Sabbath

[JohnTalmid]

P.S. Romans says sin is violation of the law and also says that the law is of the spirit. So yes if you do not keep the Sabbath you are sinning. Truth is if you teach others to not keep it you are under rebellion and that is equal to witch craft.

 

[JohnTalmid]

No it is not. FAITH, is not tied to Bloodlines, while My People (My Nation) Israel is.



Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

That total kind of FAITH has always always been the standard for SALVATION, both in the O.T. and the N.T.


Malachi 3:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed, you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] “Since the days of your fathers, you have turned from My statutes; you have not kept ⌊them⌋. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD of Hosts. But you ask: “How can we return?”


That TOTAL FAITH AND TRUST, is what counterfeit Christians lack.

As Zola Levitt once said, "Jews put a far greater meaning on the word BELIEVE, than we English speaking people usually do. For example, if two Jews walk up to a frozen over lake in early winter and Jew#1 said to Jew#2, "Do you Believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?" And Jew#2 answered, "Yes, I do Believe the ice is thick enough to walk on." And then Jew#2 put one foot out there on the ice and gently tested the ice. Jew#1 would scream, "LIAR, if you really Believed it, you would have walked out there and put your whole weight on the ice."

To genuinely Believe on JESUS as the Messiah, is to willingly put your whole weight and TRUST on HIS having SAVED you by what HE accomplished on the Cross.

Another example Jesus used to explain that kind of FAITH, is when HE said "we must become like children". There is NO waivering or doubt in a little Child's Faith and Trust. For example. If a 4 year old child climbed up on the roof of the chicken coop, just as his Daddy came home from work; and his Daddy said, "Jump son, Daddy will catch you." That young Daddy had BETTER BE REALLY READY TO CATCH THAT CHILD, because that Child will not waiver or doubt, THAT CHILD WILL JUMP.

I believe that is what HE is talking about when HE talks about the FAITH OF ABRAHAM: NO Waivering, NO doubting, Just Totally TRUSTING, FAITH.


Matthew 18:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] “I assure you,” He said, “unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 4:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is why the promise is by faith, so that it may be according to grace, to guarantee it to all the descendants—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of Abraham’s faith. He is the father of us all
[SUP]17 [/SUP] in God’s sight. As it is written: I have made you the father of many nations. He believed in God, who gives life to the dead and calls things into existence that do not exist.


I cannot even count the number people who point to that verse 16, and say "See there, we are spiritual ISRAELITES." Then I remind them that Abraham was NOT an Israelite, he was from UR of the Chaldees. THAT IS WAY SOUTH OF BAGHDAD.


Genesis 11:31 (NRSV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Terah took his son Abram and his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, his son Abram's wife, and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan; but when they came to Haran, they settled there.

Right I'm not saying the Israelites are the only ones called to holiness. I think your saying that also. Meant to quote the person you did... Shalom

 

[VCO]

Maybe I have misunderstood you friend. Israel is the name that Elohim has selected to call His people yes? If there is one tree symbolic of the nation of YHWH Elohim, (there is). We are grafted into that tree and live by the same roots don't we? Israel is the name Elohim calls you if you are his people. Scripture makes it clear thank Heaven that there is one law for Israel and the foriner among them. So Sabbath is also for us in Messiah Yeshua as Shaul makes Clear. So there remains a Sabbath keeping for those in Messiah Yeshua today. Don't fall into disobedience as they did in the wilderness for our example.

HERE is where you are confused.

HIS chosen People (which means NATION), certainly is the Nation Israel.

HIS chosen Children ARE the True Believers of all time that HE CHOSE TO ADOPT, because they have the Faith of Abraham.

Not everyone with a rightful claim to be OF the Nation Israel, is one of HIS CHOSEN CHILDREN;

AND NONE of the Gentiles has a rightful Claim to be OF the Nation Israel;

HOWEVER, ALL True Believers of ALL TIME are HIS CHOSEN CHILDREN, no matter what nationality they are from.

