Sabbath

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Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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Hmmm, so you actually do NOT understand what the New Covenant is? Let's see what the New Covenant is and also who it is made with...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

The problem with the 'Old" Covenant was not the Covenant or the Law, the problem was with the people...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith...

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The word for Law here is Torah. The New Covenant is the writing of God's Law in the hearts and minds of those He calls and brings under the bond of the Covenant...

Eze 20:37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This was predicted prior to Christ's first coming. How about now?

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Jesus Christ and His present day role.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The New Covenant...

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So we see the New Covenant is not the doing away with the Law but the changing of the human heart to be able to live by the Law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Law is still in force and in the verses that follow this passage, Christ shows what the New Covenant really is...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

And so on, you can read Mat 5, 6 and 7 and the New Testament and see that Christ magnified the Law...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

So when speaking of the New Covenant, perhaps a little study in to what the New Covenant REALLY is might be in order.
Amen and Amen !
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Hmmm, so you actually do NOT understand what the New Covenant is? Let's see what the New Covenant is and also who it is made with...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

The problem with the 'Old" Covenant was not the Covenant or the Law, the problem was with the people...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith...

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The word for Law here is Torah. The New Covenant is the writing of God's Law in the hearts and minds of those He calls and brings under the bond of the Covenant...

Eze 20:37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This was predicted prior to Christ's first coming. How about now?

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Jesus Christ and His present day role.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The New Covenant...

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So we see the New Covenant is not the doing away with the Law but the changing of the human heart to be able to live by the Law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Law is still in force and in the verses that follow this passage, Christ shows what the New Covenant really is...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

And so on, you can read Mat 5, 6 and 7 and the New Testament and see that Christ magnified the Law...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

So when speaking of the New Covenant, perhaps a little study in to what the New Covenant REALLY is might be in order.

t<><

ISRAEL Literally MEANS ISRAEL in the Bible, the true Jewish Believers who are actually blood decendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

NO, Having the faith of Abraham does not make us spiritual Israelites, IN FACT Abraham was NOT an Israelite, he was a Chaldean. ALL 144,000 In the Book or Revalation, ARE BLOOD DESCENDENTS.

GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ISRAEL, NOR DID HE DIVORCE THEM. The Church-age falls between the 69th and the 70th Week of Daniel. The 70th Week of Daniel will happen AFTER Born Again New Testament Believers are CALLED OUT TO GO TO THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB, THEN, the 70th Week of Daniel will be Completed. WHY DO THE 144,000 have to be 100% ALL BLOOD DECENDENTS? Because the Covenant With ISRAEL is an everlasting Covenant with the BLOOD, MORTAL DECENDANTS, who will inherit the LAND in the thousand YEAR KINGDOM.


Psalm 105:3-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Honor His holy name; let the hearts of those who seek Yahweh rejoice.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Search for the LORD and for His strength; seek His face always.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Remember the wonderful works He has done, His wonders, and the judgments He has pronounced,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] you offspring of Abraham His servant, Jacob’s descendants—His chosen ones.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] He is the LORD our God; His judgments ⌊govern⌋ the whole earth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] He remembers His covenant forever, the promise He ordainedfor a thousand generations
{A Thousand Generations, can be symbolism for "AN INFINITE NUMBER".}
[SUP]9 [/SUP] ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and confirmed to Jacob as a decree and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “I will give the land of Canaan to you as your inherited portion.”


THOSE DESCENDANTS DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION ARE SEALED IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES TO CONTINUE TO INHERIT THE LAND, ON INTO CHRIST'S 1000 YEAR REIGN FROM DAVID'S THRONE. We will Reign with HIM in our IMMORTAL BODIES AS PRIESTS, TEACHING the Mortal Children of the MORTAL ISRAELITES WHO WILL CONTINUE TO INHERIT THE LAND.

COUNT THE GENERATIONS YOURSELF AND REPENT OF THINKING YOU ARE A SPIRITUAL ISRAELITE. If it makes you feel better, you can call yourself a Spiritual Chaldean, who has the Faith of Abraham.


