Sabbath

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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that's a lie.

it was in fact my whole point - that David received grace, Nathan saying his sins were removed.
David did evil in the sight of the Lord, and the law (which David was under) provides no mercy whatsoever for the sin he committed: the law requires him to be physically put to death.
the law therefore was set aside in the grace of God in this case. that was how this began, because studydude had said there was nothing in the OT presaging the setting aside of the law. i brought up the subject of the wickedness of David in this matter and the removal of his sin because this exactly the thing dude had said doesn't exist, and moreover because this is a figure of the work of Christ - for his sin was not covered by blood, as in the sacrifice of the law ((tho in the law there is no sacrifice for these sins)), but his sin was taken away. thus is only possible if God had set the law aside in His mercy toward David, and nothing satisfies the demand of His holy justice in this matter but the work of Jesus Himself.

grace, mercy, the Lord Jesus the Christ

but dude would have none of it. he saw only confusion and hatred, lied about me and falsely accused me, hating me and the testimony of the Crucified Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world - as he now continues to do.

i forgive him though he does not repent. i think he has no idea what he is saying and doing; he thinks he does right.
Wow, I never thought about that. The law says that David was to be stoned.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Wow, I never thought about that. The law says that David was to be stoned.
if it was adultery, both he and Bathsheba were to be stoned to death. if it was rape, David was to have been stoned to death but Bathsheba would be innocent. the Bible never accuses her of sin, though i am aware that many commentators and preachers speak of her as though she wickedly seduced David. personally i think David had been watching her on more than one day - the text says she finished her purification, probably a reference to menstruation - did David luckily pick the right time to commit adultery or plan it?

either way, the law required David to physically be killed, and there is no sacrifice in the law to atone for him.
his life was not spared by the law but by the setting aside of it. by someone who is able not only to make atonement ((literally "covering")) but to remove sin. Who do we know that does such a thing?
:)
Jesus, that's Who.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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actually , right at the end of page 59, then into 60.

and, you are right, you brought up David's sin to studyman, he responded.

so, will the mighty studyman admit his lie?
thanks for looking that up & correcting my estimate for me :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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According to the Word of God, David paid a steep price for his rebellion. I don't believe God wants me to add to his punishment by piling on, or by using him as an excuse for sin.

2 SAm. 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
you say David paid the price, but the very scripture you quote contradicts you.

it is the son who died.

by the Law David was to be physically put to death. he was not. so you're quite wrong in what you say.

you will say, he was spiritually dead so that the law was fulfilled. but this is both disengenuous because the law is quite clear that physical death is the punishment, and it is also hypocrisy because you will not accept that the sabbath rest is spiritually fulfilled and observed, commanding gentile believers to physically observe it under threat of the condemnation of the law.

and no one uses this as an excuse to sin. that is pure slanderous implication on your part. i used it as occasion to glorify the work of the Messiah, and you use my glorying as occasion to lie about me.

and someone gives you medals for lying and contradicting scriptures? what shame!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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A rehearsal.

That is exactly what it is.

But it was a rehearsal for ancient Israel to recognize their Messiah. Their King. Salvation.

But all that rehearsal didn't help them.

Just like rehearsal doesn't really help anyone now. Especially since the Lord Jesus Christ already gives us Rest from our work at our own Righteousness.
Now Grandpa, you are omitting a very important truth. The Wise men, Anna, Simeon, Zechariahs, They all knew the Christ when He came. Are you denying this Biblical Truth?

And what was the one difference blaring difference between Zechariahs who knew Jesus when He came, and the Pharisees, that didn't know Jesus when He came?

Let me help, it's really really simple.

The Word of God says this about the "Pharisees"

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

This same Word of this same God said this about Zechariahs;

Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Had the Priesthood followed the instructions God gave them like Zechariahs did, there would be no need for a "changed" Priesthood. The Levites would have been waiting for the Christ and would have embraced Him as did Zechariahs.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Post said:

Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die."
(2 Samuel 12:13)

what justice does the Law command be carried out upon a rapist / murderer / liar ?
why was the Law completely ignored here?
This conversation started with you making this statement.

The Law of God was not ignored, but followed just as God instructed. I showed this truth the first time but as is your custom, you ignored it.

Lev. 26:
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

36 And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.

This is just as much a part of God"s Law as "thou shall not kill".

Lev. 26:
39 And they that are left of you (David) shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

So hundreds of years later, God's people have been scattered among the nations just like my God said.

Then what happened Post? David transgressed against God.


