Sabbath

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Studyman

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I'm not sure how to answer that because we disagree on the meaning of the phrase "Deeds of the Law".

if I understand you, you see that phrase has referring to Commandments that God told Moses to tell the Levites regarding certain sacrifices relating to forgiving Sins.

I see the phrase as referring to actions that are prescribed by the law in general.

in Romans chapter 3 Paul is first talking about the Jews, then he talks about everyone Jews and gentiles.
I think it is wise to start at the beginning of Romans as opposed to just jumping on a scripture in the middle of His Letter that seems to support modern religious traditions.

What did the Jews do to get so messed up?

Rom. 1:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We know Jesus also explained what their downfall was.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and again:

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

We know the Jews were pushing their version of the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

The Jews were preaching that unless the Gentiles followed their religion, they couldn't be saved. We know they did the Tithing, and the Priesthood duties Moses commanded, but not the "weightier matter of the Law", like showing Mercy to people, and Using God's Judgment, and trusting in God which is the command of Faith.

In romans 2 Paul is explaining the perfection and judgment of God.

Rom. 2:
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

The Jews had rejected God's instructions and had created their own as Jesus said. This is Evil, not Good. Because as the Law and Prophets teaches from the beginning to the end:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This is the Same thing Jesus said over and over and over, both as the Word, and as the Man Jesus.

But the Pharisees were still sticking to their version of the Law of Moses for justification of sin.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

In Romans 3 Paul is continuing his conversation about them that started in Romans 1.


1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

So what if some didn't believe in Mercy, Just Judgment, Faith, all parts of God's Law? Shall their unbelief make these void?

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? ( tithing, animal sacrifice, the sprinkling of Blood) Nay: but by the law of faith. ( "Mercy, Judgment, Faith, that they had omitted.) Jesus said they should have "DONE" these and not let the others undone.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Remember, Jesus forgave sins "Without the Deeds of the Law" having not killed even one goat, or sprinkled even one drop of blood for 3 years. But He did walk in Mercy, Faith and Judgment of His Father. This "Change" this "New Covenant" was promised in Jer. 3.

Therefore, Paul is not saying man is not justified by obedience to the Law of Faith which is "mercy" (Love your neighbor) Judgment ( I am God, you are not) and Faith ( "Deny our self, take up our cross and follow the invisible Him)

He is saying the Jews were not justified by the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" added 430 years after Abraham. (Levi wasn't even born yet)

This is why Paul can say: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God."

sorry for the long post. Please examine it closely and let me know where I am in error if you think I am.
 

Studyman

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there were Commandments given to the Levites regarding sacrifices for sin. When a levite would perform the physical action prescribed buy those Commandments he was doing a work or deed of the law.

I disagree that I quoted a new age translation.

The phrase "attending a holy assembly on the Sabbath" doesn't literally occur in Romans chapter 3. it is an example of an action performed because it is prescribed by a commandment, so it is a work or deed of the law.

Another example would be returning your neighbor's sheep if it has wandered away. that is something prescribed by the law. So doing it is a work or deed of the law.

A modern-day example might be picking up your neighbor's trash can if it has blown out into the street on trash day. that would basically be a work or deed of the law. It's a good thing to do. but God won't say that you are right with him because you do it.
Remembering the Sabbath to keep it Holy was not a duty or "Deed" of the Priesthood for the remission of sins.

In other Words, there isn't a command that says "if you sin, go and remember to keep God's Holy Sabbath Holy" , and your sins will be cleansed. or "if you sin, go and Steal no more" and your sins will be cleansed, or "if you sin, go and don't create an image of God in the likeness of man and your sins will be forgiven..

But there were Laws, "added" 430 years after Abraham obeyed, that said "If you sin, find a Levite Priest and give him the best of your goats, and he will kill it and sprinkle it's blood on the alter to cleanse your sins from you.

