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I don't look down on the jews. I agree with everything you've said mostly. I still think some of the words that say, for instance, hear ye, Israel, apply to me as well. When I read Israel, I don't just skip over it and say, oh, that only refers to Israel - it's not for me. I think my confusion was over you saying when it says "Israel" it is always and only referring to a bloodline. I don't think I will be treated differently than Israel. If I make the same mistakes they did in not trusting, I don't think I will be treated any differently. I guess I'm talking about the spirit of the words. It's okay though. We aren't always going to understand each other. 
Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
THAT means every verse in the Bible remains RELEVANT, and we can learn from it. NOTHING IS TO BE IGNORED.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
BUT no where in Scripture does that make Gentile Believers, part of HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, ISRAEL.
THEY have the status of BEING His CHOSEN NATION (or People), ISRAEL.
WE have the status of BEING His CHOSEN ADOPTED CHILDREN.
HOW IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
WHICH WOULD YOU RATHER BE?
John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 8:14-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!”
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and if children, also heirs—heirs of God and coheirs with Christ—seeing that we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
EXO. 12:49
The same law will apply to both the native and the foreigner who resides among you."
It is the same today. Take care to learn the lesson of the olive tree. If you not being a natural branch should reject the root it will be cut off and thrown on the ground, totally rejecting the way of YHWH Elohim is the same as rejecting Messiah.
So if you do follow the way with the root sustaining you the fruit to produce is because of practice of instruction out of love twords righteousness in Messiah.
The same law will apply to both the native and the foreigner who resides among you."
It is the same today. Take care to learn the lesson of the olive tree. If you not being a natural branch should reject the root it will be cut off and thrown on the ground, totally rejecting the way of YHWH Elohim is the same as rejecting Messiah.
So if you do follow the way with the root sustaining you the fruit to produce is because of practice of instruction out of love twords righteousness in Messiah.
Why would you accuse me of tearing something out of the Scripture, or saying my own interpretation? I clearly stated the text as written in the original Greek language as to the differences from the KJV. Did you bother to look it up for yourself? If you really want to be true to the Word of God you need to. And if you diligently study the Bible, and God has opened your Spiritual eyes, then He will reveal to you from His Word that Jesus Christ is our Sabbath rest! He is our Sabbath! Yes He fulfilled the law and the prophets! We can either look at Him as Peter walking on the water, or look at ourselves and our own interpretations and sink in the depths.
By the way, the verse you quoted, Hebrews 13:8, is an interesting verse also. We try to interpret it on our own and come up with the same conclusion as you do. But when the Bible interprets itself, we find a whole different meaning. What is God saying with this verse? Lets look at the original Greek text and see. Jesus (Iesosous) His name, Christ (Christos) Messiah, the (ho) the, same (autos) should be self i.e. their self, yesterday (chthes) time past, and (kai) also, to day (semeron) this day or night, and (kai) also, for (eis) for, ever (aion) properly an age; by extension perpetuity {also past}. So we see by going to the original text in Greek the verse takes on a whole different meaning. It is saying that Jesus was the Messiah, is the Messiah, and will always be the Messiah in the future. In other words, the Jews were saved by Christ, those in the time of the Lord were saved by Christ, and us now and those after us are saved the same way by Jesus the Messiah! No one has ever been saved or will ever be saved another way. Only by Jesus Christ the Messiah! I hope you feel the love I present this to you with as a fellow seeker of the Truth of the Bible.
OK. Lets look at that verse in the original Greek text. In Matthew 12:8 we read: For (gar) for indeed, the (ho) the, Son (uihos) Son, of man (anthropos) being human, is (esti) is, Lord (kurios) God, even (kai) also, the (ho) the, sabbath day (sabbaton) Sabbath. So we see from the original Greek text that Jesus tells us He is God the Sabbath! Please look it up for yourself as it is so exciting!
kýrios, koo'-ree-os; from κῦρος kŷros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):—God, Lord, master, Sir.
Though kirios can be translated as God it is more truly translated here as master. Yahshua is Elohim however. This fact doesn't change the Sabbath still or its observance to the faithful servant of Messiah.
Though kirios can be translated as God it is more truly translated here as master. Yahshua is Elohim however. This fact doesn't change the Sabbath still or its observance to the faithful servant of Messiah.
Try reading it as it is given ! what does scripture say ? Acts 2...the Holy Ghost (Spirit) teaches everyone in their own language, we are not required to become 'scholars of Greek or Hebrew to understand God. Jesus' Disciples were 'unlearned men....because they are easier to teach than those who think they are themselves teachers.
The true Christian life is lived by grace through faith only - nothing to do with the law of Moses. As we have received Christ - we are to walk in Him and all that He has done.
