Sabbath

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kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
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You do know that is a direct quote from Jer 31:31-34 and the word for Law in verse 33 is Torah, don't you?

So what happens is that God writes His Torah on our hearts.
It is a quote from Jeremiah 31:33-34, but from the beginning of Hebrews 10 it's all about the law being a shadow of things to come and not the true form of those realities. The writer of the epistle writes of the sacrifices included in the law having ceased with the coming of Christ. "When he said above, 'You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings' (these are offered according to the law), then he added, 'Behold, I have come to do your will.' He does away with the first in order to establish the second" (vv. 8,9).

john832, if you have been told the first was not done away with, you have been hoodwinked. You have been taught the very opposite of what scripture plainly states. In 31:33-34, Jeremiah prophesies the coming of the new covenant. The old law, which has been done away with, is not the law which will be written on hearts, it is the law of Christ, who "does away with the first in order to establish the second". As for the word torah, its basic meaning is "teaching", whether of the wise man instructing his son (Proverbs 3:1ff.) or of God instructing Israel. It is not used exclusively to refer to the Old Testament law.


 
Dec 26, 2014
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yahweh does not contradict himself. the 'new torah' on the hearts of his children does not contradict the 'old torah', but rather confirms/completes/affirms/ completely, 'naturally'(new life nature(new heart) to do what yahweh teaches/EVERY WORD,LIVING,ALIVE,PRESENT NOW,ETERNALLY/ always(every moment) - what he teaches/how to live / has not changed.). yahweh is holy, his children must be holy also, just as he has always said. yahshua is perfect, his children must be perfect also, just as he told his own disciples(not the world, the world cannot understand one jot nor tittle of his word/light/truth)...
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Perhaps I could have expressed myself a little better, prove-all. Which is the true Church? I'm keen to know. The false one will be any that doesn't agree with it, I suppose.
where ever the true church has been in time, is not what we call christine worlds religion
the church has been a small flock,was taken over by roman doctrine and persecuted.

“The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:
and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches”

Christ is in the midst of those seven churches,
there was more then 7 in the mail route back then.
and where would his church be now.

his church only those 7 ?

the seven Church eras are not only history in Asia,
the seven churches are the seven eras from the time of Christ to the end.

why where they even in the book of revelation if not for future use.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John”

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it:
for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

- this door is still open to be a pillar in his temple,
to patient saints who keep his commandments.

he will give out the spirit of knowledge
the latter rain is falling.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

- we are in this church era, the Laodiceans.

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

- he will pour out the spirit of the fear of the lord.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which
I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither,
and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


The false one was unholy empire doctrine, mystery inequity, mystery babalyn
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
349
228
43
where ever the true church has been in time, is not what we call christine worlds religion
the church has been a small flock,was taken over by roman doctrine and persecuted.

The false one was unholy empire doctrine, mystery inequity, mystery babalyn


Okay, so what would the name of this true church, a small flock, be?
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
349
228
43
yahweh does not contradict himself. the 'new torah' on the hearts of his children does not contradict the 'old torah', but rather confirms/completes/affirms/ completely, 'naturally'(new life nature(new heart) to do what yahweh teaches/EVERY WORD,LIVING,ALIVE,PRESENT NOW,ETERNALLY/ always(every moment) - what he teaches/how to live / has not changed.). yahweh is holy, his children must be holy also, just as he has always said. yahshua is perfect, his children must be perfect also, just as he told his own disciples(not the world, the world cannot understand one jot nor tittle of his word/light/truth)...

Jesus has done away wih the old, Jeff. Is that what you're saying? The old has outlived its usefulness, right?
 
Mar 4, 2013
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It is a quote from Jeremiah 31:33-34, but from the beginning of Hebrews 10 it's all about the law being a shadow of things to come and not the true form of those realities. The writer of the epistle writes of the sacrifices included in the law having ceased with the coming of Christ. "When he said above, 'You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings' (these are offered according to the law), then he added, 'Behold, I have come to do your will.' He does away with the first in order to establish the second" (vv. 8,9).

john832, if you have been told the first was not done away with, you have been hoodwinked. You have been taught the very opposite of what scripture plainly states. In 31:33-34, Jeremiah prophesies the coming of the new covenant. The old law, which has been done away with, is not the law which will be written on hearts, it is the law of Christ, who "does away with the first in order to establish the second". As for the word torah, its basic meaning is "teaching", whether of the wise man instructing his son (Proverbs 3:1ff.) or of God instructing Israel. It is not used exclusively to refer to the Old Testament law.


Shadows are not there without substance and light. Even though the new is here the shadow is still cast.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which "are" a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:16-17

"are" is present tense.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Okay, so what would the name of this true church, a small flock, be?
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.

is everyone preaching the gospel of christ, or the comming kingdom to rule on earth.

the [end] come, this referses to an end of ere or age, not end end time.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Shadows are not there without substance and light. Even though the new is here the shadow is still cast.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which "are" a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:16-17

"are" is present tense.

but the body [is] of Christ. is should not be there , not wrote by paul.

changes the whole meaning of that verse
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find [faith] on the earth?

-millions of people have faith in Christ, bet allways will be,

could this be faith in his Sabbath?

like there was no faith or trust in the sabbath in the wilderness,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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if you mean go by what the false church has promoted when the false church under hasatan authorized the
supposed change to sun-god-worship day,
then you are absolutely and totally and forever wrong.
that's interesting. I didn't realise that Acts 21.7 was written 3 or 400 years after the death of Christ. For they certainly worshiped on the first day of the week (Sunday to us). Someone should have warned them

It was on the first day of the week that Christ rose from the dead and it was on the first day of the week when the disciples received their special gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find [faith] on the earth?