Since we know the Mainstream Preachers of his time were not following "Mercy, Judgment, or faith, but were following Tithing, Priesthood Duties and Circumcision. I make sense that Paul would say to them:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And again.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by (the Law of) faith without the deeds of the law.(of works)
 

JohnTalmid

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Mar 17, 2017
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I'm not sure if we're thinking the same thing when we say imputed righteousness.

Is this imputed righteousness?
“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
I would say yes, that imputed is basically a synonym there for credited.

so is there credited righteousness? I would say yes.
Imputed righteousness as in the sense of Justification by Faith.
The thing I am speaking on would be more of a doctrinal dispute with this doctrine.

Righteousness was indeed credited to Abraham. However reason with all scriptures. Doesn't it also say of Abraham, "because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”Gen. 26:5
My mind races with scripture that confirms that testimony from the beginning of obedience.
The heart struggle against the perfect instruction is evident in a person who remains rebellious against Messiah if they fight against the simplest commandments like the Sabbath days. My charge is to by way of the Spirit of love seek out the sinner for Messiah's sake. He brought us all near the promise by the blood however where "justification by faith" doctrine would have you do nothing the "Word of Elohim" would have us do. This to me proves that "Calvinist" beliefs are at best doctrine of men, and worst doctrine of demons.
Sorry but Calvin aside for a moment. It is not by the works of the flesh one receives righteousness. It is through hearing the Word that one confessing their sin and returning to the instructions meant for edification of the assembly together as one new man that Messiah wants isn't it? We must submit to the Master of righteousness the Messiah our Father's way of Salvation. The Father's way is, has been, and always will be through living a godly life. He sanctified Israel through his Word. He provides the measure of Faith, the righteous way, and the redeemer himself Messiah to accomplish it in all who believe and walk according to His way.
Shalom in Messiah John Talmid
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Imputed righteousness as in the sense of Justification by Faith.
The thing I am speaking on would be more of a doctrinal dispute with this doctrine.

Righteousness was indeed credited to Abraham. However reason with all scriptures. Doesn't it also say of Abraham, "because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”Gen. 26:5
My mind races with scripture that confirms that testimony from the beginning of obedience.
The heart struggle against the perfect instruction is evident in a person who remains rebellious against Messiah if they fight against the simplest commandments like the Sabbath days. My charge is to by way of the Spirit of love seek out the sinner for Messiah's sake. He brought us all near the promise by the blood however where "justification by faith" doctrine would have you do nothing the "Word of Elohim" would have us do. This to me proves that "Calvinist" beliefs are at best doctrine of men, and worst doctrine of demons.
Sorry but Calvin aside for a moment. It is not by the works of the flesh one receives righteousness. It is through hearing the Word that one confessing their sin and returning to the instructions meant for edification of the assembly together as one new man that Messiah wants isn't it? We must submit to the Master of righteousness the Messiah our Father's way of Salvation. The Father's way is, has been, and always will be through living a godly life. He sanctified Israel through his Word. He provides the measure of Faith, the righteous way, and the redeemer himself Messiah to accomplish it in all who believe and walk according to His way.
Shalom in Messiah John Talmid
Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

A person has either come to Christ and entered His Rest or they continue to try and work at the law for their own righteousness, not understanding the law or Christ.

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


So then why are there so many that absolutely insist on working at the law?

Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Simple. They haven't come to faith in Christ, yet.
 

JohnTalmid

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Mar 17, 2017
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Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

A person has either come to Christ and entered His Rest or they continue to try and work at the law for their own righteousness, not understanding the law or Christ.

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


So then why are there so many that absolutely insist on working at the law?

Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Simple. They haven't come to faith in Christ, yet.
No
What school master have you known? By what works have I done that show you I love not by faith? I know the law is good for correction, reproof, and instruction in righteousness. How has it come to you? That way of Faith that discouraged obedience to the Father's instructions?
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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No
What school master have you known? By what works have I done that show you I love not by faith? I know the law is good for correction, reproof, and instruction in righteousness. How has it come to you? That way of Faith that discouraged obedience to the Father's instructions?
the Father put all authority in the hands of the Son. the Father, on the mount of transfiguration , said " this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. hear Him " Jesus said " all authority has been given to Me".

we are to obey the Son, the words in red. the Mosaic Law was given to Israel only. Jesus's words are for the whole world.
 

posthuman

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Doesn't it also say of Abraham, "because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”Gen. 26:5
yes...