Colossians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Real Christians have died on the cross with Christ and rose again at His resurrection to serve God in newness of life and not in the oldness of the letter.
If anyone comes with the message that "You must now follow the law of Moses as in observing the Sabbath or feasts days - if you do not - then you are dis-obeying God and sinning."
If you hear this - run from it because it is an anti-Christ belief system just like the Judaizers that came in to the Galatians and tried to get them to follow the law of Moses only their route was by circumcision. Some do it by eating certain foods only which is a sign of the those falling away from the faith ( 1 Tim. 4:1-5 )
Paul said that he did not stand for the Judaizers message for one hour so that the truth would remain with them. Gal. 2:5
Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
Colossians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Real Christians have died on the cross with Christ and rose again at His resurrection to serve God in newness of life and not in the oldness of the letter.
If anyone comes with the message that "You must now follow the law of Moses as in observing the Sabbath or feasts days - if you do not - then you are dis-obeying God and sinning."
If you hear this - run from it because it is an anti-Christ belief system just like the Judaizers that came in to the Galatians and tried to get them to follow the law of Moses only their route was by circumcision. Some do it by eating certain foods only which is a sign of the those falling away from the faith ( 1 Tim. 4:1-5 )
Paul said that he did not stand for the Judaizers message for one hour so that the truth would remain with them. Gal. 2:5
Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
Question: "Who were the Judaizers?"
Answer: There have always been those who balk at the idea of God’s salvation being offered freely to those who believe. They reason that such a grand gift as forgiveness from such a holy God must require some kind of payment from us. We thank God for His grace, but we understand that He expects us to somehow earn that grace—in other words, there must be something that we can do to pay off the debt we owe to God.
In the early church, those who taught a combination of God’s grace and human effort were called “Judaizers.” The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.”
A Judaizer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ.
The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians.
At the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, a group of Judaizers opposed Paul and Barnabas. Some men who belonged to the party of the Pharisees insisted that Gentiles could not be saved unless they were first circumcised and obeyed the Law of Moses.
Paul made the case that, in Christ, there was no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile, for God had purified the hearts of the Gentiles by faith (Acts 15:8–9). He said it plainly in Galatians 2:16: “A man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”
To add anything to the work that Christ did for salvation is to negate God’s grace. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, not by returning to the Law. “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing” (Galatians 2:21).
There are many groups today with beliefs/practices very similar to the Judaizers of the New Testament. The two most prominent would be the Hebrew Roots Movement and the Roman Catholic Church. The teachings of the Hebrew Roots Movement are virtually identical to those of the Judaizers whom Paul rebuked in Galatians. A primary focus of the Hebrew Roots Movement is to put followers of Christ back under the bondage of the Old Testament Law.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches a doctrine similar to that of the Judaizers of the New Testament in this way: its doctrine is a mixture of law and grace. At the Council of Trent in the 16th century, the Catholic Church explicitly denied the idea of salvation by faith alone.
Catholics have always held that certain sacraments are necessary for salvation. The issues for the 1st-century Judaizers were circumcision and Sabbath-keeping. The issues for modern-day Catholics are baptism, confession, etc. The works considered necessary may have changed, but both Judaizers and Catholics attempt to merit God’s grace through the performance of ritualistic acts.
First Timothy 4:3 says that, in later times, false teachers will “forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.” This sounds suspiciously close to some of the teachings of Roman Catholicism, which requires priests to be celibate (“forbidding to marry”) and proclaims some food to be off-limits during Lent (“abstaining from certain foods”).
The Judaizers upheld the Mosaic Law as necessary for salvation; Catholics uphold man-made tradition as necessary; both view Christ’s death as being insufficient without the active and continued cooperation of the one being saved.
The Bible is clear that the attempt to add human works to God’s grace overlooks the very meaning of grace, which is “undeserved blessing.” As Paul says, “If by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6). Praise the Lord, “Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).
https://gotquestions.org/Judaizers.html
I do not look at all Hebrew Roots adherents as all the same. As I have said before - there are many that are of authentic Jewish descent and they like their traditions but they do not say that others need to observe the Sabbath or feasts as in the law of Moses or you are dis-obeying God and sinning. They observe these things to see Christ as the fulfillment of them - not as something they "need" to do now.
This group has excellent teaching son how Christ has fulfilled the Law and show Christ in every part of the Old Testament. Jesus said that all the scriptures speak about Him.
This group of believers are a major blessing to us in the body of Christ and are not Judaizers such as Paul encountered and that are also in the extreme sects of Hebrew Roots that say believers in Christ must "observe the Sabbath and the feasts like in the law of Moses - or they are dis-obeying God and sinning".
