Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,464
13,409
113
58
Oh i do know. Now please show me one passage that backs the idea that it change anything other than were the law is written.
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

*Are you implying that compliance with these stringent regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced along with the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) and being put to death for working on the Sabbath and being cut off from his people (Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36) is binding on Christians today under the New Covenant? Does your church enforce this?
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
sorry...can't stay Babies for ever ! have you got children ? then you will know what I mean !
And grand kids. I am so thankful that mine grow up. The thing is, if HaShem wants me go much over 1/4 mile, he is going to have to carry me. LOL Not that I am lazy, I just can't physically walk that much.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Oh i do know. Now please show me one passage that backs the idea that it change anything other than were the law is written.

It does not change a thing. The word of God is all one perfect law. (no philosophical theories of men) The letter of the law called the law of Moses kills showing all men who do not have the spirit of Christ die in theri sin . while the spirit of the law comapring spirutl word to the spiritul or faith to faith arereconciled by the prophets.

The law of Moses and the prophets, as all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)make up the authority by which any man can believe God to include a Jew.They would be the two witnesses killed in Revelation.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
I am sure you know Biblical Law, so let me ask. Just why was the passages you gave so stringent?



True we are not commanded to be circumcised. At lest not in the flesh. That is a sign of the covenant with Avraham, not the Gentile. Yet funny how the Sabbath was given before man was removed from the Garden. Gen.2:2-3. That being said, one can't say it is for the Jewish people only.


QUOTE]


The laws were so stringent to show that we need Christ Himself and not our own human effort to try to obtain righteousness.

There is no command for man to keep the Sabbath Day as outlined in the law of Moses from Genesis 2

Sabbath keepers and replacing Christ Himself who is our true Sabbath rest for their own "work of resting" as outlined in the Old Covenant.

Let me ask you a question:

If Gentile doesn't observe the Sabbath Day as outlined in the law of Moses - from Friday night until Saturday. - will they be sinning and dis-obeying God?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Oh i do know. Now please show me one passage that backs the idea that it change anything other than were the law is written.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
[FONT=&quot]26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Galatians 3:2-5
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113


Let me ask you a question:

If Gentile doesn't observe the Sabbath Day as outlined in the law of Moses - from Friday night until Saturday. - will they be sinning and dis-obeying God?
They are if they can be convinced that they are.

'According to your faith be it unto you'

1 Corinthians 8:6-7
[FONT=&quot]6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.[/FONT]
7 [FONT=&quot]Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.[/FONT]
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
And grand kids. I am so thankful that mine grow up. The thing is, if HaShem wants me go much over 1/4 mile, he is going to have to carry me. LOL Not that I am lazy, I just can't physically walk that much.
Join the club ! God broke my hip and legbone last year to stop me gallopping about and spend more time with Him...a very effective measure...and then He expects me to walk the extra mile lol ???
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
And grand kids. I am so thankful that mine grow up. The thing is, if HaShem wants me go much over 1/4 mile, he is going to have to carry me. LOL Not that I am lazy, I just can't physically walk that much.
Ehh...no shirking now...it's the extra mile or you are done. If I can do it so can you...I'll give you a hand !
and I can beat you in re-producing as well, got great-grandchildren nearly teenagers...what do you say to that ???
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Do you not see that this is a direct quote from the OT?
Jer 31:31 “The day is coming,” says the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.
Jer 31:32 This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the LORD.
Jer 31:33 “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,” says the LORD. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

I won't bother with a word by word brake down on this. I only wish to make clear what this tells me. If you see it differently than I, then only the Holy Spirit can lead us to truth. Please note that I am not placing my self above you, nor am I in anyway submitting to your understanding.

This passage, is not making the Law of HaShem obsolete. One of the many reasons it was insufficient is that then like now, man wished to give their own personal interpretation. This is were we get the Rabbinic law that most, ( as it seems that you do) have seen fit to use as Biblical Law. I don't say this to be mean, or hateful. I say it as it seems to be true. You see, for close to 500 years, the Pharisees, and Sadducees replced Biblical law with their own, understanding. Like many church's today, they did not come about this over night. They spent many years, in study, the the 2 house's worked together and formed Rabbinic law. So now when you read Yeshua answering their questions, He is not changeing Law, he is simply given it it's true meaning.





*Are you implying that compliance with these stringent regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced along with the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) and being put to death for working on the Sabbath and being cut off from his people (Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36) is binding on Christians today under the New Covenant? Does your church enforce this?
As you well know, ( being as how you wished to portray your self as understanding the law) HaShem told us in the OT,
Psa 40:6
You take no delight in sacrifices or offerings. Now that you have made me listen, I finally understand you don’t require burnt offerings or sin offerings.
Isa 1:11
“What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
Hos 6:6
I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices. I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings.

Kind of removes you argument about sacrifices. Sorry that one doesn't hold water at all, being as it was not wanted by HaShem. It also shows me that you may wise to study Law, before you try to teach it.

