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It is the very same exactly I have always said. I am accused of believing in using the rituals instead of the Holy Spirit (I can't spell that word they use to put me down: Judaniser?) because I don't believe that those of the Jewish culture are excluded by God when they use it. If fact, I have defended them if they still use the Holy Spirit, adding rituals also to help us walk the right spiritual path isn't all that bad, even if Paul said if we needed them it was a sign we were weak. I use diet to help me remember to keep my mind clean, I use a prayer shawl to help me put on Christ and block out the world as I listen, and I don't think either my diet or my shawl are going to send me to hell. Denying the HS might, or using these instead of what they lead me to might. But using them to help me isn't going to cut me off from my Lord.
Lots of bacon eaters say they are so righteous and strong they don't need any help as their movies, TV or books are filled with dirt. Seems to me they would do well to add all the help they can get.
Lots of bacon eaters say they are so righteous and strong they don't need any help as their movies, TV or books are filled with dirt. Seems to me they would do well to add all the help they can get.
I don't think you understand the argument here. Neverending cycles of 7 day weeks depends on the calendar system in use. The ancient Israelites used a lunar calendar where the first day of the month fell on a new moon and began a new week. If you need documentation, I refer you back to Lev 23. I guess you could say that the cycle hasn't been broken since the beginning of time because the moon still repeats it's cycles regularly. Nobody follows this system today though (well, at least in the industrialized world).
You should read the calendrical texts of the Essene/Qumran community as a good start for historical documentation. They recognized the issue and tried to offer explanations and a solution to ensure that the sabbath always aligned with the festival sabbaths and always fell on the same day of a neverending cycle of 7-day weeks. They did this by using a 364 day solar calendar. Of course their calendar had it's own problems, because with a 364 day year (instead of a 365.25..day year) you end up with roving seasons instead of roving sabbaths. They had a rather unique explanation for this phenomena too and wrote rather extensively on the entire subject.
So, yea, I have some interesting historical documentation. I doubt you're prepared to discuss it though, especially since this involves a lot of reading and won't involve a sentence from the 1920's and 30's that is cut/pasted from a handy list on a word document.
You should read the calendrical texts of the Essene/Qumran community as a good start for historical documentation. They recognized the issue and tried to offer explanations and a solution to ensure that the sabbath always aligned with the festival sabbaths and always fell on the same day of a neverending cycle of 7-day weeks. They did this by using a 364 day solar calendar. Of course their calendar had it's own problems, because with a 364 day year (instead of a 365.25..day year) you end up with roving seasons instead of roving sabbaths. They had a rather unique explanation for this phenomena too and wrote rather extensively on the entire subject.
So, yea, I have some interesting historical documentation. I doubt you're prepared to discuss it though, especially since this involves a lot of reading and won't involve a sentence from the 1920's and 30's that is cut/pasted from a handy list on a word document.
It's rather easy to determine which day is Saturday and Sunday. Tomorrow is Saturday.
It's also easy to determine the next sabbath (as instituted in the OT). The New Moon is actually today, assuming the shofar blew (anyone still do this either?; see Ps 81). So tomorrow is the first day of the month in the lunar calendar; count out 7 days and you have your next sabbath, which would correspond to next Friday on the Gregorian Calendar.
Did you celebrate the sabbath today? Do you plan on doing so a week from today? That's what the ancient Israelites would have been doing.
Check out the moon phases if the Spirit so moves you to align to the lunar calendar and sabbath recognized by the OT:
Moon calendar July 2014
It's also easy to determine the next sabbath (as instituted in the OT). The New Moon is actually today, assuming the shofar blew (anyone still do this either?; see Ps 81). So tomorrow is the first day of the month in the lunar calendar; count out 7 days and you have your next sabbath, which would correspond to next Friday on the Gregorian Calendar.
Did you celebrate the sabbath today? Do you plan on doing so a week from today? That's what the ancient Israelites would have been doing.
Check out the moon phases if the Spirit so moves you to align to the lunar calendar and sabbath recognized by the OT:
Moon calendar July 2014
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Mark 7:6-9, He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, this people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit,in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the traditions of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And He said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep you own tradition.
