Sabbath
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Um nope way off on a lot of it
if you wish to bear the unbearable yoke the apostles warned the church is a subversion of the soul I would at least read chaoter 15 of acts fist your going to find that you are wrong if you do unless your interpretation is to ignore what’s plainly written by Jesus appointed apostles
they already answered this in full plain straight forward language I’m going to go ahead and believe it me follow the gospel
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
and go ahead and avoid placing yoke on myself and others that no one can bear
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.”
Acts 15:5-6, 10, 24-26, 28-29 KJV
It seems pretty plain that it’s a false teaching to teach people they are obligated to Moses law
“certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
it also seems like it was the ordination of angels ? And not the son of God
“Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”
Colossians 2:18 KJV
What he’s talking about is this when isreal received the law
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.”
Acts 7:41-42, 53-54
And this
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19
Christ however holds this position
“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
Hebrews 1:2-6 KJV
angels ordained the law because of what isreal did with the calf God had turned them over to the angels
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven”
the law is under this ordination is why it can’t save anyone
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
It isn’t designed to forgive sin it is designed to impute every sin and transgression , we aren’t beholden to angels without mercy or that word
“Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
Deuteronomy 25:12 KJV
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21
But the gospel isn’t That it’s contrary
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
that’s opposite doctrine because Christ didn’t speak the law , when they made the calf and worshipped it God spoke through angels and gave the angels disposition to the law because it was never the gospel of salvstion but was meant to bring us to the gospel ot was only going to last until Christ came to speak Gods truth not through angels but himself
Um nope way off on a lot of it
if you wish to bear the unbearable yoke the apostles warned the church is a subversion of the soul I would at least read chaoter 15 of acts fist your going to find that you are wrong if you do unless your interpretation is to ignore what’s plainly written by Jesus appointed apostles
they already answered this in full plain straight forward language I’m going to go ahead and believe it me follow the gospel
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
and go ahead and avoid placing yoke on myself and others that no one can bear
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.”
Acts 15:5-6, 10, 24-26, 28-29 KJV
It seems pretty plain that it’s a false teaching to teach people they are obligated to Moses law
“certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
it also seems like it was the ordination of angels ? And not the son of God
“Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”
Colossians 2:18 KJV
What he’s talking about is this when isreal received the law
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.”
Acts 7:41-42, 53-54
And this
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19
Christ however holds this position
“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
Hebrews 1:2-6 KJV
angels ordained the law because of what isreal did with the calf God had turned them over to the angels
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven”
the law is under this ordination is why it can’t save anyone
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
It isn’t designed to forgive sin it is designed to impute every sin and transgression , we aren’t beholden to angels without mercy or that word
“Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
Deuteronomy 25:12 KJV
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21
But the gospel isn’t That it’s contrary
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
that’s opposite doctrine because Christ didn’t speak the law , when they made the calf and worshipped it God spoke through angels and gave the angels disposition to the law because it was never the gospel of salvstion but was meant to bring us to the gospel ot was only going to last until Christ came to speak Gods truth not through angels but himself
In Romans 7:12 Paul calls the law Holy, righteous and good... Why would someone teach to get rid of something holy, righteous and good?
You have to understand the foundation of the first covenant (old testament) in order to understand the renewed one. When the law is spoken of it is separated into two parts... and here I don't mean spiritually and physically. It is separated by keeping the law (which leads to blessings), and breaking the law... aka sin (which leads to curses). You can find this in Duet 11:26-28.
When Paul speaks of the "curse of the law" and what was "nailed to the cross"... He is speaking about the penalties from breaking the law (sin). The law itself, or keeping the law is righteous and a blessing... breaking the law is a curse.
yep it was good never said different, your missing it’s purpose again look how plain this is
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Right plain whatever the law said was to those under the law , for the purpose of bringing them to God being guilty by the breaking of the law and knowing thier sin
it’s meant to bring us to the only savior it was always only meant for that
The gospel is this without the law entirely
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21
again not needing interpretation at all Gods righteousness comes without the law , the law can justify no one. Or it’s deeds and it’s for the purpose of holding sin against people so they will believe the gospel about repentance and remission of sins the opposite of importation of sins
Why would someone put there selves here after believing the gospel
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
it’s a law for sinful people who won’t repent take a look at what God said about them when he had Moses wrote the law he said they’d never repent and then gave the witness against them the law
sorry you don’t see it , it’s definately been fulfilled and isn’t for a Christian
i
I said it’s fulfilled by Christ and he took it away
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Right plain whatever the law said was to those under the law , for the purpose of bringing them to God being guilty by the breaking of the law and knowing thier sin
it’s meant to bring us to the only savior it was always only meant for that
The gospel is this without the law entirely
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21
again not needing interpretation at all Gods righteousness comes without the law , the law can justify no one. Or it’s deeds and it’s for the purpose of holding sin against people so they will believe the gospel about repentance and remission of sins the opposite of importation of sins
Why would someone put there selves here after believing the gospel
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
it’s a law for sinful people who won’t repent take a look at what God said about them when he had Moses wrote the law he said they’d never repent and then gave the witness against them the law
sorry you don’t see it , it’s definately been fulfilled and isn’t for a Christian
i
I said it’s fulfilled by Christ and he took it away
naw it’s not going to go anywhere I knew that earlier I just can’t sleep so I thought I’d try to show you some things I don’t think you understand but I don’t really see the point I think your faith is in a different place from mine but thanks for the time and conversation sorry we couldn’t find some agreement
yes brother there is absolutely no hard feelings whatsoever it’s often okay to disagree in fact in this very issue there’s doctrine explaining that part
What matters is what you are convinced of for you and what I am convinced of for me we each have to honor those things in our faith
“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.”
