Sabbath Confusion

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chiefofdisciples

Guest
#81
Saturday is the Sabaath day that God said we must keep Holy. It is the only day God hallowed.
Emperor Constantine the first Roman Christian emperor changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday to set difference between the pagan day of worship and Christian day of worship. For in those days 4th century all worshiped on Saturday. Yet still Saturday is the day that God rested and hallowed and commanded us to rest also and to keep it Holy. Peace and blessings
 
Aug 27, 2013
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#82
We are to keep the Sabbath by resting that day and allow God to take over our lives, not live by our work that day.
We are to do our work the other days, and worship God on those days.

Every other scripture that the Lord has given us must fit into those parameters.
I'd say you need to be careful to not idolize the day. Some Seventh Day Adventists make such a deal out of the Sabbath they Idolize the day, and I wonder if they remember it's God's day or just pay lip service to worship the day.... Not sure how else to describe that thought, but I don't think it's clear. AND I SAID SOME not any or every 7th day Adventist...
 
D

danschance

Guest
#83
Re-posted, as it seems to be needed yet again.... <sigh>
...............................................................
Once again we are confronted with Sabbath lunacy. The charge is somehow those Catholics changed a law of God for pagan reasons, or other such nonsense.

First off the mosaic laws were never once forced on any christian in scripture. In fact Paul writes about how some Jews insisted that circumcision be kept be the gentile converts. Paul refuted these legalistic"Judaisms" several times in Scripture. Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

This verse plainly teaches us that we can eat any food and worship on any day we wish. Yet the neo-judaizers still insist on pushing defunct rules in clear violation of scripture. Scriptures such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even while the New Testament times was being written, the Sabbath is no longer being observed by Christians and that Christians are worshiping on the "Lord’s day", Sunday, instead.


Did the Catholics really change the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday? Let's see what the early church father's said of this:


The Didache
"But every Lord’s day (Sunday) . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).





The Letter of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).





Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).





Justin Martyr
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).




Clearly there is no mention of the Catholic church changing a worship day because at this point there was no Catholic! So the charge that the Catholics changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday is devoid of any facts.

1) The Catholic church had nothing to do with changing any worship day.

2) Scriptures indicate Christians observed Sunday as a day of worship.
(
Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 )


3) Col. 2:16 forbids others from judging anyone on what they eat or which day they attend church
.
 
C

chiefofdisciples

Guest
#84
Follow His instruction concerning the Sabaath day for It is witten what must be done in order to keep it Holy. Do those things and you cant go wrong.
 
Aug 27, 2013
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#85
Once again, you avoided refuting the comments I made directly to you.

Dancing and singing a different song over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, doesn't make you right, it makes you redundantly wrong in a creative fashion.

:|

WORSHIP is not SABBATH. You should read your bible rather than parrot other people's interpretations of it. The Way kept the Sabbath then worshiped together the next day.

Who the heck are you to discern to REWRITE GOD'S COMMANDMENTS and His promises to mankind to fit your dogma? I can tell you aren't comfortable with it, else you would REFUTE MY COMMENTS/ARGUMENTS directly.

Until then, you are ranting, not discussing.

Who sold you the soapbox, they should be given a time out.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#86
Jesus is not God, that's heresy.
I see that you've been banned.

Isa 22:18 He will surely violently turne and tosse thee, like a ball into a large countrey: there shalt thou die, and there the charets of thy glory shall be the shame of thy Lords house.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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0
#87
Re-posted, as it seems to be needed yet again.... <sigh>
...............................................................
Once again we are confronted with Sabbath lunacy. The charge is somehow those Catholics changed a law of God for pagan reasons, or other such nonsense.

"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).
So whats the deal with this verse, im open ears, explain it to me:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."

And just because J.Martyr thought that does not make it correct, Scriptures prove Yahshua did not rise on Sunday, FRI-SUN is not three days 3 night, what the Messiah would BE THE ONLY SIGN OF THE TRUE MESSIAH.

I know you most likely wont watch it, but it is scriptually proved in this video if you can refute that im all ears, seriously.

Resurrection - YouTube
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#88
I challenge anyone who has not kept Sabbath to do it 4 times and if you dont grow Spiritually with Yahweh I will be shocked.
That's eight spotless lambs of the first year. How much will it cost to grow spiritually?

Num 28:9 ¶ And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour [for] a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: 10 [This is] the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#89
Re-posted, as it seems to be needed yet again.... <sigh>
...............................................................
Once again we are confronted with Sabbath lunacy. The charge is somehow those Catholics changed a law of God for pagan reasons, or other such nonsense.
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

My recommendation is do not stand too close to danschance.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#90
Luke 10:25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”
Not sure what this means, it says nothing about Christ becoming the Sabbath.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#91
Not keeping Sabbath means death, which is the opposite of “do this and you will live.”

Ex 31:12 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
OK, and then add this...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Breaking the Sabbath brings death. Seems straightforward to me.

