Sabbath Law and Rest

[phil112]

Pasting from another post...........
Whether one observes Sunday or the Seventh Day, it is a gift to mankind to rest from the six laborial days, and to enhance our personal relation with God.

I prefer the day in the order it occurred................We cannot fault mankind for what God has said; no reason to fault Him. After all, He is perfect.

Since I am disabled/retired I don't need to rest a full day now, as I get plenty of rest (inactivity) during the week. I believe in keeping God and Christ near our hearts and minds continuously. "Pray without ceasing" comes to mind. The day one chooses is that individuals choice. That we keep our mind on the Lord as much as possible, is the exhortation. Not sure what you mean by "we cannot fault mankind for what God has said", but we can fault man for insisting that we follow a law that is not applicable to us. Christ's death set us free and we are strongly encouraged to not put ourselves under bondage again.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you read what I posted, there is no argument here with whatever you have decided to believe or others. Here is the part you did not paste as a quote:

"That just does not make sense to me.

If it does to any others in the sight of Yahweh, then according to Paul there is no guilt, no sin. I will stick with the original order."

The quote and respose you have placed sounds as if you would rather fight than understand that I understand others may do as they please. As for obeying what I believe is to be obeyed while living in the grace of God, people did this since the first man. The prime example is David in Psalm 32, and again in Psalm 51.

Since I am disabled/retired I don't need to rest a full day now, as I get plenty of rest (inactivity) during the week. I believe in keeping God and Christ near our hearts and minds continuously. "Pray without ceasing" comes to mind. The day one chooses is that individuals choice. That we keep our mind on the Lord as much as possible, is the exhortation. Not sure what you mean by "we cannot fault mankind for what God has said", but we can fault man for insisting that we follow a law that is not applicable to us. Christ's death set us free and we are strongly encouraged to not put ourselves under bondage again.

 

[Karraster]

If you read what I posted, there is no argument here with whatever you have decided to believe or others. Here is the part you did not paste as a quote:

"That just does not make sense to me.

If it does to any others in the sight of Yahweh, then according to Paul there is no guilt, no sin. I will stick with the original order."

The quote and respose you have placed sounds as if you would rather fight than understand that I understand others may do as they please. As for obeying what I believe is to be obeyed while living in the grace of God, people did this since the first man. The prime example is David in Psalm 32, and again in Psalm 51.

Brother JJ isn't it such a blessing we need only please our Father. Your post made perfect sense.

 

[Laodicea]

The question should read the 7th day

 

[Laodicea]

The Bible says that God blessed the 7th day at creation. No other day has been blessed. The blessing of the 7th day has not been removed.

 

[phil112]

If you read what I posted, there is no argument here with whatever you have decided to believe or others. Here is the part you did not paste as a quote:

"That just does not make sense to me.

If it does to any others in the sight of Yahweh, then according to Paul there is no guilt, no sin. I will stick with the original order."

The quote and respose you have placed sounds as if you would rather fight than understand that I understand others may do as they please. As for obeying what I believe is to be obeyed while living in the grace of God, people did this since the first man. The prime example is David in Psalm 32, and again in Psalm 51.

Explain clearly why you felt the need to say "We cannot fault mankind for what God has said; no reason to fault Him."

 

[JaumeJ]

There is no mystery here except perhaps your compulsion to argue. God gave the command.......man cannot be faulted for being led to believe he is above God in changing the order of what He has clearly declared. Looking for fault begins with allegations without first understanding.

Explain clearly why you felt the need to say "We cannot fault mankind for what God has said; no reason to fault Him."

 

[phil112]

There is no mystery here except perhaps your compulsion to argue. God gave the command.......man cannot be faulted for being led to believe he is above God in changing the order of what He has clearly declared. Looking for fault begins with allegations without first understanding.

God did not change the order of what He declared. It was His plan from day one. Don't you understand that? You don't want anyone (presumably me, from what I gathered) to fault man because man has an erroneous doctrine? If it isn't man's fault, whose fault is it God's? How ludicrous. Anytime I see false doctrine being advertised I will say something if I am in a position to let me voice be heard.