But that does not change the fact that the day that was retained as the Sabbath by the Jews, who kept the oracles of God, is the day the world calls Saturday. I found an interesting site here...
Our Week | Calendars
Some of you may have seen it before, it is new to me.
Our Week | Calendars
Some of you may have seen it before, it is new to me.
If you wanted to speak to a group that met on Saturday...when would you NEED to go teach them. On Saturday. All this proves is that the Jewish people were still meeting in the high places on the Sabbath. The very scripture that you posted says that he was trying to reason with them. If they were right, why would he need to reason with them from the scripture.
The church of the NT met daily. We all know this, but for some reason want to push "our day". Neither Sunday nor Saturday is "THE DAY" in which we MUST meet. Daily would be good. Sunday is good. Saturday is good. But insisting on one or the other is "THE DAY" is wrong.
Luke 9:23
And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Luke 11:3‘Give us each day our daily bread.
Luke 19:47And He was teaching daily in the temple; but the chief priests and the scribes and the leading men among the people were trying to destroy Him,
Luke 22:53
While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours.”
Acts 2:42
They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46-47
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, [SUP]47 [/SUP]praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Acts 5:42
And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they kept right on teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
Acts 6:1
[ Choosing of the Seven ] Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food.
Acts 16:5
So the churches were being strengthened in the faith, and were increasing in number daily.
Acts 17:11
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 19:9
But when some were becoming hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the people, he withdrew from them and took away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
The church of the NT met daily. We all know this, but for some reason want to push "our day". Neither Sunday nor Saturday is "THE DAY" in which we MUST meet. Daily would be good. Sunday is good. Saturday is good. But insisting on one or the other is "THE DAY" is wrong.
Luke 9:23
And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Luke 11:3‘Give us each day our daily bread.
Luke 19:47And He was teaching daily in the temple; but the chief priests and the scribes and the leading men among the people were trying to destroy Him,
Luke 22:53
While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours.”
Acts 2:42
They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46-47
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, [SUP]47 [/SUP]praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Acts 5:42
And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they kept right on teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
Acts 6:1
[ Choosing of the Seven ] Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food.
Acts 16:5
So the churches were being strengthened in the faith, and were increasing in number daily.
Acts 17:11
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 19:9
But when some were becoming hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the people, he withdrew from them and took away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
You suppose "almost the whole city" of Antioch in Pisidia were Jews? How about Philippi in Macedonia?
Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
This is in Thessalonica, another GENTILE city.
Why didn't Paul EVER spill the beans about the Sabbath not being required? If we should be worshipping on some other day, why didn't anybody say anything about it? Why is the entirety of the New Testament silent about a change in the day of worship?
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
You suppose "almost the whole city" of Antioch in Pisidia were Jews? How about Philippi in Macedonia?
Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
This is in Thessalonica, another GENTILE city.
Why didn't Paul EVER spill the beans about the Sabbath not being required? If we should be worshipping on some other day, why didn't anybody say anything about it? Why is the entirety of the New Testament silent about a change in the day of worship?
FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
[h=1]On Which Day Should Christians Worship?[/h]
By Jeremy Myers 12 Comments
Previously, I summarized how Christians began to meet on Sunday, rather than on the Sabbath (Saturday) as had been the custom of Jesus and His disciples. Today I want to address the question of which day Christians should meet to worship God, and tomorrow, whether or not Christians should observe the Sabbath.
So what is the biblical day for Christians to gather and worship? The answer is that there isn’t one. There is no set day for Christians to gather together to worship God. There are three reasons for this.
[h=2]Every Day is the Same[/h]Although many Christians believe that Sunday morning is the “set time” for Christian worship, this cannot be defended from Scripture. Sunday morning is simply a tradition. It is not a command. Some in the early church were arguing about the proper day to gather, and Paul responded by saying, “let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or… Sabbaths” (Col 2:16).
In Christ, every day is the same. In Christ, it does no matter if one group wants to meet on Sunday morning at 11:00 am, and a different group decides to meet on Wednesday night at 7:00 PM. Both are acceptable.
[h=2]People are the Church[/h]Of course, the act of meeting together with other Christians is not itself “church.” It is commonly heard in books, and on blogs, and even from pulpits nowadays that one does not “go to church.” Church does not occur just because a group of people who follow Jesus meet on a certain day, at a certain time, in a certain building. That can be part of church, but it is not the sum total of church.