P.S. I think my retinas are burned out.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
#92
I'd say you need to be careful to not idolize the day. Some Seventh Day Adventists make such a deal out of the Sabbath they Idolize the day, and I wonder if they remember it's God's day or just pay lip service to worship the day.... Not sure how else to describe that thought, but I don't think it's clear. AND I SAID SOME not any or every 7th day Adventist...
Well, at least that leaves me out, I am NOT an SDA.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
#93
Re-posted, as it seems to be needed yet again.... <sigh>
...............................................................
Once again we are confronted with Sabbath lunacy. The charge is somehow those Catholics changed a law of God for pagan reasons, or other such nonsense.

First off the mosaic laws were never once forced on any christian in scripture. In fact Paul writes about how some Jews insisted that circumcision be kept be the gentile converts. Paul refuted these legalistic"Judaisms" several times in Scripture. Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

This verse plainly teaches us that we can eat any food and worship on any day we wish. Yet the neo-judaizers still insist on pushing defunct rules in clear violation of scripture. Scriptures such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even while the New Testament times was being written, the Sabbath is no longer being observed by Christians and that Christians are worshiping on the "Lord’s day", Sunday, instead.


Did the Catholics really change the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday? Let's see what the early church father's said of this:


The Didache
"But every Lord’s day (Sunday) . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).





The Letter of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).





Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).





Justin Martyr
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).




Clearly there is no mention of the Catholic church changing a worship day because at this point there was no Catholic! So the charge that the Catholics changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday is devoid of any facts.

1) The Catholic church had nothing to do with changing any worship day.

2) Scriptures indicate Christians observed Sunday as a day of worship.
(
Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 )


3) Col. 2:16 forbids others from judging anyone on what they eat or which day they attend church
.
No one is judging you for breaking the Sabbath, we are discussing whether it should be kept or not. Col 2:16-17 isn't even relevant to this discussion.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#94
So whats the deal with this verse, im open ears, explain it to me:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."

And just because J.Martyr thought that does not make it correct, Scriptures prove Yahshua did not rise on Sunday, FRI-SUN is not three days 3 night, what the Messiah would BE THE ONLY SIGN OF THE TRUE MESSIAH.

I know you most likely wont watch it, but it is scriptually proved in this video if you can refute that im all ears, seriously.

Resurrection - YouTube
That video is 50 mins long and the audio sounds like a robot from the fifties, so you are right--I am not going to watch it. I can only assume you believe Jesus did not rise on Sunday. I find that to be a minor point to worry about. The important thing is that he died and rose from the grave to save all those who believe on him. So it is not at all important that Jesus rose on Sunday, but the fact that He rose is.

Even so I believe you interpretation is wrong as scripture recorded in Acts 20:7, 1 and 1Corinthians 16:2 clearly identifies Sunday as the day they gathered called the Lord's day.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#95
That video is 50 mins long and the audio sounds like a robot from the fifties, so you are right--I am not going to watch it. I can only assume you believe Jesus did not rise on Sunday. I find that to be a minor point to worry about. The important thing is that he died and rose from the grave to save all those who believe on him. So it is not at all important that Jesus rose on Sunday, but the fact that He rose is.

Even so I believe you interpretation is wrong as scripture recorded in Acts 20:7, 1 and 1Corinthians 16:2 clearly identifies Sunday as the day they gathered called the Lord's day.
So you believe that Friday at sunset to Sunday morning before dawn is three days and three nights? It is obvious we graduated from different schools.

Acts 20:7 from the Diaglott...

Act 20:7 In and the first of the sabbaths, having been assembled of us to break bread, the Paul discoursed to them, being about to depart on the morrow; continued and the discourse till midnight.

From Bullingers...

Acts 20:7


first, &c. = first day of the sabbaths, i.e. the first day for reckoning the seven sabbaths to Pentecost. It depended upon the harvest (Deu_16:9), and was always from the morrow after the weekly sabbath when the wave sheaf was presented (Lev_23:15). In Joh_20:1 this was the fourth day after the Crucifixion, "the Lord's Passover. "Compare App-156. This was by Divine ordering. But in A.D. 57 it was twelve days after the week of unleavened bread, and therefore more than a fortnight later than in A.D. 29.

I Cor 16:1-2

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

so what am I supposed to do, remove from the plate, take it home and lay it up in store? This is about foodstuffs being prepared and preserved for the starving saints in Judea, especially Jerusalem...

Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
1Co 16:4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
2Co 9:3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
2Co 9:4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
2Co 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2Co 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
2Co 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

Paul and Barnabas took the stores to Jerusalem to give to the brethren there.

There are three scriptures taught to every young, hopeful graduate from seminary that supposedly justifies Sunday worship. You brought up two of them and didn't mention the third...

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

None of the above refer to Sunday worship.

As far as which day Christ rose on being unimportant, you are wrong...

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Either He did exaclty what He said He would do, or He wasn't able to and therefore was not the Messiah.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
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#96
I see that you've been banned.

Isa 22:18 He will surely violently turne and tosse thee, like a ball into a large countrey: there shalt thou die, and there the charets of thy glory shall be the shame of thy Lords house.
For some of His comments about God he should have been.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#99
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-19
 
Oct 12, 2012
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It's not that confusing! Jesus is the True Sabbath, and we should seek to enter into His Rest!