THAT IS WHY PAUL HAD TO EXPLAIN:


Romans 9:6-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring.


YOU are the one confusing ISRAEL with All of those who have the Spirit of Adoption, not GOD. NO GENTILES ARE EVEN MENTIONED in verses 6-8. Paul is explaining who all of the descendants of ISRAEL, is also considered a Child of GOD; because among the JEWS, many thought being of the right bloodlines automatically made you a Child of GOD.


Let me show numerous places in GOD's WORD where HE differentiates between True Believers of ISRAEL and the REST OF US BELIEVERS.


Acts 13:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “From this man’s descendants, according to the promise, God brought the Savior, Jesus, to Israel.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Before He came to public attention, John had previously proclaimed a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

☝ No reference to Gentile Believers there.


Romans 11:5-7 (RSV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

☝ No reference to Gentile Believers there.


Romans 11:11 (RSV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

☝ Here GOD is differentiating between Gentile Believers and those of the Nation of Israel.


Acts 9:15 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.

☝ Here GOD is differentiating between Gentile Believers and those of the Nation of Israel.


Romans 11:25-26 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: A partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.

☝ Here GOD is differentiating between Gentile Believers and those of the Nation of Israel.


Luke 2:26-32 (ESV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law,
[SUP]28 [/SUP] he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
[SUP]29 [/SUP] “Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word;
[SUP]30 [/SUP] for my eyes have seen your salvation
[SUP]31 [/SUP] that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
[SUP]32 [/SUP] a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”

☝ CLEARLY here, the Gentile Believers are NOT CLASSIFIED as Part of HIS people Israel.


Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Seeing Elohim doesn't change, Exodus does still apply to us at least for correction about this. I am not making the case for replacement theology or even that Israel is what we are now called. I'm​ simply saying There is 1 law for Israel and the sojourner among them, (YOU are a sojourner among Elohim's nation of you fallow Messiah.) Ya'll may not be saying stuff right sounds like

 

[JohnTalmid]

P.S. Shaul is saying not all descendants of Israel are of the Faith of Abraham which is who the covenants are dispensed to,( through his example​ of faith)

 

[JohnTalmid]

Look again in Messiah, ( which is what I am referring to) there is neither Jew nor Gentile. We are being made into a holy nation. Many times also Gentile is referring to the lost sheep of Israel not that it always refers to them. If you are follower of Messiah and you keep the commands of YHWH Elohim you are grafted into Israel and as such are a part of Israel not that you could have been given this gift even if you are physically descended of Israel. All Levites are of Israel not all Levites are for temple service,(for example). So if you keep the commands and testimony of Messiah you too are a Jew..

 

[gotime]

The entire law is love, thus not one part of it can change because God is love and never changes.

 

[beta]

The entire law is love, thus not one part of it can change because God is love and never changes.

Yes that is true...but how many christians do you ever hear quoting the first 4 commandments which are ''to love God'' ? all we ever hear from them are the commands pertaining to 'neighbour as if they take priority over God. They are quite concerned about upsetting their neighbour but think nothing of upsetting God...and as usual have things back to front....hence the admonition to repent, turn and start from the right foundation !

 

[VCO]

P.S. Romans says sin is violation of the law and also says that the law is of the spirit. So yes if you do not keep the Sabbath you are sinning. Truth is if you teach others to not keep it you are under rebellion and that is equal to witch craft.

You are wrong, Jesus did not reiterate the Sabbath Law commandment, YET He reiterated the other nine.

The SABBATH LAW IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD LITERALLY, and applies to ISRAEL ONLY.


Exodus 31:12-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Tell the Israelites: You must observe My Sabbaths, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, so that you will know that I am Yahweh who sets you apart.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does work on it, that person must be cut off from his people.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who does work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When He finished speaking with Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the testimony, stone tablets inscribed by the finger of God.


You are reading into the commandment something that just is not there.


