You are wrong sir. Here you quote scripture about people who are converting to a different way than the spirit that tries in their minds and philosophy to justify the condition of the flesh. My spirit testify against the flesh and the law has freed my life by way of liberty. That is Messiah not only freed me from sin and death but made the way to stay in and have life, rest, peace, etc. The thing keeping most away from the promise is their unbelief and unwillingness to cross over.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Paul says this as we know:
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
and this:
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
This agrees with John when he says:
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So the deeds of the law do not justify but rather the law shows sin.
what I am hearing is that when the law says:
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Paul suggest it means, thou shalt not covet. Which is good because that is what it says and thus clearly shows or gives the reader knowledge of sin. A person can simply read it and know that coveting what is not yours is sin. Sure one can go deeper but its a good start and is plain.
But when it comes to the Sabbath people seem to think differently. It says:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Now When I read that I assume that just like the other nine it is doing exactly what Paul says it is doing. It is showing me what sin is, giving me a knowledge of sin. Not that the Sabbath is sin but rather it shows what is good as Paul said:
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
So then if one is to read the 4th commandment in the same way we do the other nine we end up seeing that it is good to remember the Sabbath day which according to the commandment is the 7th day and one keeps it by simply not working on that day according to what it says. And the reason for it is given also because God blessed and set it apart as holy on the 7th day after 6 days of creation.
Now I am not the smartest person in the world, But I am pretty sure that Israel would read that the same way I do. So then clearly as the law gives a knowledge of sin by showing what is good we then conclude that not remembering the 7th day Sabbath and working on it is sin just as coveting is sin and murdering is sin etc.
Yet I am being told that the 4th commandment does not mean what it says. So why in your mind does God give a law that was supposed to show what sin is to make it plain so that people would know what sin is and then totally confuse everyone by making the 4th commandment about a day whein really it has nothing to do with a day?
Do you see the issue I am having?
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
and this:
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
This agrees with John when he says:
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So the deeds of the law do not justify but rather the law shows sin.
what I am hearing is that when the law says:
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Paul suggest it means, thou shalt not covet. Which is good because that is what it says and thus clearly shows or gives the reader knowledge of sin. A person can simply read it and know that coveting what is not yours is sin. Sure one can go deeper but its a good start and is plain.
But when it comes to the Sabbath people seem to think differently. It says:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Now When I read that I assume that just like the other nine it is doing exactly what Paul says it is doing. It is showing me what sin is, giving me a knowledge of sin. Not that the Sabbath is sin but rather it shows what is good as Paul said:
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
So then if one is to read the 4th commandment in the same way we do the other nine we end up seeing that it is good to remember the Sabbath day which according to the commandment is the 7th day and one keeps it by simply not working on that day according to what it says. And the reason for it is given also because God blessed and set it apart as holy on the 7th day after 6 days of creation.
Now I am not the smartest person in the world, But I am pretty sure that Israel would read that the same way I do. So then clearly as the law gives a knowledge of sin by showing what is good we then conclude that not remembering the 7th day Sabbath and working on it is sin just as coveting is sin and murdering is sin etc.
Yet I am being told that the 4th commandment does not mean what it says. So why in your mind does God give a law that was supposed to show what sin is to make it plain so that people would know what sin is and then totally confuse everyone by making the 4th commandment about a day whein really it has nothing to do with a day?
Do you see the issue I am having?
When we try to show love, it is not the same as showing love. However, it is not what we do, rather what our intent is when doing a thing. Are we doing a kind act in hops of personal gain? if so then that is not love, though it may be seen as that by some.
If I am getting this right, and please forgive me if I am wrong. When one enters into a covenant with HaShem they are entering a Blood Covenant. If one is Israeli by birth, or as a gentile, they are saying yes to the same covenant. As we can see in Rom. 11.Israel is the root, and counted as the natural branches. The gentile, or Goyim if you will, are see as grafted in. I look at and see us as more like red headed steep children. LOL
All the blessing, we get to take part in, yet along with that we also get the curses for disobedience. That is why I say redheaded steep kids. The Sabbath is open for all that wish to keep it. Just as the feast are, along with every part of the Avrahamic covenant.
I do wish to give a word of caution on this. Study the law, or find someone to help you, find what does and doesn't pertain to you. To try and follow laws that are not binding for what ever reason, can lead one down a road best left untraveled. I am willing to guide you, in any thing you need help with. However keep in mind that I will not try to change your understanding, or force a thing on you that you are not willing to take on.
I will answer anything with total honesty, as best I can. If it seem as though you may be going down a road that is not right, I will point it out. I am not going to say, don't do that, or you better do this. Your salvation is yours. It can only be worked out between you and HaShem.