Before I move on, please explain Mat.5:17-18 for me. As I always do, I wish to understand your interpretation, before I give my own. It better helps you see the differences. You see that know giving my understanding first, would put a person on the defensive, and hens, would obscure, their true understanding. I am not saying you would change it, just that once you see what I have to say, you would not truly give yours, rather you would do your best to make it seem as though I am wrong. I have been down this road many times, and it always goes the same way.

So once more, please give your understanding of,
Mat 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You will note that I used the KJ. It was not to fill any need for wording, rather due to understanding that most like it best, as it seems to give them an out. Good luck.

Also understand, that until you give an answer to this, I see no reason to go further. You see, unlike most people, I know that until one finds a way around this passage, they argue for the teachings of man. After all, if this means just what it is telling us, and we understand it. I mean truly understand it, with an interpretation that reams in context, then any teaching of the Law being remove becomes invalid.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
Ehh...no shirking now...it's the extra mile or you are done. If I can do it so can you...I'll give you a hand !
and I can beat you in re-producing as well, got great-grandchildren nearly teenagers...what do you say to that ???
I say, you are better than me. I love all my kids,(that includes gran kids) However, they hear me asking all the time, why would anyone want to bring kids into this world right now? Then comes the question of why not, and long debate over right right or wrong. As they have learned about the Bible, and as best I can about prophecy, (not my strong subject) they also think that to bring a child into this world, may not be a good idea.

as for that extra mile, I have done mine I think. LOL I use to drive OTR, (over the road) and I have well over 2million miles under my belt. Yes it shows. LOL NO really, if HaShem needs me to walk the same miles I have driven, I know he wil give the strength to make it happen. That is if I am willing, and take just that first steep.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
It does not change a thing. The word of God is all one perfect law. (no philosophical theories of men) The letter of the law called the law of Moses kills showing all men who do not have the spirit of Christ die in theri sin . while the spirit of the law comapring spirutl word to the spiritul or faith to faith arereconciled by the prophets.

The law of Moses and the prophets, as all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)make up the authority by which any man can believe God to include a Jew.They would be the two witnesses killed in Revelation.
If you will follow the things I teach, you will find that I relay only on the Bible. It tells everything we need to know, and even gives it's own interpretation, of what it has to say. I will at times take a word, or phrase back to the language it was translated from, to show that there may be a misunderstanding of it. Yet to give my own private interpretation, no need to.
As for philosophy, no thanks. Have you not seen what that has done to the world. Look at history, and see what the philosophical kings did.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
I say, you are better than me. I love all my kids,(that includes gran kids) However, they hear me asking all the time, why would anyone want to bring kids into this world right now? Then comes the question of why not, and long debate over right right or wrong. As they have learned about the Bible, and as best I can about prophecy, (not my strong subject) they also think that to bring a child into this world, may not be a good idea.

as for that extra mile, I have done mine I think. LOL I use to drive OTR, (over the road) and I have well over 2million miles under my belt. Yes it shows. LOL NO really, if HaShem needs me to walk the same miles I have driven, I know he wil give the strength to make it happen. That is if I am willing, and take just that first steep.

Haha...what you really mean is that I am older than you but you are too polite to say so !!!
I am sure you have already taken the first step...nobody could know as much scripture if they hadn't.
love talking to you , God bless !
Oh btw, are you going to tell me what that 'secret weapon is you have in your hands...if I could see better I would not have to ask lol.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
Haha...what you really mean is that I am older than you but you are too polite to say so !!!
I am sure you have already taken the first step...nobody could know as much scripture if they hadn't.
love talking to you , God bless !
Oh btw, are you going to tell me what that 'secret weapon is you have in your hands...if I could see better I would not have to ask lol.
Thats my cross bow. I love target shooting, and when I can I get into some copitition as well.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
I say, you are better than me. I love all my kids,(that includes gran kids) However, they hear me asking all the time, why would anyone want to bring kids into this world right now? Then comes the question of why not, and long debate over right right or wrong. As they have learned about the Bible, and as best I can about prophecy, (not my strong subject) they also think that to bring a child into this world, may not be a good idea.

as for that extra mile, I have done mine I think. LOL I use to drive OTR, (over the road) and I have well over 2million miles under my belt. Yes it shows. LOL NO really, if HaShem needs me to walk the same miles I have driven, I know he wil give the strength to make it happen. That is if I am willing, and take just that first steep.
Now I have heard it all ! when did Jesus say we could 'drive' the extra mile ??? you are just looking for an easy way...DRIVING into the Kingdom...novel idea ! I'll have to look it up in scripture !

What's OTR ? could be what we call 'long distance ? nobody would gain millions of miles just nipping round the corner....'it's a record, well done, but I'm not letting you off...get your walking-boots on ! bless.
 