13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

I mentioned the Biblical Fact that God punished David, as the Law describes in Lev. 26. But you preach David didn't pay the price, his infant son did. Implying again, as you do so often, that the God of the Bible is an unjust God.

don't lie, dude.
liars do not enter the kingdom.

the son of the adulterous rape paid the price, not David.
and that is not what the Law commands.
But if one turns from the preaching of Post, and towards the Word which became Flesh, we, once again, find a different teaching.

10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house;(Not his infant sons house) because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee (David, not his son as you preach) out of thine own house, and I will take thy (Davids, not his infant son) wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Obviously you are not a father, so you don't know the loss of his son would be the greatest punishment.

So far you peach the Pharisees were trying to follow God's Commandments, but the Christ Word's expose this as a deception.

You preach Jesus "Removed" His fathers Commandments, but the same Christ said that these same commandments would be here as long as heaven and earth are here.

And now you preach David didn't pay a price for his sins, which is also a false teaching according to the Lord of the Sabbath.

Really Post, you should think more about your actions, your words, your religion and worry less about David's rape, or God's hypocrisy,

My issue with you has always been about what you preach to others and how it differs from what God really teaches IMO.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I find this whole idea of whether David raped or committed adultery with Bathsheba fascinating. Also the question of what ought to have been done according to the law.

If it was adultery, with Bathsheba consenting, then the punishment is stoning from what I read.

But regarding the rape of married women, I can't find anything in the law. I can find things about the rape of virgins. Does anyone know if there's something in the law about the rape of married women?
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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Wow, I never thought about that. The law says that David was to be stoned.
You would be incorrect.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

We do not even find 1 witness. What King David and Bathsheba did was in secret.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
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that's a lie.

it was in fact my whole point - that David received grace, Nathan saying his sins were removed.
David did evil in the sight of the Lord, and the law (which David was under) provides no mercy whatsoever for the sin he committed: the law requires him to be physically put to death.
the law therefore was set aside in the grace of God in this case. that was how this began, because studydude had said there was nothing in the OT presaging the setting aside of the law. i brought up the subject of the wickedness of David in this matter and the removal of his sin because this exactly the thing dude had said doesn't exist, and moreover because this is a figure of the work of Christ - for his sin was not covered by blood, as in the sacrifice of the law ((tho in the law there is no sacrifice for these sins)), but his sin was taken away. thus is only possible if God had set the law aside in His mercy toward David, and nothing satisfies the demand of His holy justice in this matter but the work of Jesus Himself.

grace, mercy, the Lord Jesus the Christ

but dude would have none of it. he saw only confusion and hatred, lied about me and falsely accused me, hating me and the testimony of the Crucified Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world - as he now continues to do.

i forgive him though he does not repent. i think he has no idea what he is saying and doing; he thinks he does right.
Who were the 2 or more witnesses again? I'm having a comprehension problem here, tell me again who were the witnesses to this adultery the law demands?:unsure:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Who were the 2 or more witnesses again? I'm having a comprehension problem here, tell me again who were the witnesses to this adultery the law demands?:unsure:
the death of Samuel takes place in the end of I Samuel, so of course he cannot be the author of II Samuel. Jewish tradition is that the prophets Nathan and Gad wrote what we call II Samuel ((see 1 Chronicles 29:29)).

do you not believe the Bible is accurate, K?

2 Samuel 11:3 David sends a messenger to get Bathsheba's name.
v.4 he sends more messengers to get her and bring her to him.
v.5 she sends another messenger to tell David she's pregnant.
Uriah her husband has been away at war all this time.


that's at least four people ((probably more)) being sent back and forth, who know what has happened.
and how many of her neighbors? and how many members of the king's household?

2 Samuel 12:1, the LORD sends Nathan to David. Nathan knows what's happened.
that's 2 more witnesses, and one of them is God Almighty.


are you able to tell us the Biblical account is wrong, K?



 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Also, I'm curious....are your riderless winged horses of a Pegasus theme? and the fairy ladies? Are those supposed to be angels? Because the descriptions I've read of angels from scripture are anything but sensual Barbie doll looking creatures. Just sayin....
Are you serious? whats wrong with you?

I doubt Magenta is sitting there thinking "This is exactly what these heavenly creatures look like".

Magenta I like the pictures you post, great talent, beautiful designs.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Are you serious? whats wrong with you?

I doubt Magenta is sitting there thinking "This is exactly what these heavenly creatures look like".

Magenta I like the pictures you post, great talent, beautiful designs.
if you can't criticize an argument attack the person's avatar i guess.
or slander their character.
or lie about what they've said.
or rewrite the Bible.
or pretend the argument was never made.

they travel far and wide to make one proselyte, and they make that person twice the son or daughter of hell they are. *sigh*
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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the death of Samuel takes place in the end of I Samuel, so of course he cannot be the author of II Samuel. Jewish tradition is that the prophets Nathan and Gad wrote what we call II Samuel ((see 1 Chronicles 29:29)).

do you not believe the Bible is accurate, K?