Let me guess, you are either a Pentecostal or a Charismatic, RIGHT?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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How do you tie what Paul said into that - that everyone is not a true Jew (of Israel) but that a man who has had his heart circumcised by the Holy Spirit is a true Jew? You don't think that refers to us, but only to Jewish heritage men?
 
Feb 12, 2017
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So what would you have me 'rectify seeing I am neither SDA nor Mormon or any other ? Do you think scripture or Jesus need correcting on which day is the Sabbath ?
Sorry, I thought that is what you were referring to since you wanted to follow the seventh day Sabbath. Clearly in the Bible we know the original purpose of the Sabbath. It was not that God was tired and needed to rest. It was to signify to all true believers that they were to do no works for their salvation. Their position as one of God's children. That is why the Jews were to do no work on the Sabbath. In our pride we feel we must do something for our salvation and God through the Sabbath teaches that is not so. This is a hard concept for a new or a young believer to grasp and it takes a lot of diligent searching of the Scriptures to see how this truth is presented. But let's go to Matthew 28:1.

In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

When you see that verse, you wonder what that has to do with the Sunday Sabbath. Unfortunately, this is one verse that was poorly translated by the King James Scholars. The word "day" is in italics in the KJV, because it is not in the original Greek text. Next,"day of the week" is wrong. The word in the Greek is "sabbaton". And do you want to know how amazing God is, that is the same word translated "Sabbath" I the first phrase of the verse! And better yet it is the plural form of Sabbath. So a better translation would be: " At the end of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn towards the first of the Sabbaths,". So God in His mercy lets us know that Sabbath changed with the advent of His Son Jesus Christ! Look it up if you don't believe me. You will be amazed that the answer has been right there in front of us for over 2000 years! And then you can seek the real reason for and behind the Sabbath in the Bible! I hope this helps, and am sorry for assuming you might be going down a wrong path. Please forgive me.
 
Feb 12, 2017
45
1
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Should have been "in the first phrase of the verse!" Sorry about the typing error, all thumbs tonight I guess.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
How do you tie what Paul said into that - that everyone is not a true Jew (of Israel) but that a man who has had his heart circumcised by the Holy Spirit is a true Jew? You don't think that refers to us, but only to Jewish heritage men?
Surprise, the Holy Spirit was at work getting people saved in the O.T. too.

The difference between the O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints is almost indistinguishable.

NO, a man has NEVER been saved by Keeping that Law. They were saved by Faith too.



An O.T. Saint is one who Believed that God would send a MESSIAH to save them from their sins.

A N.T. Saint is one who Believes GOD did send the MESSIAH, Jesus Christ to save us from our sins.



IT IS THE SAME FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.


Romans 3:28 (ASV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Romans 3:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. {That has always been the purpose of the LAW.}

Psalm 51:11 (ASV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Cast me not away from thy presence; And take not thy holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the Angel of His Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them All the days of old.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying: "Where is He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Yes I agree it is the same faith. My question was over Israel (of Jewish heritage only and never including us as you said) versus he is a true jew who has his heart circumcised. But it's okay I don't think you understood me. :)
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
Prove all;
In response to #19
Though the Law has never taught by keeping it you gain salvation. It is the way of life to live by according to Scripture. Is the Sabbath still valid today?
Heb 4:9 English Standard Version
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God
This doesn't say Jesus is your Sabbath rather to rest as Jesus does. Ya'll just because you believe that Sabbath is any day you don't understand the concept of salvation. It's just like you forget the love of God in Messiah for love of your understanding.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Yes I agree it is the same faith. My question was over Israel (of Jewish heritage only and never including us as you said) versus he is a true jew who has his heart circumcised. But it's okay I don't think you understood me. :)


YES, the True Jews are those who received a Circumcised Heart by the Holy Spirit and had the right bloodlines. I don't know about you, but I am a Gentile Believer with a Circumcised Heart, but I have NO BLOODLINE connection to ISRAEL. That explanation had to be presented by Paul, because in Paul's day, most Jews thought they were saved because of their Bloodline, and that God's Promises TO ISRAEL, included everyone with the right Bloodline. It NEVER was the Bloodline that equated to Salvation, but rather it always was the Circumcised Heart.