Feb 1, 2014
733
33
0
If anyone is sincerely concerned with the Sabbath issue after being subjected to Sabbathkeeper rhetoric I highly suggest the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. It addresses the Seventh Day Adventist claims concerning Colossians 2:16-17. The portion on this is written by Old Testament scholar Jerry Gladson. There is a Seventh Day Adventist on the forums aggressively spamming threads advertising his own website claiming Sabbathbreaking will be the Mark of the Beast. I grew up in a family with a similar mentality and am aggressively against that sort of paranoid, uninformed mentality.

Anyways it is a PDF file and is 8.00. This is not my website. I am simply providing the link as I am concerned about Judaizer influences here.

https://www.ratzlaf.com/Sabbath-in-Christ-eBook-in-pdf-file-sicepdf.htm
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
Now I have heard it all ! when did Jesus say we could 'drive' the extra mile ??? you are just looking for an easy way...DRIVING into the Kingdom...novel idea ! I'll have to look it up in scripture !

What's OTR ? could be what we call 'long distance ? nobody would gain millions of miles just nipping round the corner....'it's a record, well done, but I'm not letting you off...get your walking-boots on ! bless.
OTR = (OVER THE ROAD) is term used by Truck driver for long haul yes. I been all this great nation, and loved every bit of it. Some of the people not so much. Funny really, how I seen the ocean on both sides, and the mountains on both sides and in the middle. Yet I find my little corner of the desert to the best place for me. I don't even like the 100 - 150 degree heat. LOL I think it is the wide open, where a person can see for 100 miles if you stand in the right place. Then it may be the sand, that me and my 4X4 get to play in.

As for driving the extra mile, why not? He wasn't talking to folks that had cars, so why can't we adapt that to this time? Sure can get there faster. Better yet why not fly? I kind of think we will be doing that in the next life. I want to go zipping around the cosmos, and see first hand some of the really cool things that are out there. Like the nebula's, and maybe a nova or 2.

Until then I will put on my boots, and walk around the corner. Ok so it isn't a mile, it's going from my back yard to the side of my house. I am still changing streets, so that has to count for something.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
If anyone is sincerely concerned with the Sabbath issue after being subjected to Sabbathkeeper rhetoric I highly suggest the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. It addresses the Seventh Day Adventist claims concerning Colossians 2:16-17. The portion on this is written by Old Testament scholar Jerry Gladson. There is a Seventh Day Adventist on the forums aggressively spamming threads advertising his own website claiming Sabbathbreaking will be the Mark of the Beast. I grew up in a family with a similar mentality and am aggressively against that sort of paranoid, uninformed mentality.

Anyways it is a PDF file and is 8.00. This is not my website. I am simply providing the link as I am concerned about Judaizer influences here.

https://www.ratzlaf.com/Sabbath-in-Christ-eBook-in-pdf-file-sicepdf.htm
May I ask what you call a Judaizer?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
OTR = (OVER THE ROAD) is term used by Truck driver for long haul yes. I been all this great nation, and loved every bit of it. Some of the people not so much. Funny really, how I seen the ocean on both sides, and the mountains on both sides and in the middle. Yet I find my little corner of the desert to the best place for me. I don't even like the 100 - 150 degree heat. LOL I think it is the wide open, where a person can see for 100 miles if you stand in the right place. Then it may be the sand, that me and my 4X4 get to play in.

As for driving the extra mile, why not? He wasn't talking to folks that had cars, so why can't we adapt that to this time? Sure can get there faster. Better yet why not fly? I kind of think we will be doing that in the next life. I want to go zipping around the cosmos, and see first hand some of the really cool things that are out there. Like the nebula's, and maybe a nova or 2.

Until then I will put on my boots, and walk around the corner. Ok so it isn't a mile, it's going from my back yard to the side of my house. I am still changing streets, so that has to count for something.
Oh you little cheat...walking from one street to the other is just another excuse ...think you are teasing me ! But yes we will fly not only visiting the Universe but ...dare I say...ruling it with God...that's if we have learnt to walk first...starting with Jesus 24/7...hard slog ! so...are you in Texas or Arizona , did you say New Mexico ? I am just in the cold and dreary North of England. bless
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
May I ask what you call a Judaizer?
O-O...don't go there ! they love to hand out these labels to anyone who is obedient to Jesus. .stabbing insults is what they are good at...never speak to them, let it pass !
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,533
87
48
Oh you little cheat...walking from one street to the other is just another excuse ...think you are teasing me ! But yes we will fly not only visiting the Universe but ...dare I say...ruling it with God...that's if we have learnt to walk first...starting with Jesus 24/7...hard slog ! so...are you in Texas or Arizona , did you say New Mexico ? I am just in the cold and dreary North of England. bless
Yes New Mexico. Only 18 miles from Tx going east, and 80 or so going south.

Hay you can't blame a man for trying can you? After brakeing my back in 2001, it is had to do much walking. Tell you what, I am willing to walk with you, and then if one of us falls down, we will have some help getting back up. LOL