2 Samuel 11:3 David sends a messenger to get Bathsheba's name.
v.4 he sends more messengers to get her and bring her to him.
v.5 she sends another messenger to tell David she's pregnant.
Uriah her husband has been away at war all this time.


that's at least four people ((probably more)) being sent back and forth, who know what has happened.
and how many of her neighbors? and how many members of the king's household?


2 Samuel 12:1, the LORD sends Nathan to David. Nathan knows what's happened.
that's 2 more witnesses, and one of them is God Almighty.


are you able to tell us the Biblical account is wrong, K?
Still no dice. They did not come forth and accuse. Even by man's law in America today, no witnesses come forth no case, end of story.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
478
83
Are you serious? whats wrong with you?

I doubt Magenta is sitting there thinking "This is exactly what these heavenly creatures look like".

Magenta I like the pictures you post, great talent, beautiful designs.
I appreciate good art, however my point was not going beyond what scripture has said, something she has done insistently with others when it suits her purposes.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,028
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Still no dice. They did not come forth and accuse. Even by man's law in America today, no witnesses come forth no case, end of story.
still waiting on you to produce a N.T. verse that commands Christ followers to keep the jewish Sabbath.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,636
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I appreciate good art, however my point was not going beyond what scripture has said, something she has done insistently with others when it suits her purposes.
so why do you reject the witness of the scripture with regard to David's sin, going beyond what God Himself says about what happened?

what purpose of yours does it suit to reject the Bible in this matter?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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But you preach David didn't pay the price, his infant son did. Implying again, as you do so often, that the God of the Bible is an unjust God.
this is a picture of Jesus Christ, the Son, who died in your place, paying the just price of your sin for you.

i am proclaiming the glory of God who removes sin, but you are calling it confusion and lies.

bravo??

your spiteful rejection is implying that God is unjust to send His own Son to die in your place is it not?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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the death of Samuel takes place in the end of I Samuel, so of course he cannot be the author of II Samuel. Jewish tradition is that the prophets Nathan and Gad wrote what we call II Samuel ((see 1 Chronicles 29:29)).

do you not believe the Bible is accurate, K?

2 Samuel 11:3 David sends a messenger to get Bathsheba's name.
v.4 he sends more messengers to get her and bring her to him.
v.5 she sends another messenger to tell David she's pregnant.
Uriah her husband has been away at war all this time.


that's at least four people ((probably more)) being sent back and forth, who know what has happened.
and how many of her neighbors? and how many members of the king's household?


2 Samuel 12:1, the LORD sends Nathan to David. Nathan knows what's happened.
that's 2 more witnesses, and one of them is God Almighty.


are you able to tell us the Biblical account is wrong, K?
Duet. 17:
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Witness = (Hebrew) "ayd" "testimony, record, from the root of "ood" to duplicate, protest, testify, to admonish, charge, testimony, record.

First, a witness is an "accuser". In this context a witness is someone who comes forward with a claim. For instance You call David a "liar, Rapist, and murderer", but your witness is not enough alone for God to stone David to death. There would have to be others that came forward to substantiate your "witness". In David's case, God's Son, the Word which became Flesh, already came forward and "Testified" about David, "your sin has been put away". So your witness of Him goes against the witness of the Word which became Flesh. At any rate, as it turns out, David is not a murderer, rapist or liar at all as you preach. He is just a man like you and I and that got carried away with his lust. God had this written so we could learn from David's mistake, not so we could accuse God of showing favors or being unjust or ignoring His own Law as you preach.

In David's time there were no witnesses against David.

And God had already judged him, and forgave him by the time Nathan had even been sent because God knew David, once his sin was shown to him, would repent in sackcloth and ashes and would continue to serve his God even in grief and humiliation. I find it extremely sad that you are not able to grasp the truth about the Great merciful God of Abraham, and the humility of his humble servant David.

The Bible account is right Post, but if a man reject's or ignores much of it, then how can that man know?

Karraster is right about the witnesses, there were none against David. Nathan wasn't even speaking his own words, rather, was relaying what God sent him to David to say.

You preach that David didn't pay for his sin, that only his infant son did. The Biblical account exposes this as false as well.

"are you able to tell us the Biblical account is wrong"
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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In David's time there were no witnesses against David.
read chapter 2 and ask yourself what Nathan is doing, why he is sent to David.

they conceived an illegitimate child together, and you and your disciple K think they never slept together?

pretty pathetic.