If you then you think it applies to everyone, then you are making the following sin by working on Saturday: every Emergency Room Doctor, every Nurse, every Ambulance Driver, every Every Emergency Medical Technician, every Fireman, every Air Traffic Control Worker, every Weather Bureau Storm Warning worker, every Military Personnel that is there working on Saturday to continually protect YOUR RIGHT TO WORSHIP ON SATURDAY, etc., etc., etc.

John 5:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore, the Jews began persecuting Jesus because He was doing these things on the Sabbath.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But Jesus responded to them, “My Father is still working, and I am working also.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP] This is why the Jews began trying all the more to kill Him: Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

We are finished with this discussion, and I am kicking the dust off my sandals.

 

[VCO]

Look again in Messiah, ( which is what I am referring to) there is neither Jew nor Gentile. We are being made into a holy nation. Many times also Gentile is referring to the lost sheep of Israel not that it always refers to them. If you are follower of Messiah and you keep the commands of YHWH Elohim you are grafted into Israel and as such are a part of Israel not that you could have been given this gift even if you are physically descended of Israel. All Levites are of Israel not all Levites are for temple service,(for example). So if you keep the commands and testimony of Messiah you too are a Jew..

AGAIN, YOU ARE READING INTO THAT VERSE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT THERE. JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO BE THERE DOES NOT MAKE IT OF GOD.

 

[VCO]

Right I'm not saying the Israelites are the only ones called to holiness. I think your saying that also. Meant to quote the person you did... Shalom

AND, I am saying that being called to strive for holiness, DOES NOT MAKE YOU PART OF ISRAEL.

 

[AbdiyEL]

We are called to celebrate the day of Yahushua's (Jesus's) resurrection. Let me show you. First we need to understand why the Messiah rose from the dead when He did, but first you have to understand when and why He was crucified for us. Yahushua was crucified on the Passover, and was and is our Passover lamb. Leviticus Chapter 23 explains Yahweh's feast days for us. We are told that the day after the Passover is the first day of "unleavened bread", it is a Holy day considered a Sabbath day. We are also told that after the first day which comes after the Weekly Sabbath day (Seventh day of the Week) after the Passover day is another Holy day called "first fruits". It is on that day that the children of Israel were to bring a "Sheaf" of grain, being the first ripe stalks of barley grain from their crops, and present it as a "wave offering" to Yahweh at the Temple. It represented the first of all the harvest that Yahweh (God) would bless the people with. Yahushua rose from the dead on that same day, He became the "first fruits of the dead" as He was risen up from the grave and presented before the Father in Heaven. It is in the Keeping of Yahweh's Holy Days that we find true Worship, both of Yahweh and His Son Yahushua. In truth believers were never told to worship every first day of the week (Sunday) It is hard to accept for some but this is a tradition of men based off of pagan rooted practices. It's not wrong to worship on Sunday, or any given day, but Christianity has replaced Yahweh's Holy Days with their own man made institutions. We are still called to Keep every Sabbath, and every Holy Day, and indeed every Word that proceeds from the mouth of Yahweh, for it is by that that we live.

Deuteronomy 8:3 and Matthew 4:4



He, Yahushua, was the fulfillment of that great Feast/Holy Day, and when you celebrate that Day every year you are celebrating His resurrection.

 

[AbdiyEL]

VCO,
re: "I call that day Resurrection Sunday, and that is WELL WORTH CELEBRATING."
　
Any thoughts on why scripture is completely silent with regard to anyone celebrating on the first day of the week in honor of the resurrection?