Looking for fault begins with allegations without first understanding

I understand perfectly well. That is why you and others get so defensive about old testament law. We have a new and better covenant that you reject, and then, just like a liberal, blame it someone else. The problem is someone trying to say we have an obligation to keep the sabbath. We don't, and I will defend that 'til my death.
Here is what the Lord told Paul:

Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

Here is how Paul felt about the gospel:

But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

How serious is defense of the word? Paul got right up in Peter's face about it:

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

You don't want to hear from me? Don't prescribe or endorse false doctrine.

 

[JaumeJ]

Phil,

I have seen your posts always telling those who obey Jesus that they are upset when you talk about Old Testament law.

First learn the difference between good laws and bad laws. Then see if they are not fitted into the new man we are made by the cleansing of the Blood of the Lamb of Yahweh. Now read what our Savior says about obeying the commandments in the gospels, then in Revelation.

Sure, you will find millions of people who will tell you all the law was abolished on the cross, however you will not find many who know it is the curse of the law, that is death, which is abolished.

We who know not only live in grace, we glorify our heavenly Father in any manner within the ability given to us, which is not much, yet we glorify Him by not being ashamed to obey Him as much as is given us, knowing our actual salvation is in the grace afforded by the cross.

If you do not understand plain words, then you really are just arguing to continue this vein with me, with RedTent, with Karraster, and all who believe obedience of Jesus Christ is paramount in our daily walk given to each of us.

Jesus, Yeshua, tells us if we diminish any of the laws we too will be diminished in heaven. There is never any harm in a desire to obey, but intentional disobedience is likened to witchcraft by our Father. There is no need to fear obeying Him because we live in grace should we ever falter, and we do and will until we are perfected by Him on His Day.

 

[KohenMatt]

Hey Matt,

Cool on this for you,



Do you believe you can lose your salvation?

I don't think so. Unless that repentance and "salvation experience" wasn't genuine to begin with. And I mean that with all humility and reverance to God. Honestly, that's not a hill I'm willing to die on because that decision is far above my pay grade, if you know what I mean. I've heard the verses and the arguments, but I leave that one to God. My general attitude is that I'd rather focus on the here and now with the people God has put in my life, than thinking about the end result.

(Again, spoken with all humility, reverance and respect to my Creator and Savior.)

 

[Brother_Don]

The book of Malachi is the last book of old testament, its only four chapters. Reading Malachi we see the Almighty say He doesn't change. In 4:4 we are being told to remember the law of Moses. i'm thankfull for the book of Malachi, the Almighty knew people would try changing what He said, so i believe He told us He doesn't change so we would see that the new fits in old, and not against it.

 

[phil112]

................Sure, you will find millions of people who will tell you all the law was abolished on the cross, however you will not find many who know it is the curse of the law, that is death, which is abolished..........................

Then why does Paul tell us this:

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

and this

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

I said nothing about it being abolished. It doesn't apply to the new covenant Christian. NONE OF IT. You want to follow it? Go ahead, no skin off my nose...you want to tell me I am supposed to when the scripture says no? Who's word do think I am going to listen?

If you do not understand plain words, then you really are just arguing to continue this vein with me, with RedTent, with Karraster, and all who believe obedience of Jesus Christ is paramount in our daily walk given to each of us.

Since you do understand plain words (insert roll eyes emoticon) then you won't mind explaining the 5th chapter of Galatians to me. Go ahead and get started, I am waiting.

Jesus, Yeshua, tells us if we diminish any of the laws we too will be diminished in heaven....................

Where does it say that? Your bible is different from mine.

 

[Jay1]

The over 1 billion that I was mainly refering to is the Catholic church. I just don't understand why it is so difficult for followers of Christ to keep the 4th commandment. We keep the other nine, as christians we don't blatantly break them, but when it comes to the 4th there is this big debate. Could it be that the devil is doing the same thing that he did in heaven, garden of Eden, with Cain and Abel, Children of Israel and the golden calf, Nadad and Abihu... telling us that we can worship God anyway we want. God has given us guidelines. Jesus is our perfect example.

When we as christians sin we are to ask God for forgivness through Jesus Christ. Whether it is breaking the sabbath or any other sin, we need to ask for forgivness. We don't just sin and say oh well Jesus die for my sins so I do not have to ask for forgiveness. God knows our hearts.