If I am getting this right, and please forgive me if I am wrong. When one enters into a covenant with HaShem they are entering a Blood Covenant. If one is Israeli by birth, or as a gentile, they are saying yes to the same covenant. As we can see in Rom. 11.Israel is the root, and counted as the natural branches. The gentile, or Goyim if you will, are see as grafted in. I look at and see us as more like red headed steep children. LOL
All the blessing, we get to take part in, yet along with that we also get the curses for disobedience. That is why I say redheaded steep kids. The Sabbath is open for all that wish to keep it. Just as the feast are, along with every part of the Avrahamic covenant.
I do wish to give a word of caution on this. Study the law, or find someone to help you, find what does and doesn't pertain to you. To try and follow laws that are not binding for what ever reason, can lead one down a road best left untraveled. I am willing to guide you, in any thing you need help with. However keep in mind that I will not try to change your understanding, or force a thing on you that you are not willing to take on.
I will answer anything with total honesty, as best I can. If it seem as though you may be going down a road that is not right, I will point it out. I am not going to say, don't do that, or you better do this. Your salvation is yours. It can only be worked out between you and HaShem.
Last edited:
Sadly, when you talk of the Law to some people, not all. They will show you one passage after another to back the idea that the Sabbath is no more. Then you will find some that say all of the Law has been removed. Having taken the time to really at this from that point of view, I not convinced it is right. Will I be the first to say that not every law in the Torah are for meant for all people, yes. Will I work to show why I can say that and know that I am right, Yes. Am I going to say that a person that wants to forget the law is wrong, not really. You see, as I said before, and most likely will many times over, your salvation is between you and HaShem. Get it wrong, and to bad so sad, get it right, and follow that at any cost, the blessing will be more than you can dream.
I wil say I like your thinking, The Torah tells us, not to remove any part of it. To do so is a sin. So to remove the Sabbath is in my mind wrong. Am I saying that if one doesn't follow it, they will burn in hell? That is not my call to make. Only HaShem can make that call. Once more I am not here to convert, I am only hear to do what is placed on my heart.
I wil say I like your thinking, The Torah tells us, not to remove any part of it. To do so is a sin. So to remove the Sabbath is in my mind wrong. Am I saying that if one doesn't follow it, they will burn in hell? That is not my call to make. Only HaShem can make that call. Once more I am not here to convert, I am only hear to do what is placed on my heart.
Jesus said that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man. It is designed for rest from a week of working. The day you spend time with God, and not for your own pleasure like a lot of people do. As far as the law is concerned. It was written for one purpose, and that was to expose the sins of the Israelites to show them that they were all sinners,because none could keep it. The only way now to keep the law is being spirit filled with the spirit of God in you. That is what makes you walk right, and talk right. ,and all the laws are in the Holy spirit. Because if it was not, no Christian cold keep the law in their heart,unless they had the Holy Spirit. A spirit of holiness guides you to all truth.
I can agree with this. I am a logical thinking person, logic is very important to me. It has to make sense.
The law was given to show us sin and then lead us to Christ. This is the most important thing that the word of God does as a whole, lead us to Christ. This is Gods desire, so it makes no sense in my thinking For God to give a law that is partly literal and then chuck on commandment in there that is not literal and not say so. The very law that is to make us aware of sin and lead us to the saviour. If God wants to save us it makes far more sense that He gives a law that means exactly what it says.
The law was given to show us sin and then lead us to Christ. This is the most important thing that the word of God does as a whole, lead us to Christ. This is Gods desire, so it makes no sense in my thinking For God to give a law that is partly literal and then chuck on commandment in there that is not literal and not say so. The very law that is to make us aware of sin and lead us to the saviour. If God wants to save us it makes far more sense that He gives a law that means exactly what it says.
On top of that, If the Sabbath was not meant to be taken as it reads then why did He not make it clear. And why did he not just say what he meant. and if it was not literal then Why is it the only one that has a reason attached to it within the commandment itself. and that reason leads you to a literal day where God literally blessed and made it Holy.
If God did not mean it to be literal He has failed big time in communicating that. Now of course I don't think that of God. I think he said what he meant and meant what He said. Thus no confusion and no mental gymnastics required. Just a child like acceptance of what He said.
If God did not mean it to be literal He has failed big time in communicating that. Now of course I don't think that of God. I think he said what he meant and meant what He said. Thus no confusion and no mental gymnastics required. Just a child like acceptance of what He said.
Ps where is Jesus in all this? he is the creator who played by his father in Proverbs 8. he is the maker of all things as John 1 says. He is the firstborn of creation as Paul says in Col 1. He is Lord of the Sabbath. His Character is most seen in that Commandment.