Oh, but it still does include us, but we do NOT REPLACE and claim the Promises TO descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Exactly then, where do we fit In?

LET me show you.

Here in the Gospel of John is something Jesus said that most Churches have misunderstood for Centuries, mostly because very FEW people have really thought it through.



John 10:14-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold
; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.”


When will the TWO FOLDS be ONE FLOCK?

After HE IS FINISHED bringing the Second FOLD to KNOW AND LOVE HIM, to the point they LISTEN TO HIS VOICE.

I know most Pastors and Churches assume the two folds are Jews and Gentiles, but that is not what I hear HIM saying in these verses.

When is the Birthday of the of the CHURCH?

Correct, it is the Day Pentecost, months or possibly a couple years in the future from when JESUS actually said this.

So therefore JESUS WAS TALKING TO THE LAST OF THE O.T. SAINTS, and thus the O.T. Saints are the First FOLD, and the Second FOLD is the N.T. Saints that will start the day of Pentecost after HIS Ascension. Now here is the REAL kicker, and I only learned this about 4 years ago; THE WORD CHURCH IS NOT IN THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS that the English Bibles were Translated from. The Greek word
ekklêsia actually translates to "Assembly", which is the EXACT SAME THING HE CALLED THE O.T. True Believers. Young's Literal Translation translated it CORRECTLY:


Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;


I repeat: When will the TWO FOLDS become ONE FLOCK? LITERALLY at the CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST to go to the Wedding of the Lamb. O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are Co-equally THE BRIDE OF CHRIST, THE ASSEMBLY HE HAS BEEN BUILDING, starting with ADAM and ending with the LAST N.T Saint to receive HIM as LORD.

HOW DO I PROVE THAT? Scripture plainly says it, but we were so busy looking down on JEWS for crucifying HIM, and so absorbed in the pride of calling HIS ASSEMBLY THE CHURCH, instead of translating the word LITERALLY, that it blinded us from recognizing that
the ASSEMBLY of True Believers are made up of BOTH O.T Saints and N.T. Saints:


Isaiah 62:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a virgin, So your sons will marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you.


Ephesians 5:23-24 (YLT)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] but even as the assembly is subject to Christ, so also are the wives to their own husbands in everything.


BOTH FOLDS are Co-equally the BRIDE.



 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
The two will become one in the hand of Messiah. Stick of Jacob, shoot of Jessie may as well reveal something
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
How do you tie what Paul said into that - that everyone is not a true Jew (of Israel) but that a man who has had his heart circumcised by the Holy Spirit is a true Jew? You don't think that refers to us, but only to Jewish heritage men?
Yes, and for being circumcised in the heart and walking with Jesus SOME people call you a judaizer....how ignorant is that !
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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Paul called those people that said we are to follow the law of Moses after coming to Christ as being Judaizers. They say it is a sin if we don't follow what God commanded in Moses. This comes in many forms from diet restrictions to keeping holy days and the feasts as they do.

Judaizers will say that you are sinning if you don't follow the Law of Moses which means strict adherence to the 10 commandments as "they deem them to be". Living by the letter of the law and not the spirit. Paul says that he never stood for this for even one hour so that the truth would remain in the Galatians.

We live by the life of Christ as believers and His life fulfills the intent of the law.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
Sorry, I thought that is what you were referring to since you wanted to follow the seventh day Sabbath. Clearly in the Bible we know the original purpose of the Sabbath. It was not that God was tired and needed to rest. It was to signify to all true believers that they were to do no works for their salvation. Their position as one of God's children. That is why the Jews were to do no work on the Sabbath. In our pride we feel we must do something for our salvation and God through the Sabbath teaches that is not so. This is a hard concept for a new or a young believer to grasp and it takes a lot of diligent searching of the Scriptures to see how this truth is presented. But let's go to Matthew 28:1.