We are called to celebrate the day of Yahushua's (Jesus's) resurrection. Let me show you. First we need to understand why the Messiah rose from the dead when He did, but first you have to understand when and why He was crucified for us. Yahushua was crucified on the Passover, and was and is our Passover lamb. Leviticus Chapter 23 explains Yahweh's feast days for us. We are told that the day after the Passover is the first day of "unleavened bread", it is a Holy day considered a Sabbath day. We are also told that after the first day which comes after the Weekly Sabbath day (Seventh day of the Week) after the Passover day is another Holy day called "first fruits". It is on that day that the children of Israel were to bring a "Sheaf" of grain, being the first ripe stalks of barley grain from their crops, and present it as a "wave offering" to Yahweh at the Temple. It represented the first of all the harvest that Yahweh (God) would bless the people with. Yahushua rose from the dead on that same day, He became the "first fruits of the dead" as He was risen up from the grave and presented before the Father in Heaven. It is in the Keeping of Yahweh's Holy Days that we find true Worship, both of Yahweh and His Son Yahushua. In truth believers were never told to worship every first day of the week (Sunday) It is hard to accept for some but this is a tradition of men based off of pagan rooted practices. It's not wrong to worship on Sunday, or any given day, but Christianity has replaced Yahweh's Holy Days with their own man made institutions. We are still called to Keep every Sabbath, and every Holy Day, and indeed every Word that proceeds from the mouth of Yahweh, for it is by that that we live.

Deuteronomy 8:3 and Matthew 4:4



He, Yahushua, was the fulfillment of that great Feast/Holy Day, and when you celebrate that Day every year you are celebrating His resurrection.

 

[AbdiyEL]

What on GOD's green earth do you mean by KEEP. We Celebrate HIS BIRTH because the Angels DID.

AND WE CELEBRATE the RESURRECTION, because it is the FULFILLMENT OF THE FESTIVAL OF FIRSTFRUITS, the first of many resurrections to come.

NOW I GOT NEWS FOR YOU, there has been enough PAGAN RELIGIONS throughout the history of mankind, that I guarantee that there has been a PAGAN HOLIDAY on every single one of the 365 days of the year, and that includes every single Sabbath that you think you KEEP.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT DAY,

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR HEART.

We can all tell, there is nothing but COLD HARDNESS GOING ON IN YOUR HEART.

It has everything to do with the day, Yahweh has set up His own Set Apart (Holy) Days, these are the days that He wants to be worshiped. The World has set up their own "Holidays" allof which were at one point or another days dedicated to the worship of false gods. Christmas, Easter, Haloween, the way we keep birthdays, and even the origins of Valentines day and others were all at one point "how pagans worshiped their gods" and here is what Yahweh says about that,

Deuteronomy 12:30-32
30. take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'
31. You shall not worship Yahweh your Elohim in that way; for every abomination to Yahweh which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
32. "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

Read Leviticus Chapter 23 in regards to "What He commanded and prescribed as true proper Holy Worship".

And as for "what is in our Heart"

Jeremiah 17:9
9. "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Matthew 15:19
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

 

[AbdiyEL]

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,because they were contrary to us,because they could not provide spiritual salvation,but was only temporary until Christ came,and gave the New Covenant,by the cross,and receiving the Spirit.

When a person receives the Spirit that is their sabbath,a spiritual rest.

Do we set aside a day that is a commandment that we do so,I do not see in the Bible where there is a day we set aside,although the Lord might like us to assemble on the first day of the week,but I do not see a commandment to do so,and every day is the sabbath by the Spirit.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

But I do not see a commandment to set the first day aside,for if it is a spiritual sabbath,then every day would be set apart,for there is no day concerned with that,where a physical sabbath can have a day concerned with it.

The physical sabbath was a day for them to rest,and cease from their own labors,profiting themselves,but if a person had need it was not against the sabbath to help them,for it was permitted to do good on the sabbath for the profit of other people,as Jesus pointed out.

The spiritual sabbath has no day concerned with it,and we do not cease from our labors concerning that,for we labor every day for the kingdom,and we are prepared unto all good works,and it does profit us to labor for that kingdom,for we do not cease from that labor of profiting ourselves in spiritual salvation,and we never cease profiting other people either.

Physical sabbath,day to cease profiting themselves,spiritual sabbath,we never cease profiting ourselves,but we labor every day for the kingdom,and following Jesus.