Genesis 26:4-5
I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.

it says God blessed him with numerous offspring and that through him others would be blessed because of his obedience. it does not say he was declared righteous by it. he had already been declared righteous by his faith.
let's not attempt to make this something it is not by selectively omitting context
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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yes...

Genesis 26:4-5
I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.

it says God blessed him with numerous offspring and that through him others would be blessed because of his obedience. it does not say he was declared righteous by it. he had already even declared righteous by his faith.
Amen! Genesis 15:5 - Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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yes...

Genesis 26:4-5
I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.

it says God blessed him with numerous offspring and that through him others would be blessed because of his obedience. it does not say he was declared righteous by it. he had already been declared righteous by his faith.
let's not attempt to make this something it is not by selectively omitting context
Yes Post, Let's not omit scriptures which show the reason why Abraham was Loved by God.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

What if Abram had done as Eve did? What if Abram had said "God's instructions to leave my way of life is burdensome, unjust". Shall I leave my family? Shall I not eat of any tree that looks good in my sight?

No Lord, I want your blessing, but I don't want your instructions.

In your religion, would he had still been considered righteous if He had rebelled against God's instructions as did Eve?
 

posthuman

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Amen! Genesis 15:5 - Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
how much more clear does it need to be lol

some people like to pretend this book doesn't exist; seeing how many false doctrines are so readily destroyed by it one can see why.
 

posthuman

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In your religion, would he had still been considered righteous if He had rebelled against God's instructions as did Eve?
1 Corinthians 6:10
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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1 Corinthians 6:10

nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Well yes, I guess this would be a good answer to the question I posed to you.

What if Abram had done as Eve did? What if Abram had said "God's instructions to leave my way of life is burdensome, unjust". Shall I leave my family? Shall I not eat of any tree that looks good in my sight?

No Lord, I want your blessing, but I don't want your instructions.

In your religion, would he had still been considered righteous if He had rebelled against God's instructions as did Eve?
So in your religion, if Abraham had done as Eve did, he would have been considered a thief, greedy, drunkard, slanderer, swindler, and He wouldn't have been blessed by God to inherit His Kingdom.

Well that's kind of harsh to think of Eve that way, but It does say if you break one, you break them all.
 

JohnTalmid

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the Father put all authority in the hands of the Son. the Father, on the mount of transfiguration , said " this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. hear Him " Jesus said " all authority has been given to Me".

we are to obey the Son, the words in red. the Mosaic Law was given to Israel only. Jesus's words are for the whole world.
Mosaic law?
Moses attempted to make deciples who obeyed the Father just as Messiah... The mosaic covenant with Israel was for a promised one a "Holy One" to come that is like Moses. He came obeyed all the instruction of Elohim and did all that righteousness requires. Because he did so should we.
Your argument that the "old testament" shouldn't apply to us because we have a "new covenant" doesn't hold water.
What has been made new that the covenant of our fathers could not do is renew the heart of man to obey the Father's instructions.
If you want to reject the power of the Word of Elohim to make a person Holy I'm not going to be party to that.
Y'all who have been saying, "the work of the law is a curse". Have forgotten about Messiah and the words he shared. "there is no longer any condemnation". What condemns y'all is sin, not the law. The Law is a school master for those who have ears to hear. If you want to understand the command of the Father you must obey the commandment.
If you have not understood it is because your heart has yet to be circumcised. Outwardly religion has perfected a fake mask of holiness and caused many to follow a false messiah. Inwardly like ravenous wolves they don't fear Elohim to evaluate themselves and forget about the covenants, and promises given for our edification/benefit.
I don't reject his truth so I can not reject the instruction. If we say we know Elohim yet keep not the commands we are liars and we do not know either the Father or His Son.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Truly.