God creates and supplies all of human needs and then makes us and gives us dominion of that which he provided for us and we rest in his provision. Form the beginning God was the one who provided everything for us and we did not have to earn it or work to have it. This was before sin. Sin did not change God He just did what he always does as that is who he is. He provided for the situation. Just as we could not earn dominion of the earth or make it ourselves so we can not earn our salvation or make way for our own salvation. This is why I believe God added Sabbaths to the sacrificial feast to teach this same lesson. When they kept sacrificial Sabbaths they would also be reminded of the 7th day Sabbath and thus learn that God is provider and we can simply rest in his provision and power to establish His will by His word.
God creates and supplies all of human needs and then makes us and gives us dominion of that which he provided for us and we rest in his provision. Form the beginning God was the one who provided everything for us and we did not have to earn it or work to have it. This was before sin. Sin did not change God He just did what he always does as that is who he is. He provided for the situation. Just as we could not earn dominion of the earth or make it ourselves so we can not earn our salvation or make way for our own salvation. This is why I believe God added Sabbaths to the sacrificial feast to teach this same lesson. When they kept sacrificial Sabbaths they would also be reminded of the 7th day Sabbath and thus learn that God is provider and we can simply rest in his provision and power to establish His will by His word.
Jesus said that he is Lord of the Sabbath , He was caught teaching and preaching on the Sabbath and they wanted to kill him for it. He described it somewhat like this. If you had an oxen stuck in the mud on the day of Sabbath , would you not go and pull him out, or would you let him die? If you are going to rest on the Sabbath then keep it Holy and worship God on that day and use it for nothing else unless someone is in need of help. things happen 24/7 and if something go wrong on the Sabbath, somebody has to go and fix it.
Not only unwilling but also afraid...afraid to step away from trad/nom teaching which is well-established/ingrained but out of step with scripture. When one is blind or asleep one can not see the difference ...hence the urgent call to 'wake up...apply eyesalve...put on spiritual glasses...call out to God...whatever it takes to be healed of blindness and ignorance !
Good evening RainRider,
Anyone can keep the Sabbath on whatever day they prefer. For as scripture says, "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." Same thing regarding the food law, which is no longer in operation, along with the rest of the law. One man's faith allows him to only eat vegetables and another man's faith allows him to eat everything.
What is important for you to understand is that, if you are keeping the Sabbath or abstaining from foods or anything else that of the law as a requirement for salvation, then you are trusting in your own efforts by adding to what Christ already accomplished.
I have seen from your responses that you don't understand the principals of this. Here's something for you to consider: No where in the NT testament are we told that keeping the Sabbath is necessary for salvation. Neither is the Sabbath mentioned in the letters to the seven churches nor is the word Sabbath even found in the book of Revelation. You would think that if the keeping of the Sabbath was paramount to obtaining salvation that it would be mentioned somewhere in Revelation, yet it is not mentioned anywhere.
The word of God makes it very clear that the law was nailed to the cross and that we are under a completely new covenant. The law has been made obsolete. Don't you understand that when you make these things requirements for salvation, that you are not truly trusting in Christ who fulfilled the law completely. If you were, you would have no other requirements for salvation.
Anyone can keep the Sabbath on whatever day they prefer. For as scripture says, "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." Same thing regarding the food law, which is no longer in operation, along with the rest of the law. One man's faith allows him to only eat vegetables and another man's faith allows him to eat everything.
What is important for you to understand is that, if you are keeping the Sabbath or abstaining from foods or anything else that of the law as a requirement for salvation, then you are trusting in your own efforts by adding to what Christ already accomplished.
I have seen from your responses that you don't understand the principals of this. Here's something for you to consider: No where in the NT testament are we told that keeping the Sabbath is necessary for salvation. Neither is the Sabbath mentioned in the letters to the seven churches nor is the word Sabbath even found in the book of Revelation. You would think that if the keeping of the Sabbath was paramount to obtaining salvation that it would be mentioned somewhere in Revelation, yet it is not mentioned anywhere.
The word of God makes it very clear that the law was nailed to the cross and that we are under a completely new covenant. The law has been made obsolete. Don't you understand that when you make these things requirements for salvation, that you are not truly trusting in Christ who fulfilled the law completely. If you were, you would have no other requirements for salvation.
When you read any post by me, I know that HaShem, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit are all one. So feel free to place the title you think best in any place you find may not fit your thinking.
Yeshua, is and will always be in the Word. He can be found in every chapter, and verse. You are right alvation has been gained by our own hand, Even Abraham, was gifted salvation by his faith.
Yeshua, is and will always be in the Word. He can be found in every chapter, and verse. You are right alvation has been gained by our own hand, Even Abraham, was gifted salvation by his faith.