Those - run away from as fast as you can! - but do not put all Hebrew Roots people I the same boat as the extreme sects because they are not the same.
Answer: There have always been those who balk at the idea of God’s salvation being offered freely to those who believe. They reason that such a grand gift as forgiveness from such a holy God must require some kind of payment from us. We thank God for His grace, but we understand that He expects us to somehow earn that grace—in other words, there must be something that we can do to pay off the debt we owe to God.
In the early church, those who taught a combination of God’s grace and human effort were called “Judaizers.” The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.”
A Judaizer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ.
The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians.
At the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, a group of Judaizers opposed Paul and Barnabas. Some men who belonged to the party of the Pharisees insisted that Gentiles could not be saved unless they were first circumcised and obeyed the Law of Moses.
Paul made the case that, in Christ, there was no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile, for God had purified the hearts of the Gentiles by faith (Acts 15:8–9). He said it plainly in Galatians 2:16: “A man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”
To add anything to the work that Christ did for salvation is to negate God’s grace. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, not by returning to the Law. “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing” (Galatians 2:21).
There are many groups today with beliefs/practices very similar to the Judaizers of the New Testament. The two most prominent would be the Hebrew Roots Movement and the Roman Catholic Church. The teachings of the Hebrew Roots Movement are virtually identical to those of the Judaizers whom Paul rebuked in Galatians. A primary focus of the Hebrew Roots Movement is to put followers of Christ back under the bondage of the Old Testament Law.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches a doctrine similar to that of the Judaizers of the New Testament in this way: its doctrine is a mixture of law and grace. At the Council of Trent in the 16th century, the Catholic Church explicitly denied the idea of salvation by faith alone.
Catholics have always held that certain sacraments are necessary for salvation. The issues for the 1st-century Judaizers were circumcision and Sabbath-keeping. The issues for modern-day Catholics are baptism, confession, etc. The works considered necessary may have changed, but both Judaizers and Catholics attempt to merit God’s grace through the performance of ritualistic acts.
First Timothy 4:3 says that, in later times, false teachers will “forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.” This sounds suspiciously close to some of the teachings of Roman Catholicism, which requires priests to be celibate (“forbidding to marry”) and proclaims some food to be off-limits during Lent (“abstaining from certain foods”).
The Judaizers upheld the Mosaic Law as necessary for salvation; Catholics uphold man-made tradition as necessary; both view Christ’s death as being insufficient without the active and continued cooperation of the one being saved.
The Bible is clear that the attempt to add human works to God’s grace overlooks the very meaning of grace, which is “undeserved blessing.” As Paul says, “If by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6). Praise the Lord, “Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).
https://gotquestions.org/Judaizers.html
I do not look at all Hebrew Roots adherents as all the same. As I have said before - there are many that are of authentic Jewish descent and they like their traditions but they do not say that others need to observe the Sabbath or feasts as in the law of Moses or you are dis-obeying God and sinning. They observe these things to see Christ as the fulfillment of them - not as something they "need" to do now.
This group has excellent teaching son how Christ has fulfilled the Law and show Christ in every part of the Old Testament. Jesus said that all the scriptures speak about Him.
This group of believers are a major blessing to us in the body of Christ and are not Judaizers such as Paul encountered and that are also in the extreme sects of Hebrew Roots that say believers in Christ must "observe the Sabbath and the feasts like in the law of Moses - or they are dis-obeying God and sinning".
Those - run away from as fast as you can! - but do not put all Hebrew Roots people I the same boat as the extreme sects because they are not the same.
It is ONLY YOU who constantly brings up Moses law ---nobody else !!! and you force it on people and call them names who do not observe it - why are you doing this ?
The fixation with Moses is entirely your own and falsly accusing others of it is a figment of your own imagination.
JESUS was teaching on the commandments of GOD - was He upholding the law of Moses ? of course not and neither are we who walk with Him !
The fixation with Moses is entirely your own and falsly accusing others of it is a figment of your own imagination.
JESUS was teaching on the commandments of GOD - was He upholding the law of Moses ? of course not and neither are we who walk with Him !
The 10 commandments are part of the law of Moses. Paul says it is so.
Coveting is one of the 10 commandments unless it got kicked out now.
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
Everything in the Law is a shadow of the real thing which is Christ Himself. We live by Christ now - not the Law of Moses which includes the 10 commandments.
Coveting is one of the 10 commandments unless it got kicked out now.
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
Everything in the Law is a shadow of the real thing which is Christ Himself. We live by Christ now - not the Law of Moses which includes the 10 commandments.