-millions of people have faith in Christ, bet allways will be,

could this be faith in his Sabbath?

like there was no faith or trust in the sabbath in the wilderness,
which Bible do you use? The Sabbath was faithfully observed in the wilderness, so much so that a man was stoned for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.

is everyone preaching the gospel of christ, or the comming kingdom to rule on earth.

the [end] come, this referses to an end of ere or age, not end end time.
Jesus came preaching the kingly rule of God. 'The kingly rule of God is at hand, repent and believe the Gospel' (Marl 1.15). So Jesus saw the Gospel of the Kingly Rule as referring to the Gospel of the grace of God.

unless of course you do not believe that Jesus preached the Gospel? e.g. John 3.16
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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which Bible do you use? The Sabbath was faithfully observed in the wilderness, so much so that a man was stoned for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
if he was stoned to death for not keeping it, a sever punishment, you call that faithfully observed
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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which Bible do you use? The Sabbath was faithfully observed in the wilderness, so much so that a man was stoned for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.
entering rest

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering
into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us,
even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them,
because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as
he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise,
And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto,
and they to whom the good tidings were before preached
failed to enter in because of disobedience,

God said they will not enter His rest, but they failed because of disobedience. the 7th day Sabbath

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David
so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.
A rest remains, but notice the issue is do not disobey.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle
which is called the Holy of holies;

Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.


God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts. that they should live be every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth) not by bread alone.
what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein, and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

Exo 16:34 As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.

Exo 16:35 And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.


40 years.
this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3]. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week
of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root


Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it "because that in it he had rested from all his work".

Wait, wait. We aren't done yet. The question to ask now is, once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it."

Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel. He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it. Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something? Apparently many think so.

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."

copied from fellow brother.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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but the body [is] of Christ. is should not be there , not wrote by paul.

changes the whole meaning of that verse
well actually it does not change its meaning. 'but the body Christ's' means the same thing. It has replaced the shadows.

According to your interpretation Paul was encouraging the Colossians to have distinctions in meat and drink. which was something he always spoke against. The passage from verses 16-23 is warning against having pressure put on about things that are not required as anyone who reads the whole will see. Your interpretation is invalid. I know of no recognised scholar who agrees with you.,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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if he was stoned to death for not keeping it, a sever punishment, you call that faithfully observed
it shows that the remainder were faithfully observing it. Are you incapable of intelligent thought.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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well actually it does not change its meaning. 'but the body Christ's' means the same thing. It has replaced the shadows.

According to your interpretation Paul was encouraging the Colossians to have distinctions in meat and drink. which was something he always spoke against. The passage from verses 16-23 is warning against having pressure put on about things that are not required as anyone who reads the whole will see. Your interpretation is invalid. I know of no recognised scholar who agrees with you.,
the wise and the proud God calls folish, do you believe man, or the bible?

come to him as a child, and forget what man taught you, and be teachable again he says
 
Dec 26, 2014
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there's a lot you don't realize, and maybe never will.

go back to Scripture, as entrusted to the Jews, and ask Hebrews faithful to Yahshua Hamashiach about the TRUTH, as gentiles haven't known it since constntne, as you have confirmed.

that's interesting. I didn't realise that Acts 21.7 was written 3 or 400 years after the death of Christ. For they certainly worshiped on the first day of the week (Sunday to us). Someone should have warned them

It was on the first day of the week that Christ rose from the dead and it was on the first day of the week when the disciples received their special gift of the Holy Spirit.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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400
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it shows that the remainder were faithfully observing it. Are you incapable of intelligent thought.
so thats why allmost every male in the wilderness died there,

not seeing the promised land, was because of no faith in sabbath
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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entering rest

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering
into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?
By failing to enter Canaan when God told them to, thus failing to enter into their rest,

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us,
even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them,
because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.
which was why they refused to advance on Canaan in Numbers 13-14.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as
he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Israel failed to enter into its rest in Canaan (their sons did enter into that rest), so when we believe in Christ we also enter into His rest.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise,
And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.
yes it is an illustration. God entered into rest and so Israel should have entered into rest by conquering Canaan. but they failed because of unbelief (even though they observed the Sabbath). The seventh day is only mentioned in connection with God and in Genesis 2 is NOT called the Sabbath.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
which they did not for instead they had thirty eighty years of unrest in the wilderness.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto,
and they to whom the good tidings were before preached
failed to enter in because of disobedience,

God said they will not enter His rest, but they failed because of disobedience. the 7th day Sabbath
where does it mention the seven day Sabbath? The rest that they failed to enter into was rest in the land of Canaan. They wer already observing the Sabbath!!!!

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David
so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
Yes they were not to harden their hearts with regard to believing in Jesus Christ and thus fail to enter into His rest as described in Matt 11.28-30. They were to learn from the failure of that generation of Israel to enter into rest in Canaan.,

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.
Ye for the rest in Canaan was shortlived and temporary. But when we enter into Christ's rest it is permanent and for ever.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Absolutely. And that Sabbath rest is what the Sabbath pointed forward to, finding rest in Christ when we cease from doing our own works in order to be saved, and trust fully in Him and what He has done for us. That is why the observance of the Sabbath is no longer required. It has found its fulfilment in Christ.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.
As I have just pointed out, when we enter into Christ we cease from our own works. We trust in HIS work. And then we allow Him to live out His works through us.

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.
A rest remains, but notice the issue is do not disobey.
yes, the rest which remains is rest in Christ. We must give all diligence to entering into Christ's rest (Matt 11.28-30)

It was written to people who were hesitating about doing so, as is the whole of the letter