The only way to reply to this mess of nonesense is to copy it over and reply to each point. this will make it somewhat long,sry.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Col2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it tohis cross; [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Col2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew ofthem openly, triumphing over them in it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Col2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or inrespect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbathdays: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Col2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is ofChrist. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Somequick points you are unaware of. The words “no Man” in v. 16refers to common people, ie unbelievers. Look it up. V. 17 isbetter understood from the original King James Version. In the KJVthe word “is” is in italics. In the original King James thetranslators put words in italics if they were not in the originalmanuscript,they added theses words to “clarify” what “theythought” the test was trying to say. If you take out the word “is”from verse 17 and read verses 16 and 17 together you get this[/FONT]


“[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Letno unbeliever therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in thekeeping of an holyday, or the new moon, or the Sabbath. Which areshadows of things yet to come, but the body of Messiah”.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Whatis being said is this, the colossians were keeping the Law of Yahweh,all the feasts, and sabbaths and dietary requirements and new moonsetc... but they were being judged by un believers who were probablysaying the same things that christians say today, you don't have todo that any more, you are gentiles. But what are they told. Don'tlet them judge you, rather, if there is any question about thekeeping of these things, let the Body of Messiah (the church) makethe determination. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in theflesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called theCircumcision in the flesh made by hands; [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from thecommonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise,having no hope, and without God in the world: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are madenigh by the blood of Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath brokendown the middle wall of partition between us; [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Theseverse completely obliterate replacement theology. What did Paul sayto the Ephesians? They were “once” Gentiles. Once a personaccepts Salvation in Yahushua they are “grafted” into the vine,Yahushua, and made part of Him becoming a natural branch, they becomeIsrael. They don't replace Israel, they join the true Israel. Thosewho don't believe who were once Israel are branches torn off and arenow themselves become “Gentile” (Read Romans 11) There is nosuch thing as a “Gentile saved by Grace” A true believer hasbeen taken out of the Nations and adopted into the Family of Yahwehby Yahushua Messiah, he or she is no longer a Gentile. Which is whythe new covenant is only with Israel, but at the same time a personwho is not a Hebrew by blood can be saved. Read Jeremiah 31 to seewho the New Covenant is with. Important point. If we are nowIsrael, then we are expected to Worship Yahweh in every way that Heinstructed Israel to do so in the Scriptures. That includes Sabbathsfeastdays, etc... [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law ofcommandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twainone new man, so making peace; [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Herethe word “ordinances” is the Greek word Dogma and always refersto “man made traditions” in the New Testament. It was imposablefor any person to be saved trying to keep a twisted, legalistic, codeof manmade traditions that had no power to save. The Jews wereenslaved to this system, and had to be set free from it, so thatYahweh could make a new man out of both the Jews and the Gentiles.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by thecross, having slain the enmity thereby: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and tothem that were nigh. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto theFather. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Eph2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, butfellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Again,these Ephesians are now no longer considered Gentile, they areIsrael. Having been made into the image of Yahweh's Son beinggrafted into the vine.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Isa28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; lineupon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Isa28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak tothis people. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Isa28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause theweary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Youmisunderstand what is being said here. Probably because you left outverse 9.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Isaiah28:9[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]9. "Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make tounderstand the message? Those [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]just[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]weaned from milk? Those [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]just[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]drawn from the breasts?[/FONT]


