Sabbath

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Do any of you even know what the law is? It gets talked about a lot. Jesus said the law would last forever. What he accomplished on the cross was to remove the penalty from those who are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

Matthew 5:17 and 18
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.


There are 613 laws as counted and enumerated by Maimonides.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

I asked this once.

If a Law says "thou shall not steal".

And another Law says don't steal from your brother. And another says Don't steal from a stranger.

Using honest and righteous judgment, how many laws are here? 1 or 3.

If you answer 3, then that would explain 613 laws you find on the internet.

But if you answer 1, you will see that the 613 different Laws is a deception to further the preaching that God's Laws are so unjust, so burdensome, so many in number, that it is impossible to follow them. If you actually read these 613 laws you will find the 613 number a myth.

Then I asked why this 613 laws number included many specific Laws only given to the Levites that no other man was allowed to partake of. A Priesthood that no longer exists on earth. Why would this number include Laws of God that the common man was never to partake of? If a person wanted to push the narrative above, they would increase the number by adding Laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. It is dishonest to do such a thing. But if you actually read this 613 laws you will find many that were only given to a specific tribe, not the common man.

Then I asked; "How many Laws are you required to follow in one day in America if you work for a living and drive to work?

Honestly count them one day. Property Taxes, income taxes, fire codes, association rules, insurance, vehicle codes, road signs, street markers, parking lots, signals, speed, side of the road, turning lanes, home owners insurance, building codes, seat belts, fire alarms, child seats, dog ordinances, ID, insurance card, licenses.

I could go on and on. The sheer number of Laws that an American had to comply with to stay out of trouble even for one day is staggering.

God's requirements for His people pales in comparison to the sheer number of Laws a person is subject to in America. But not a peep about that. Instead someone creates a fictitious number of Commandments from God and uses it to convince men, as the Serpent convinced Eve, that God's instructions are so grievous and burdensome she can only be "FREE" by rejecting them.

I believe this is why God, nor His Son ever mentioned such an egregious number, because it never existed until some religious man created it to further some religious tradition.

So your statement that there is 613 Laws required by God for man in the OT is simply not true.

Look for yourself.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
I asked this once.

If a Law says "thou shall not steal".

And another Law says don't steal from your brother. And another says Don't steal from a stranger.

Using honest and righteous judgment, how many laws are here? 1 or 3.

If you answer 3, then that would explain 613 laws you find on the internet.

But if you answer 1, you will see that the 613 different Laws is a deception to further the preaching that God's Laws are so unjust, so burdensome, so many in number, that it is impossible to follow them. If you actually read these 613 laws you will find the 613 number a myth.

Then I asked why this 613 laws number included many specific Laws only given to the Levites that no other man was allowed to partake of. A Priesthood that no longer exists on earth. Why would this number include Laws of God that the common man was never to partake of? If a person wanted to push the narrative above, they would increase the number by adding Laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. It is dishonest to do such a thing. But if you actually read this 613 laws you will find many that were only given to a specific tribe, not the common man.

Then I asked; "How many Laws are you required to follow in one day in America if you work for a living and drive to work?

Honestly count them one day. Property Taxes, income taxes, fire codes, association rules, insurance, vehicle codes, road signs, street markers, parking lots, signals, speed, side of the road, turning lanes, home owners insurance, building codes, seat belts, fire alarms, child seats, dog ordinances, ID, insurance card, licenses.

I could go on and on. The sheer number of Laws that an American had to comply with to stay out of trouble even for one day is staggering.

God's requirements for His people pales in comparison to the sheer number of Laws a person is subject to in America. But not a peep about that. Instead someone creates a fictitious number of Commandments from God and uses it to convince men, as the Serpent convinced Eve, that God's instructions are so grievous and burdensome she can only be "FREE" by rejecting them.

I believe this is why God, nor His Son ever mentioned such an egregious number, because it never existed until some religious man created it to further some religious tradition.