Church is not a place, a building, or an event. Church is the people of God who follow Jesus into the world. Part of following Jesus into the world will include meeting together with other believers for encouragement and edification, but this gathering is not the sum total of church. Church consists of the people of God, whether they are gathered together or not.
[h=2]Worship is a Way of Life[/h]Related to the previous two points, worship is not something that only takes place when believers are gathered, prayers and said, sermons are heard, and songs are sung. Worship is an all-encompassing way of life. You can worship God individually, on your own, or in groups. You can worship God in nature, or in a bar. You can worship God on your couch while watching TV, at your desk at work, or at your table eating a meal with your family. You can worship God when you are reading the Bible, or when you are reading TIME magazine. Worship is a way of living that invites God into everything you think, say, and do.
Is this really worship?
[h=2]Summary[/h]So when the previous three points are understood, it becomes obvious that the question “On Which Day Should Christians Worship God?” is a nonsense question, and actually betrays numerous misunderstandings about church and about worship.
But if the question really must be answered, here it is: We should worship God every day, everywhere, in every way.
That won’t satisfy the religious person who really wants an answer so they can know whether or not they are fulfilling their religious obligations (I had a woman tell me than once), but… such is the life of grace.
This post is based on the Grace Commentary for Luke 6:6-11.
[h=1]On Which Day Should Christians Worship?[/h]
By Jeremy Myers 12 Comments
Previously, I summarized how Christians began to meet on Sunday, rather than on the Sabbath (Saturday) as had been the custom of Jesus and His disciples. Today I want to address the question of which day Christians should meet to worship God, and tomorrow, whether or not Christians should observe the Sabbath.
So what is the biblical day for Christians to gather and worship? The answer is that there isn’t one. There is no set day for Christians to gather together to worship God. There are three reasons for this.
[h=2]Every Day is the Same[/h]Although many Christians believe that Sunday morning is the “set time” for Christian worship, this cannot be defended from Scripture. Sunday morning is simply a tradition. It is not a command. Some in the early church were arguing about the proper day to gather, and Paul responded by saying, “let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or… Sabbaths” (Col 2:16).
In Christ, every day is the same. In Christ, it does no matter if one group wants to meet on Sunday morning at 11:00 am, and a different group decides to meet on Wednesday night at 7:00 PM. Both are acceptable.
[h=2]People are the Church[/h]Of course, the act of meeting together with other Christians is not itself “church.” It is commonly heard in books, and on blogs, and even from pulpits nowadays that one does not “go to church.” Church does not occur just because a group of people who follow Jesus meet on a certain day, at a certain time, in a certain building. That can be part of church, but it is not the sum total of church.
Church is not a place, a building, or an event. Church is the people of God who follow Jesus into the world. Part of following Jesus into the world will include meeting together with other believers for encouragement and edification, but this gathering is not the sum total of church. Church consists of the people of God, whether they are gathered together or not.
[h=2]Worship is a Way of Life[/h]Related to the previous two points, worship is not something that only takes place when believers are gathered, prayers and said, sermons are heard, and songs are sung. Worship is an all-encompassing way of life. You can worship God individually, on your own, or in groups. You can worship God in nature, or in a bar. You can worship God on your couch while watching TV, at your desk at work, or at your table eating a meal with your family. You can worship God when you are reading the Bible, or when you are reading TIME magazine. Worship is a way of living that invites God into everything you think, say, and do.
[h=2]Summary[/h]So when the previous three points are understood, it becomes obvious that the question “On Which Day Should Christians Worship God?” is a nonsense question, and actually betrays numerous misunderstandings about church and about worship.
But if the question really must be answered, here it is: We should worship God every day, everywhere, in every way.
That won’t satisfy the religious person who really wants an answer so they can know whether or not they are fulfilling their religious obligations (I had a woman tell me than once), but… such is the life of grace.
This post is based on the Grace Commentary for Luke 6:6-11.
Seriously? Just asking here
A lunar calendar is a calendar that is based on cycles of the lunar phases. Because there are slightly more than twelve lunations (synodic months) in a solar year, the period of 12 lunar months (354.37 days) is sometimes referred to as a lunar year.