Tolearn, precept by precept,and line upon line is not a good noteworthything. These people were being rebuked for being “babes” intheir faith, not able to eat the meat of the Word but having to befed like a baby.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Jesustook the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,because theywere contrary to us,because they could not provide spiritualsalvation,but was only temporary until Christ came,and gave the NewCovenant,by the cross,and receiving the Spirit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Jesuscan't take anything out of the way, He didn't come to. (Matthew5:17-19) What Yahushua came to do was to break the bondage of Sinand pay the penalty of our Iniquities by giving His own life. TheSon didn't come to overthrow the Father, a house divided against it'sself can not stand. Yahushua came to reunite the house of Israel andgraft in the Nations that would accept Him and walk in Yahweh's ways. I fear for you as you do not understand Salvation.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Whena person receives the Spirit that is their sabbath,a spiritual rest.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Wrong! The Apostles all had the Spirit in them, but they all kept theSeventh day Sabbath, in the synagogue most times, read it, andexplain it to me. The Sabbath has nothing to do with Salvation, itis the day that Yahweh set apart for Rest and Worship, it was never amatter of ones salvation, it is “Yahweh's Sabbath” (Exodus 20:10) And it was made for the whole world to keep. Not just jews. For allof Creation.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Dowe set aside a day that is a commandment that we do so,I do not seein the Bible where there is a day we set aside,although the Lordmight like us to assemble on the first day of the week,but I do notsee a commandment to do so,and every day is the sabbath by theSpirit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Youare blind if you can't see that the Seventh Day Sabbath was set Asideby Yahweh Himself. Who are you oh man to try and change Hisways![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Act20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples cametogether to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart onthe morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Iget that you think this is a teaching on “sunday” observance. But it's not. It's not your fault. You have been taught all lies,and no truth. What you don't know is that the Jews have a tradition,it's[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]existedfor thousands of years, atleast the last two, maybe three. EveryFriday evening and Saturday evening they would get together tocelebrate the opening and closing of the Sabbath. Since they weregetting together after sunset it was technically and Scripturalyconsidered the next day, so when the Apostles got together on(Saturday night) to close out the Sabbath it was considered the(first day of the week). It was a Saturday night not a Sundaymorning. Think about it this way. He preached until midnight, doyou suppose he preached from sunday morning until midnight thatnight. No. He preached from sundown Saturday night until aroundmidnight.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1Co16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have givenorder to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1Co16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by himin store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings whenI come. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Iget that you think this is proof of the church collecting tithesduring a Sunday service. Wrong again. Why would they collect tithesof money on the first day of the week. Because they couldn't do iton the Sabbath, which they all kept. It is forbidden to conduct anytype of monetary buisness on the Sabbath. The believers were told tocollect their tithes after the Sabbath was done, probably after theirSaturday night service, after the sun had gone down. They were allsabbath keepers, every one of them, why aren't you?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Rev1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me agreat voice, as of a trumpet.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Whatis the Lords Day? What day did the lord say was His?[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Matthew12:8[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]8.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Forthe Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."[/FONT]




[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Johnwas obviously praying on the day that he Knew belonged to the lord,it was a Sabbath day. The Apostle Kept the Sabbath Day, even afterthe resurrection, why don't you?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]ButI do not see a commandment to set the first day aside,for if it is aspiritual sabbath,then every day would be set apart,for there is noday concerned with that,where a physical sabbath can have a dayconcerned with it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thephysical sabbath was a day for them to rest,and cease from their ownlabors,profiting themselves,but if a person had need it was notagainst the sabbath to help them,for it was permitted to do good onthe sabbath for the profit of other people,as Jesus pointed out.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thespiritual sabbath has no day concerned with it,and we do not ceasefrom our labors concerning that,for we labor every day for thekingdom,and we are prepared unto all good works,and it does profit usto labor for that kingdom,for we do not cease from that labor ofprofiting ourselves in spiritual salvation,and we never ceaseprofiting other people either.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Physicalsabbath,day to cease profiting themselves,spiritual sabbath,we nevercease profiting ourselves,but we labor every day for the kingdom,andfollowing Jesus.[/FONT]


Iagree, there is no commandment any where to keep Sunday Holy, so whydo Christians all over the world do it. Ask a Catholic priest sometime. He will tell you “because the Catholic church commanded it. And there is no such thing as a spiritual Sabbath, it's as real andphysical as it gets.

 

[VCO]

It has everything to do with the day, Yahweh has set up His own Set Apart (Holy) Days, these are the days that He wants to be worshiped. The World has set up their own "Holidays" allof which were at one point or another days dedicated to the worship of false gods. Christmas, Easter, Haloween, the way we keep birthdays, and even the origins of Valentines day and others were all at one point "how pagans worshiped their gods" and here is what Yahweh says about that,

Deuteronomy 12:30-32
30. take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'
31. You shall not worship Yahweh your Elohim in that way; for every abomination to Yahweh which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
32. "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

Read Leviticus Chapter 23 in regards to "What He commanded and prescribed as true proper Holy Worship".