So your statement that there is 613 Laws required by God for man in the OT is simply not true.

Look for yourself.
Long drawn out foolish response. The law of God is first divided into the do's and don'ts. Then each is divided into who and where it applies. Thus this document allows someone to look up laws of God applicable to a particular subject. Since these are scattered throughout the Torah this makes it easy to understand the laws of God.

Not true?? Not according to Jesus. Argue with him about the law being real.

Matthew 5:17 and 18
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or [ab]undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Long drawn out foolish response. The law of God is first divided into the do's and don'ts. Then each is divided into who and where it applies. Thus this document allows someone to look up laws of God applicable to a particular subject. Since these are scattered throughout the Torah this makes it easy to understand the laws of God.

Not true?? Not according to Jesus. Argue with him about the law being real.

Matthew 5:17 and 18
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or [ab]undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
I never said His Law wasn't real. I said your internet friends who created the myth about 613 different laws are not honest. Did you not read my post?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,159
9,776
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Matthew 5:17 and 18
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or [ab]undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
Indeed, this scripture tells us that not jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. That is, until everything is finished the law still stands. It did not say each item will be eliminated as they were fulfilled. Until all things are done all law still stands. In fact, Christ expounded that our obedience should be more than outward. We should take up our cross, deny ourselves and follow Christ.

good-job-smiley-emoticon.gif
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
I never said His Law wasn't real. I said your internet friends who created the myth about 613 different laws are not honest. Did you not read my post?
The list was created by Maimonides not internet friends. I investigated on my own. So stick it in your ear!!

Others have verified this as well.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,178
516
113
I asked this once.

If a Law says "thou shall not steal".

And another Law says don't steal from your brother. And another says Don't steal from a stranger.

Using honest and righteous judgment, how many laws are here? 1 or 3.

If you answer 3, then that would explain 613 laws you find on the internet.

But if you answer 1, you will see that the 613 different Laws is a deception to further the preaching that God's Laws are so unjust, so burdensome, so many in number, that it is impossible to follow them. If you actually read these 613 laws you will find the 613 number a myth.

Then I asked why this 613 laws number included many specific Laws only given to the Levites that no other man was allowed to partake of. A Priesthood that no longer exists on earth. Why would this number include Laws of God that the common man was never to partake of? If a person wanted to push the narrative above, they would increase the number by adding Laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. It is dishonest to do such a thing. But if you actually read this 613 laws you will find many that were only given to a specific tribe, not the common man.

Then I asked; "How many Laws are you required to follow in one day in America if you work for a living and drive to work?

Honestly count them one day. Property Taxes, income taxes, fire codes, association rules, insurance, vehicle codes, road signs, street markers, parking lots, signals, speed, side of the road, turning lanes, home owners insurance, building codes, seat belts, fire alarms, child seats, dog ordinances, ID, insurance card, licenses.

I could go on and on. The sheer number of Laws that an American had to comply with to stay out of trouble even for one day is staggering.

God's requirements for His people pales in comparison to the sheer number of Laws a person is subject to in America. But not a peep about that. Instead someone creates a fictitious number of Commandments from God and uses it to convince men, as the Serpent convinced Eve, that God's instructions are so grievous and burdensome she can only be "FREE" by rejecting them.

I believe this is why God, nor His Son ever mentioned such an egregious number, because it never existed until some religious man created it to further some religious tradition.

So your statement that there is 613 Laws required by God for man in the OT is simply not true.

Look for yourself.
Thanks! It was worth logging on tonight to read this. Well said brother, well said.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,335
4,656
113
The given day of worship for any who know Jesus Christ is every day, so going to an assembly of members of His Body is permitted any day.

The Sabbath of the Lord, that is the Shabbat of the Word will always be the Seventh Day as given us as a gift directly from the Father.

It is not a burdensome law, but it is a command. As for those who think it is yet a law, keep in mind the Israel of God has not yet arrived, nor is there a physical Temple, we are the living stones of the Temple with our blessed Savior, Jesus, as the Chief and the Corner Stone rejected by man.