In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

When you see that verse, you wonder what that has to do with the Sunday Sabbath. Unfortunately, this is one verse that was poorly translated by the King James Scholars. The word "day" is in italics in the KJV, because it is not in the original Greek text. Next,"day of the week" is wrong. The word in the Greek is "sabbaton". And do you want to know how amazing God is, that is the same word translated "Sabbath" I the first phrase of the verse! And better yet it is the plural form of Sabbath. So a better translation would be: " At the end of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn towards the first of the Sabbaths,". So God in His mercy lets us know that Sabbath changed with the advent of His Son Jesus Christ! Look it up if you don't believe me. You will be amazed that the answer has been right there in front of us for over 2000 years! And then you can seek the real reason for and behind the Sabbath in the Bible! I hope this helps, and am sorry for assuming you might be going down a wrong path. Please forgive me.
'Jesus Christ the same yesterday (kept the Sabbath) and today (keeps the Sabbath) and forever (will keep the Sabbath). Did you tear that out of your Bible when you figured out your own interpretation of scripture ? just a question, not an accusation ! ALL scripture is given for our learning, not only some.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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YES, the True Jews are those who received a Circumcised Heart by the Holy Spirit and had the right bloodlines. I don't know about you, but I am a Gentile Believer with a Circumcised Heart, but I have NO BLOODLINE connection to ISRAEL. That explanation had to be presented by Paul, because in Paul's day, most Jews thought they were saved because of their Bloodline, and that God's Promises TO ISRAEL, included everyone with the right Bloodline. It NEVER was the Bloodline that equated to Salvation, but rather it always was the Circumcised Heart.

Oh, but it still does include us, but we do NOT REPLACE and claim the Promises TO descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Exactly then, where do we fit In?

LET me show you.

Here in the Gospel of John is something Jesus said that most Churches have misunderstood for Centuries, mostly because very FEW people have really thought it through.



John 10:14-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold
; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.”


When will the TWO FOLDS be ONE FLOCK?

After HE IS FINISHED bringing the Second FOLD to KNOW AND LOVE HIM, to the point they LISTEN TO HIS VOICE.

I know most Pastors and Churches assume the two folds are Jews and Gentiles, but that is not what I hear HIM saying in these verses.

When is the Birthday of the of the CHURCH?

Correct, it is the Day Pentecost, months or possibly a couple years in the future from when JESUS actually said this.

So therefore JESUS WAS TALKING TO THE LAST OF THE O.T. SAINTS, and thus the O.T. Saints are the First FOLD, and the Second FOLD is the N.T. Saints that will start the day of Pentecost after HIS Ascension. Now here is the REAL kicker, and I only learned this about 4 years ago; THE WORD CHURCH IS NOT IN THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS that the English Bibles were Translated from. The Greek word
ekklêsia actually translates to "Assembly", which is the EXACT SAME THING HE CALLED THE O.T. True Believers. Young's Literal Translation translated it CORRECTLY:


Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;


I repeat: When will the TWO FOLDS become ONE FLOCK? LITERALLY at the CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST to go to the Wedding of the Lamb. O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are Co-equally THE BRIDE OF CHRIST, THE ASSEMBLY HE HAS BEEN BUILDING, starting with ADAM and ending with the LAST N.T Saint to receive HIM as LORD.

HOW DO I PROVE THAT? Scripture plainly says it, but we were so busy looking down on JEWS for crucifying HIM, and so absorbed in the pride of calling HIS ASSEMBLY THE CHURCH, instead of translating the word LITERALLY, that it blinded us from recognizing that
the ASSEMBLY of True Believers are made up of BOTH O.T Saints and N.T. Saints:


Isaiah 62:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a virgin, So your sons will marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you.


Ephesians 5:23-24 (YLT)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] but even as the assembly is subject to Christ, so also are the wives to their own husbands in everything.


BOTH FOLDS are Co-equally the BRIDE.



