2Peter 1:20-1 in mind, that authors of scripture "moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God," and "no scripture is of one's own interpretation," where idias (one's own; distinct) is defined as including one's people. So, I hesitate to take any interpretation because 'my group' tells me I the way I should see it.
The Strong's Greek for idias offers, "an interpretation which one thinks out for himself, opposed to that which the Holy Spirit teaches" in reference to 2Peter 1:20 but, although those belonging to any and especially those "belonging to any certain group of their own," such as pre-tribulation rapture proponents, might disagree, and that I am sure of, as I do not have any private circle to which I particularly belong, " I've simply read what is written as it is written rather than "think it out so that it goes my particular way."
The Strong's Greek for idias offers, "an interpretation which one thinks out for himself, opposed to that which the Holy Spirit teaches" in reference to 2Peter 1:20 but, although those belonging to any and especially those "belonging to any certain group of their own," such as pre-tribulation rapture proponents, might disagree, and that I am sure of, as I do not have any private circle to which I particularly belong, " I've simply read what is written as it is written rather than "think it out so that it goes my particular way."