Romans 14:1,
it’s alright to dosagree on things like this and often disagreeing at first just needs the scripture to sink in and agreement can later come
What matters is what you are convinced of for you and what I am convinced of for me we each have to honor those things in our faith
“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.”
Romans 14:1,
it’s alright to dosagree on things like this and often disagreeing at first just needs the scripture to sink in and agreement can later come
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Of it is, because that is what the verse says.
The enmity is the law of Moses.
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,
The law of Moses has been abolished in His flesh, nailed to the cross.
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14
We don’t observe the Sabbath as the law of Moses dictated, as these were just shadows of things to come, but the substance of those things is Christ.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:16-17
JPT
We have the freedom to choose as we want, however there are consequences for our choices. I've addressed Romans 14 in one of my earlier posts. Verses in this chapter are commonly taken out of context to support lawlessness. The context for romans 14 is FASTING. There was a big debate at the time about fasting and people were judging others about what they eat (meat vs vegetarian as we see in verse 2) and which days they fast (as we see in verse 5).
In the Fathers law, other than the day of atonement, there is no law telling us when or how to fast. So judging others based off of their fasting choices would be unlawful. Without understanding the context, verses in this chapter are cherry picked to support breaking dietary laws and the sabbath... However the people spoken to here were keeping those laws, the problem was they were judging others based of of man made laws (when and how to fast).
Its a big misconception that as followers of the Messiah that we should not judge. As multiple scriptures say we just need to make sure we judge "righteously" (according to Gods law) and not hypocritically (when we are actively committing the same sins we are judging on).
In the Fathers law, other than the day of atonement, there is no law telling us when or how to fast. So judging others based off of their fasting choices would be unlawful. Without understanding the context, verses in this chapter are cherry picked to support breaking dietary laws and the sabbath... However the people spoken to here were keeping those laws, the problem was they were judging others based of of man made laws (when and how to fast).
Its a big misconception that as followers of the Messiah that we should not judge. As multiple scriptures say we just need to make sure we judge "righteously" (according to Gods law) and not hypocritically (when we are actively committing the same sins we are judging on).
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Again... what was nailed to the cross was the "curse of the law" (penalties associated with breaking it) NOT the "blessings of the law" (what we receive by keeping it).
Even Paul points out in multiple scriptures that we are still judged by our actions (what we do):
Romans 2:6-11
6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.
13 For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified.
I've already explained the context for Colossians:
Colossians 2:16
16 Therefore, let no one judge you in matters of food and drink or with respect to a festival, a New Moon, or Sabbath days.
These again were people that were KEEPING THE LAW, and Paul was saying don't let others judge you for doing so.
Even Paul points out in multiple scriptures that we are still judged by our actions (what we do):
Romans 2:6-11
6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.
13 For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified.
I've already explained the context for Colossians:
Colossians 2:16
16 Therefore, let no one judge you in matters of food and drink or with respect to a festival, a New Moon, or Sabbath days.
These again were people that were KEEPING THE LAW, and Paul was saying don't let others judge you for doing so.
I see exactly what you mean.
You quote a scripture dealing with the non-necessity of observing sabbath.
Sabbatarian response: "That is taken out of context. It's actually referring to something else."
You quote Galatians relating to Jesus being the only way we can be made righteous (through his fulfilment of the law).
Sabbatarian response: "Ah, well that book was only written for one of the 613 commandments, the other 612 (or at least the sabbath) still apply".
You mount a logical case demonstrating the linkage between the scripture with non-necessity of sabbath and scripture to the book of Galatians.
Sabbatarian response: "That's just your interpretation".
All I can say is that if I had to choose between false teachings, I'd sooner be a Jew. At least the Jews are consistent within their own beliefs.
You quote a scripture dealing with the non-necessity of observing sabbath.
Sabbatarian response: "That is taken out of context. It's actually referring to something else."
You quote Galatians relating to Jesus being the only way we can be made righteous (through his fulfilment of the law).
Sabbatarian response: "Ah, well that book was only written for one of the 613 commandments, the other 612 (or at least the sabbath) still apply".
You mount a logical case demonstrating the linkage between the scripture with non-necessity of sabbath and scripture to the book of Galatians.
Sabbatarian response: "That's just your interpretation".
All I can say is that if I had to choose between false teachings, I'd sooner be a Jew. At least the Jews are consistent within their own beliefs.
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God blessed and sanctified the seventh day which is Saturday. Jesus kept Saturday Holy and said He is Lord of the Sabbath.
Please show me who or where God has unsanctified or taken the blessing away from that day.
No other day can claim this sanctified blessing. If you think it doesn't matter look up sanctified and why did God say Remember it?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
The Sabbath was made for mankind. At creation before any race (Jews), before sin.
Is it still for us today?
Please show me who or where God has unsanctified or taken the blessing away from that day.
No other day can claim this sanctified blessing. If you think it doesn't matter look up sanctified and why did God say Remember it?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
The Sabbath was made for mankind. At creation before any race (Jews), before sin.
Is it still for us today?