I don't look down on the jews. I agree with everything you've said mostly. I still think some of the words that say, for instance, hear ye, Israel, apply to me as well. When I read Israel, I don't just skip over it and say, oh, that only refers to Israel - it's not for me. I think my confusion was over you saying when it says "Israel" it is always and only referring to a bloodline. I don't think I will be treated differently than Israel. If I make the same mistakes they did in not trusting, I don't think I will be treated any differently. I guess I'm talking about the spirit of the words. It's okay though. We aren't always going to understand each other. :)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Yes, and for being circumcised in the heart and walking with Jesus SOME people call you a judaizer....how ignorant is that !
I've never been called a judaizer. I've been often called works oriented though because I believe I must continue in trust for saving.
 

beta

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Aug 8, 2016
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I don't look down on the jews. I agree with everything you've said mostly. I still think some of the words that say, for instance, hear ye, Israel, apply to me as well. When I read Israel, I don't just skip over it and say, oh, that only refers to Israel - it's not for me. I think my confusion was over you saying when it says "Israel" it is always and only referring to a bloodline. I don't think I will be treated differently than Israel. If I make the same mistakes they did in not trusting, I don't think I will be treated any differently. I guess I'm talking about the spirit of the words. It's okay though. We aren't always going to understand each other. :)
You are right - Jesus can and will make us 'one people' all under the same law and/or Will of God
In the Kingdom there will no longer be 'them and/or us - we will all be as one ! Acts 10v35.
If one is a spiritual Jew by the circumcision of the heart then one is a spiritual Israelite and the new Covenant applies to them. God has never made a covenant with gentiles or christians or any other - only Israel, therefore one must be converted.
 

beta

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Aug 8, 2016
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I've never been called a judaizer. I've been often called works oriented though because I believe I must continue in trust for saving.
No, only those who keep the sabbath and walk with Jesus 24/7 are called judaizers because they are seen as keeping the law of Moses. Jesus said He kept HIS FATHERS commandments, the 10 He gave personally Ex 20 and Deut 5v22-25 and Jesus expanded on as 'loving God and neighbour ....and so do we who keep the sabbath. The commandments that were given to Moses were 'contained in ordinances and abolished by Christ Eph 2v15 and have never been strictly given to christians.
So the question really is - did Jesus only keep the sabbath because He was a Jew and under Moses law or did He always do only what pleases His Father ? I go for the latter which has nothing to do with being jewish or under Moses law.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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No, only those who keep the sabbath and walk with Jesus 24/7 are called judaizers because they are seen as keeping the law of Moses. Jesus said He kept HIS FATHERS commandments, the 10 He gave personally Ex 20 and Deut 5v22-25 and Jesus expanded on as 'loving God and neighbour ....and so do we who keep the sabbath. The commandments that were given to Moses were 'contained in ordinances and abolished by Christ Eph 2v15 and have never been strictly given to christians.
So the question really is - did Jesus only keep the sabbath because He was a Jew and under Moses law or did He always do only what pleases His Father ? I go for the latter which has nothing to do with being jewish or under Moses law.
I think some look at obedience slightly differently than you do. I have puzzled long over the arguments people get into over this.

I think it's so hard for us because we have a default setting that always steers us back to an outward keeping of Gods' laws. I have felt that pull in me very often. But we know the words are spirit because God is Spirit. And we know the law is spiritual and good. We also know that if our inside/heart is clean, the outside just will be as well. And we know that God demands truth in the inward parts.

A person who looks at one day as holier should not be picked on. Neither should a person who views all days as holy be picked on. But we see this happening all of the time, both ways.

If someone says you don't need to worry about an outward keeping of the law they don't have it exactly right - not exactly. This would mean I am within the bounds of Gods' law if I shoot you? No. I must not shoot you. I break Gods' law if I shoot and murder you. My problem comes in if I think I am keeping Gods' law if I don't shoot you. I can be keeping that law outwardly but trespassing it inwardly - and God demands truth in the inward parts. Men judge outwardly but God judges inwardly.