1 Corinthians 15:20-24
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

24 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

1 Corinthians 15:38-42
38 But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

39 Not all flesh is the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another. 41 The sun (1) has one degree of splendor, the moon (2) another, and the stars (3) another; and star (4) differs from star in splendor. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead:

Revelation 11:
1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months.

----

Every believer is a living stone in the house of Yah (1 Peter 2:5), and He is building his house according to the exact pattern laid out for Moses, with every stone being prepared for its proper place. There's a courtyard, holy place and then a Most Holy place. This is why no temple is seen in New Jerusalem in Revelation when it descends from heaven, because Yah's temple is his people. This is also why no sun is needed in the holy city, because the glory of Yah will radiate from His throne.

But as Moses and Elijah shone with glory when speaking with Christ at the Mount of Transfiguration vision, so will one's splendor be determined by how close or how far they are from the throne of the Almighty; i.e. how close one walks with the lamb.


1) "The First-fruits" (barley) unto Yah and his Christ (Revelation 7:4 & 14:4)
first
7:4 - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

14:4 - These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the first-fruits unto God and to the Lamb.


2) "The Wheat" into Christ's barn (Matthew 13:30 & Revelation 14:14-16)
Matt 13:30 - Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

----

Matthew 20:23
23“You will indeed drink My cup,” Jesus said. “But to sit at My right or left is not Mine to grant. These seats (on my throne) belong to those for whom My Father has prepared them

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Daniel 12:3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

----

Agreed, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ; no grapes (of wrath) harvest for any believer. Amen. But of the believers, some will be rulers with Christ as a reward...and some will just barely make it into the kingdom, as though plucked from the fire.
Well, if it's a matter of rewards only visible in heaven then I guess I'll just wait and see which Bible interpretation is correct.

To me it's obvious at this time that rewards after death are based on things like did you visit Jesus when he was in prison or homeless on the street.

As far as keeping the law and the prophets, Jesus explained that as treating other people like you want to be treated.
 

Dan_473

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I think it is wise to start at the beginning of Romans as opposed to just jumping on a scripture in the middle of His Letter that seems to support modern religious traditions.

What did the Jews do to get so messed up?

Rom. 1:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We know Jesus also explained what their downfall was.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and again:

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

We know the Jews were pushing their version of the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

The Jews were preaching that unless the Gentiles followed their religion, they couldn't be saved. We know they did the Tithing, and the Priesthood duties Moses commanded, but not the "weightier matter of the Law", like showing Mercy to people, and Using God's Judgment, and trusting in God which is the command of Faith.

In romans 2 Paul is explaining the perfection and judgment of God.

Rom. 2:
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

The Jews had rejected God's instructions and had created their own as Jesus said. This is Evil, not Good. Because as the Law and Prophets teaches from the beginning to the end:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This is the Same thing Jesus said over and over and over, both as the Word, and as the Man Jesus.

But the Pharisees were still sticking to their version of the Law of Moses for justification of sin.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

In Romans 3 Paul is continuing his conversation about them that started in Romans 1.


1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

So what if some didn't believe in Mercy, Just Judgment, Faith, all parts of God's Law? Shall their unbelief make these void?

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? ( tithing, animal sacrifice, the sprinkling of Blood) Nay: but by the law of faith. ( "Mercy, Judgment, Faith, that they had omitted.) Jesus said they should have "DONE" these and not let the others undone.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Remember, Jesus forgave sins "Without the Deeds of the Law" having not killed even one goat, or sprinkled even one drop of blood for 3 years. But He did walk in Mercy, Faith and Judgment of His Father. This "Change" this "New Covenant" was promised in Jer. 3.