And as for "what is in our Heart"

Jeremiah 17:9
9. "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Matthew 15:19
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

READ my previous posts on this thread if you want learn what we really believe. BUT, I am not about to repeat everything I already said, and I CERTAINLY do not want to Argue with anyone else with the opposite point of view.


Romans 7:6 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

Romans 7:6 (YLT)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and now we have ceased from the law, that being dead in which we were held, so that we may serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.




Hebrews 7:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.


Romans 13:8-10 (NCV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Do not owe people anything, except always owe love to each other, because the person who loves others has obeyed all the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The law says, “You must not be guilty of adultery. You must not murder anyone. You must not steal. You must not want to take your neighbor’s things.“ All these commands and all others are really only one rule: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.“
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love never hurts a neighbor, so loving is obeying all the law.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Every time you fooled Christians.. you are under a curse and will die because you believe that the Sabbaths of YHWH Elohim and of Messiah are done. Foolish people who elevate lies as if they are true why don't you look up the scriptures relating to the thousand year reign of Messiah to see they still will keep Sabbath? If you really believe that you should be focused on the eternal truth why don't you trust what Messiah did as example to live like? So to you all because you are decieved

 

[MattforJesus]

Every time you fooled Christians.. you are under a curse and will die because you believe that the Sabbaths of YHWH Elohim and of Messiah are done. Foolish people who elevate lies as if they are true why don't you look up the scriptures relating to the thousand year reign of Messiah to see they still will keep Sabbath? If you really believe that you should be focused on the eternal truth why don't you trust what Messiah did as example to live like? So to you all because you are decieved

ol 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let No One Disqualify You
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

It is a spiritual sabbath in the New Testament by the Spirit,and Jesus did away with the physical ordinances of Israel because they had no bearing on spiritual salvation,but were only temporary until Jesus came,because in the Old Testament they could not have the Spirit.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

The battle of Armageddon is when the beast and the world attack the Jews,and God comes back with His saints,and puts the world down,in which the plague is their flesh shall melt off their bones by the brightness of God,and all those who are left of the nations that went against Israel have to go up year after year to worship the LORD,and keep the feast of tabernacles.

Jesus and the saints in glorified bodies will rule over the people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon,and they will be in the flesh,so they have to keep the Old Testament feast of tabernacles to stay right with God,during the time Jesus and the saints rule over them,for they cannot be spiritual for they took the mark of the beast,and attacked Israel.

It is not Jesus and the saints that have to abide by any Old Testament physical ordinances,for they are in glorified bodies and spiritual,but it is the people that are in the flesh,that cannot be spiritual,that have to keep any physical ordinances that God has them keep.

I have not read of any other physical ordinances they have to go by but the feast of tabernacles,but whatever God has them keep it is to keep them right with God,because they are in the flesh,and cannot be spiritual.

Jesus and the saints keep no physical ordinances,and what would they rest from physically seeing they are spiritual,and do not get tired for they have no flesh.It is the heathen in the flesh that has to keep any physical ordinances that God has them keep to be right with Him.

 

[JohnTalmid]

It's Not a spiritual Sabbath like you claim it is the festival of unleavened bread. Very simple to understand but you would rather not study to see for yourself and I cannot convince you only plead with you all to study it yourself. For example instant response shows proof of your understanding rather than being a good listener. In stead test every word. You may have to go back to the root.

Why did the early church keep Sabbath?

Why does Messiah keep it?

Why does scripture say we are going to keep it in the Kingdom if you are not to keep it now?

Don't try and dispensationalism your way out either. I fear in part blindness has come upon the nations as it came upon Israel. Except for the spirit that withholds the truth be removed most will not see.

 

[JohnTalmid]

By the way I call BS. (Bible Study lol). Many had the holy Spirit in so call "old testament times". What of the prophets and the 70 and Moshe? Who all had the spirit. What about the children of Israel that where gifted to make music, work in gold, silver, etc.