The Sabbath first assigened by our Father is the Day He gae to mankind to rest with Him, the Seventh Day after His works of six days creating all that we know.
Jesus Christ has given us rest, further resst. If you read carefully where He makes this declaration in the Gospel you will find that the res to which He is referring is rest in His teachings for the teaching of the jypocrites is burdensome.
Anyone who says they have permanent reast from thhis wo4rking for earnings and working to ive is terribly deluded.
All who believe are to follow the Example set by our Lord. He declared, His Father was working (even on the Sabbath) and so must He. The work is not finished until the work He began in all and each of us is finished, and tha will be on His Great and Glorious day.
Do not tell or teach others you already are at total rest; that is just nonsense.
Jesus Christ has given us rest, further resst. If you read carefully where He makes this declaration in the Gospel you will find that the res to which He is referring is rest in His teachings for the teaching of the jypocrites is burdensome.
Anyone who says they have permanent reast from thhis wo4rking for earnings and working to ive is terribly deluded.
All who believe are to follow the Example set by our Lord. He declared, His Father was working (even on the Sabbath) and so must He. The work is not finished until the work He began in all and each of us is finished, and tha will be on His Great and Glorious day.
Do not tell or teach others you already are at total rest; that is just nonsense.
Amen, salvation has only ever been by grace through faith.
I believe that God intended to pull Israel into the same covenant given Abraham. The only reason this did not happen is because they did not continue in his covenant made with Abraham.
Thus God had to spell out His expectation to them so that they would see what Abraham had learned, not by works but by faith. But they did not respond by faith they said:
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.
They treated the covenant as a contract rather than a promise to be received from God.
They should have realised that God was inviting them into the covenant promise given to Abraham:
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
And God showed that He had kept his promise to Abraham as it is written:
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Exo 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
and here:
Exo_2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
And God says to Israel that they have seen the promise begin to be fulfilled:
Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
The words "obey my voice" the word obey here actually means to listen with intent. the words "keep my covenant" the word keep holds the Idea of to cherish, the covenant/promise that He made with Abraham.
They thought they could do it so God humbled them with an understanding of the law that he gave them to show them what was in their hearts:
Deu 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
The very lesson Abraham learned. But Israel was Like Abraham with Hagar trying to fulfil the promises of God. they had to learn the lesson of the promised child brought to be by the will and power of God. Promise child not worked for child.
If they had simply continued in the Covenant made with Abraham and trusted god as Abraham did they would have been made righteous by gods power. just As Abraham who did not have the law was transformed so that God could say of him:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Even Paul saw this when he speaks of Abraham in Romans. anyway that is the short version. You probably already know all this.
My point is simple, those who live by faith like Abraham are transformed and keep the law even if they don't have it. But Israel who tried to work at the law missed the righteousness that Abraham received because they did not do it by faith.
I believe that God intended to pull Israel into the same covenant given Abraham. The only reason this did not happen is because they did not continue in his covenant made with Abraham.
Thus God had to spell out His expectation to them so that they would see what Abraham had learned, not by works but by faith. But they did not respond by faith they said:
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.
They treated the covenant as a contract rather than a promise to be received from God.
They should have realised that God was inviting them into the covenant promise given to Abraham:
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
And God showed that He had kept his promise to Abraham as it is written:
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Exo 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
and here:
Exo_2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
And God says to Israel that they have seen the promise begin to be fulfilled:
Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
The words "obey my voice" the word obey here actually means to listen with intent. the words "keep my covenant" the word keep holds the Idea of to cherish, the covenant/promise that He made with Abraham.
They thought they could do it so God humbled them with an understanding of the law that he gave them to show them what was in their hearts:
Deu 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
The very lesson Abraham learned. But Israel was Like Abraham with Hagar trying to fulfil the promises of God. they had to learn the lesson of the promised child brought to be by the will and power of God. Promise child not worked for child.
If they had simply continued in the Covenant made with Abraham and trusted god as Abraham did they would have been made righteous by gods power. just As Abraham who did not have the law was transformed so that God could say of him:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Even Paul saw this when he speaks of Abraham in Romans. anyway that is the short version. You probably already know all this.
My point is simple, those who live by faith like Abraham are transformed and keep the law even if they don't have it. But Israel who tried to work at the law missed the righteousness that Abraham received because they did not do it by faith.
Galatians 5:1 [FONT="]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[/FONT]So you are claiming success at this?
I don't think you understand. Just a few pages back you claimed those who work at the law are the ones who have salvation.
So you can have one or the other, but not both.
[/FONT]So you are claiming success at this?
I don't think you understand. Just a few pages back you claimed those who work at the law are the ones who have salvation.
So you can have one or the other, but not both.