Therefore, Paul is not saying man is not justified by obedience to the Law of Faith which is "mercy" (Love your neighbor) Judgment ( I am God, you are not) and Faith ( "Deny our self, take up our cross and follow the invisible Him)

He is saying the Jews were not justified by the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" added 430 years after Abraham. (Levi wasn't even born yet)

This is why Paul can say: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God."

sorry for the long post. Please examine it closely and let me know where I am in error if you think I am.
based on the context I think Romans 1:21 is talking about everyone, Jews and gentiles. if you really stretch the word Jew, you can say that Abraham was the first Jew. though, I think that would be a real stretch.
but Paul goes back to the creation of the world here. He's talking about people starting with Adam and all of Adam's descendants.
so I think it's talking about everyone, people in general.


God shows his anger from heaven. It is against all the godless and evil things people do. They are so evil that they say no to the truth. 19 The truth about God is plain to them. God has made it plain. 20 Ever since the world was created it has been possible to see the qualities of God that are not seen. I’m talking about his eternal power and about the fact that he is God. Those things can be seen in what he has made. So people have no excuse for what they do.

21 They knew God. But they didn’t honor him as God. They didn’t thank him. Their thinking became worthless. Their foolish hearts became dark.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1&version=NIRV

now, since I think you're understanding of Romans 1: 21 is faulty, wouldn't it be much more efficient for us to resolve that issue before moving on to the rest of your post? since the rest of your post is built upon the foundation you lay at the beginning?
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Have forgotten about Messiah and the words he shared. "there is no longer any condemnation".
that would be what Paul wrote as the logical conclusion to a systematic theology he spent chapters 1-7 of Romans laying out, and continued through ch. 13.
you don't get Romans 8:1 without Romans 7. without that we are through the cross no longer under the Law, there is still condemnation.

read your textbook :)
 

posthuman

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13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
yeah don't stop there. have a look at v. 20 for example.
you need to read the whole thing, not just ch. 2
 

JohnTalmid

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Mar 17, 2017
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that would be what Paul wrote as the logical conclusion to a systematic theology he spent chapters 1-7 of Romans laying out, and continued through ch. 13.
you don't get Romans 8:1 without Romans 7. without that we are through the cross no longer under the Law, there is still condemnation.

read your textbook :)
I am not sure the point you're trying to reach..

Paul with his mind served the Law of God. With his flesh he served the Law of sin and death. Now by way of the Father we have been set free from the Law of sin and death through His son.
We no longer serve the Law of the letter through various dogma of men. We serve in the newness of the Spirit. We who know the law also know that the law is of the Spirit. We received faith so that we may become faithful. The faithfulness of Messiah was to bring righteousness close to the son's of man. Now that we have been brought near enough to grab hold of the perfect instruction you would have us all reject it? No because their are two laws to this day. The Law of sin and death that those who say they are not under are subject to and the law of the Spirit that those who heard do without condemnation.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Remembering the Sabbath to keep it Holy was not a duty or "Deed" of the Priesthood for the remission of sins.

In other Words, there isn't a command that says "if you sin, go and remember to keep God's Holy Sabbath Holy" , and your sins will be cleansed. or "if you sin, go and Steal no more" and your sins will be cleansed, or "if you sin, go and don't create an image of God in the likeness of man and your sins will be forgiven..

But there were Laws, "added" 430 years after Abraham obeyed, that said "If you sin, find a Levite Priest and give him the best of your goats, and he will kill it and sprinkle it's blood on the alter to cleanse your sins from you.

Since we know the Mainstream Preachers of his time were not following "Mercy, Judgment, or faith, but were following Tithing, Priesthood Duties and Circumcision. I make sense that Paul would say to them:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And again.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by (the Law of) faith without the deeds of the law.(of works)
keeping the Sabbath holy is not a work of the law done for the remission of sins, that's correct. it is, however, a work of the law. It would be one of the things that Paul refers to as the Deeds of the law in Romans chapter 3 the King James version.

the problem that I see with rendering Romans 3:28 the way you did is that it doesn't fit the context of verse 20 just a few verses earlier in the chapter.

20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3&version=NLT