And so also with keeping the Sabbath. If I keep it outwardly, I can say I don't break Gods' law regarding the Sabbath? I am judging outwardly but God judges by the heart, inwardly. But I could be trespassing His law inwardly.

So the problem is that I judge by a different way than God judges. He says anger in my heart means I have already murdered. If I manage to refrain from the outward breaking of the law, will I boast that I've always kept that law? That is the definition of a hypocrite. Showing one thing outwardly while doing the opposite inwardly. He wants a pure heart, not a clean outside of the cup with filth inside the cup.

It is how we go at obedience. Do we go at it from the outside? Then we are doing it wrong. We are taking what is spiritual and good and insisting on the letter of the law. This doesn't produce the righteousness God seeks. It produces blind spots.

So you can't just say a man is caught in works without further examination if he attends Sunday morning services without fail. But neither can you say that a man who doesn't often attend them is breaking Gods' law. Because you would be judging outwardly in both instances and that's not how God judges. He doesn't say that a man who trusts completely in Him for everything he needs and in everything He has said, but doesn't go to church services every Sunday, is clean inwardly but filthy outwardly. He says that the man is clean. And conversely, if the man goes to church services outwardly but inside is not trusting and is instead worrying and gnawing about how he will pay next months rent, God doesn't say the man is clean outwardly but filthy inwardly - He says the man is unclean in heart.

It's not as simple as both sides want to try to make it because God judges a mans inside and says if the inside is clean the outside is as well.
 

prove-all

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May 16, 2014
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Paul called those people that said we are to follow the law of Moses
after coming to Christ as being Judaizers...... Paul says that he never stood
for this for even one hour so that the truth would remain in the Galatians.
The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why
Paul had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.
-
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night,
hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

-When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
-
Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were
observing God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are
"a shadow of things to come".

Acts 18:21 (KJV)
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in
Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days after joining
the church. Why did Paul want so bad to keep this [Feast] ?
-
Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia,
and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue,
the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

-here was A perfect chance to tell gentials not to follow the commandments,
but here he was teaching new gentials on the sabbath, who never before keep it.

Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews
and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them,
persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together
to hear the word of God.

-why not preach the next day, why wait a whole week before speaking?

Act 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of
Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.

Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side,
where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto
the women which resorted thither.
-
Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia,
they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them,
and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath,
and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
-
In each case Paul was preaching to Gentiles in Gentile cities on the Sabbath.
it is recorded over 80 times Paul preached to gentials on the sabbath day.

Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means! Rather we uphold the law

If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God]; if any man minister,
let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may
be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever
and ever. Amen. - 1 Peter 4:11
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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It would seem that some of us should look again at what Paul was calling a juwdaizer.

Secular reff..
(Plutarch, Cicero 7:6; Josephus JW 2.17.10; Ignatius, Magn 10.3) with the basic meaning of “to live as a Jew in accordance with Jewish customs.”

Gal. 4 and 6 talk about the judaizing of the new converts and who are they?

Those who glory over your flesh. Becoming a Jew is not required to be saved. If you know the law of Elohim you know by keeping it there is no way to find salvation. We also know Paul teaches to have a curcumcised heart. In Gal 6
6:12-13 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh that try to compel you to be circumcised—only that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. Even the circumcised do not themselves obey the law, but they want you to be circumcised so that they may boast about your flesh.

The ones making a big fuss where the Jews who where trying to convert new believers in Messiah to Judaism and not the basic truth of Scripture to make it the way you live life as a light to the nation that Israel was called to holiness alongside​ the foreigners among them. Again today if you go to become a Jew they will curcumcise you even if you already are. If you are they make a drop of blood go out by a pin. This is where Paul teaches to not be fooled. They break the Law by their tradition and enslave people to religious abservance of the ordinance of men and totally rejecting Messiah just like the church has done today especially when they teach people that the law is curse in Messiah because even the word they will use to say the law is done away with shows proof of Paul's faithful obedience to Messiah through keeping the Faith