Jesus, the Chief and the Corner, will return to rebuild His Temple, to put it in place in the New Jerusalem...if you believe Him, you will see It.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,722
4,517
113
Verify it or refute it. Stop the BS.
just a word of advice- shake the dust from your feet , and move on.

I have been interacting with this guy and the other judeaizers fro months, and you just go in circles and get nowhere.

when folks refuse to use context, chronological order, definitions of words, and refuse to discuss parts of Scripture, then there is really no point.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,335
4,656
113
In Israel were all Levites? Right there we see no one was required to follow all of th 611 or 613 lawws.

The people here who cite obedience is obeying the laws, all of them, have never learned what Jesus said to the Pharisees............They overlooked the most important principles of the law, justice, mercy and faith.

If those who think the law is dead or destroyed on the cross would learn it is the curse of the law, death, that is destryed, then they would be able to hear Jesus, Yesha, when He says we must not teach against even the least of the laws.

Unhappily these detractors are law-makers themselves and hung up on their own rules and regulations.

Which is worse, to obey the traditions of men, or to obey the teching directly from God?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,111
447
83
Aww I'm three days late to the party 😒 is it over?

G

General rule about forums. The longer the post the fewer will read it. I didn't bother to try!
What??? I added numbers! (Some ppl lol). It was written for whoever read it.

...Sign of the times.

John 7:38 [berean]
Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,111
447
83
just a word of advice- shake the dust from your feet , and move on.

I have been interacting with this guy and the other judeaizers fro months, and you just go in circles and get nowhere.

when folks refuse to use context, chronological order, definitions of words, and refuse to discuss parts of Scripture, then there is really no point.
But when they do post context, chronology, post definitions, and encourage delving deep into scripture references; you know, "study", they're told it's too long to read lol.

Maybe this is all an effort to avoid facing objective truth?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,111
447
83
It was restored in 1947. Present day Israel!!
It's deception, Endoscopy. Jeremiah 30 and 31 weren't fulfilled yet.

Not to get on a tangent but; Even if we assume that the people currently occupying the land are truly Judah, Judah never had a right to the name "Israel". Only Ephraim/Joseph and the other 9 northern tribes had the right to the name. So without the northern tribes, the Jews can only claim they're the "Nation of Judah".

...but in addition, scripture says there are those who claim they are Jews but are not (rev 2:9; 3:9), which must also be fulfilled.

----

These are some of the jots and tittles that we can't toss from the law until everything is fulfilled.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,335
4,656
113
It's deception, Endoscopy. Jeremiah 30 and 31 weren't fulfilled yet.

Not to get on a tangent but; Even if we assume that the people currently occupying the land are truly Judah, Judah never had a right to the name "Israel". Only Ephraim/Joseph and the other 9 northern tribes had the right to the name. So without the northern tribes, the Jews can only claim they're the "Nation of Judah".

...but in addition, scripture says there are those who claim they are Jews but are not (rev 2:9; 3:9), which must also be fulfilled.

----

These are some of the jots and tittles that we can't toss from the law until everything is fulfilled.
What most folks do not realize is that the present day Israel of this age bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Israel of the Ot. iF THEY REALIZED THIS, THE UNDERSTANDING WOULD INCREASE 100 FOLD.....BUT UNTIL THEY KNOW THIS, they remain in darkness in this regard.......

In Yahweh's time all will be revealed.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,722
4,517
113
But when they do post context, chronology, post definitions, and encourage delving deep into scripture references; you know, "study", they're told it's too long to read lol.

Maybe this is all an effort to avoid facing objective truth?
the only objective truth I need ( or anyone ) is- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,159
9,776
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
the only objective truth I need ( or anyone ) is- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
And what will this belief in Jesus Christ produce? Obedience.

Luke 6:46
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

yes-smiley-bubble.gif