A common purely lunar calendar is the Islamic calendar or Hijri Qamari calendar. A feature of the Islamic calendar is that a year is always 12 months, so the months are not linked with the seasons and drift each solar year by 11 to 12 days. It comes back to the position it had in relation to the solar year approximately every 33 Islamic years. It is used mainly for religious purposes, but in Saudi Arabia it is the official calendar. Other lunar calendars often include extra months added occasionally to synchronize it with the solar calendar.
The oldest known lunar calendar was found in Scotland; it dates back to around 10000 BP.[SUP][1][/SUP]
[h=2]Lunisolar calendars[edit][/h]Main article: Lunisolar calendar
Most calendars referred to as "lunar" calendars are in fact lunisolar calendars. That is, months reflect the lunar cycle, but then intercalary months (e.g. "second Adar" in the Hebrew calendar) are added to bring the calendar year into synchronisation with the solar year. Some examples are the Chinese and Hindu calendars. Some other calendar systems used in antiquity were also lunisolar.
All these calendars have a variable number of months in a year. The reason for this is that a solar year is not equal in length to an exact number of lunations, so without the addition of intercalary months the seasons would drift each year. To synchronise the year, a thirteen-month year is needed every two or three years.
Some lunar calendars are calibrated by annual natural events which are affected by lunar cycles as well as the solar cycle. An example of this is the lunar calendar of the Banks Islands, which includes three months in which the edible palolo worm mass on the beaches. These events occur at the last quarter of the lunar month, as the reproductive cycle of the palolos is synchronised with the moon.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Even though the Gregorian calendar is in common and legal use, lunar and lunisolar calendars serve to determine traditional holidays in many parts of the world, including India, China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Nepal. Such holidays include Ramadan, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Tết (Vietnamese New Year), Mid-Autumn Festival/Chuseok and Nepal Sambat and Mongolian New Year as called Tsagaan sar.
A lunar calendar is a calendar that is based on cycles of the lunar phases. Because there are slightly more than twelve lunations (synodic months) in a solar year, the period of 12 lunar months (354.37 days) is sometimes referred to as a lunar year.
A common purely lunar calendar is the Islamic calendar or Hijri Qamari calendar. A feature of the Islamic calendar is that a year is always 12 months, so the months are not linked with the seasons and drift each solar year by 11 to 12 days. It comes back to the position it had in relation to the solar year approximately every 33 Islamic years. It is used mainly for religious purposes, but in Saudi Arabia it is the official calendar. Other lunar calendars often include extra months added occasionally to synchronize it with the solar calendar.
The oldest known lunar calendar was found in Scotland; it dates back to around 10000 BP.[SUP][1][/SUP]
[h=2]Lunisolar calendars[edit][/h]Main article: Lunisolar calendar
Most calendars referred to as "lunar" calendars are in fact lunisolar calendars. That is, months reflect the lunar cycle, but then intercalary months (e.g. "second Adar" in the Hebrew calendar) are added to bring the calendar year into synchronisation with the solar year. Some examples are the Chinese and Hindu calendars. Some other calendar systems used in antiquity were also lunisolar.
All these calendars have a variable number of months in a year. The reason for this is that a solar year is not equal in length to an exact number of lunations, so without the addition of intercalary months the seasons would drift each year. To synchronise the year, a thirteen-month year is needed every two or three years.
Some lunar calendars are calibrated by annual natural events which are affected by lunar cycles as well as the solar cycle. An example of this is the lunar calendar of the Banks Islands, which includes three months in which the edible palolo worm mass on the beaches. These events occur at the last quarter of the lunar month, as the reproductive cycle of the palolos is synchronised with the moon.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Even though the Gregorian calendar is in common and legal use, lunar and lunisolar calendars serve to determine traditional holidays in many parts of the world, including India, China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Nepal. Such holidays include Ramadan, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Tết (Vietnamese New Year), Mid-Autumn Festival/Chuseok and Nepal Sambat and Mongolian New Year as called Tsagaan sar.
Here is an interesting treatise on the Hebrew Calendar if you like a little "light" reading...
The Hebrew Calendar: A Mathematical Introduction
The Hebrew Calendar: A Mathematical Introduction