You ask me where I got the idea from that over a billion keep Sunday as the Sabbath, well here it is. The Catholic church is over 1 billion strong, along with its protestant daughter churches they practice keeping Sunday as the Sabbath. They admit to changing the day to Sunday (traditions over the commandments of God). Jesus and his disciples kept Saturday as the Sabbath, so I keep Saturday. There is not one single scripture in the bible that tells us to keep Sunday as the Sabbath. I try by the grace of God to be one of his people, living by this gospel -Revelation 12:17, 14:6-12.
Check out these sites and come to your own conclusion, God bless.
www.godssabbathtruth.com www.sabbathtruth.com

 

[Jay1]

Paul is referring to the law of sin and death.

 

[Hizikyah]

To the OP, do not kill is not a suggestion, why is the 4th Commandment any different?

Also Sabbath is and has always been for Hebrew and non-Hebrew alike:

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

 

[Hizikyah]

Then why does Paul tell us this:For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


and this But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1. Because he understood the "2 greatest Commandments summed up the Law didn't do away with it:

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

2. Everything mentioned in the fruits of the Spirit is Commanded or promoted in Yahweh's Law, EVERYTHING in the fruits of the flesh is against Yahweh's Law. If one is led by the Spirit of Yahweh they are not going to do anything in oppisition to Yahweh's Law thus they wont get any of the curses, they wont transgress it. When one is walking Lawfully the Lw does not pounce on them, but when one is transgressing, they will "bump head" on the Law.

If "Paul" were destroying, doing away, or saying we dont have to follow Yahweh's Law why would he write this?

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.




Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

 

[Jay1]

Well said, thank you so much for finding that scripture. I wonder how many "christians" will still read that scripture and try to justify keeping man's traditions?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

A woman has 10 silver coins, she loses one, then seeks, finds, repents, and finally rejoices. Yeshua said that if we had ears to hear, then we would understand.

Watch or read transcript.

[video=vimeo;50006054]http://vimeo.com/50006054[/video]

 

[KohenMatt]

Then why does Paul tell us this: and this

I said nothing about it being abolished. It doesn't apply to the new covenant Christian. NONE OF IT. You want to follow it? Go ahead, no skin off my nose...you want to tell me I am supposed to when the scripture says no? Who's word do think I am going to listen?[/SIZE]


Since you do understand plain words (insert roll eyes emoticon) then you won't mind explaining the 5th chapter of Galatians to me. Go ahead and get started, I am waiting.

Where does it say that? Your bible is different from mine.

Matthew 5:17-19 "“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


I listen to His words more than anyone else's.

 

[Veritas]

Does God bless a Saturday Sabbath more than a Sunday Sabbath?

Sabbath comes from the Hebrew word "Shabbat" which roughly means "resting". The Shabbat was shown to us by YHWH's example in the book of Genesis 2:2. Moses tells us that YHWH blessed that particular day in verse 3.

Based on the scriptures, there is no indication that YHWH blessed the 1st day as a weekly Shabbat but He did instruct us to keep the Shabbat set apart. Not that the body cannot or should not meet together to worship on the 1st day or any other day. That is an entirely different issue. But saying that Sunday is the Shabbat is another thing. Nowhere in scripture does it tell us to just pick a day.

As you pointed out, Shabbat begins at sundown on day 6 and continues until sundown on day 7. This is why we westerners get confused about the passage in Acts when the believers met on Shabbat and were still together listening to Paul preach on day 1 because day 1 began at sundown. They still together fellowshipping. I'm sure this happened often.

I think it is interesting that in Hebrew there are several words that in the English translate to "worship". Those Hebrew words can mean adore or prostrate oneself. Or, they can mean labor or toil depending on the context. I try not to get too hung up on words but I want to have a good understanding and I desire to "worship Him in spirit and in truth". I know something is required of me in order to do that. Study, study, study.

It's funny, the more I learn, the more I understand how much there is to learn and how much that I don't know!

One last thought, the 4th Commandment says, "Remember" the Sabbath. Like we would forget? I guess we did.

This is not directed at you LT, but we fight for the 10 Commandments to be left in public buildings and turn around and say they are not in force. Which it is? Why should we keep them if they don't mean anything?