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SUNDOWNSAM

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The New Covenant is with the Children of God.

Galatians 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 9:23-29
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
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The New Covenant was with the house of Israel and the house of Jacob and God through the mouth of Jeremiah spoke this and in the AD books it is confirmed. Unless you believe in replacement theology.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
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What I stated about the NIV I new this for the longest and many others did.

Regarding the Scripture on Israel, I quoted books and verses all you have to do is go back and read, and even if I didn't quote books and verses you should know the Scriptures. Yeshua did not even give verses he only said, it is written, would you be asking him to provide you with evidence? It is up to you to prove a person wrong if you disagree.
I provided you the Hebrew word straight from that scripture and it's meaning.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Firstly, you introduced the term, "broke" in regard to the covenant.

Secondly, the NIV is far from alone in using "broken" at Jeremiah 11:10. It's just what I happened to use at the time.

Thirdly, your ad hominem remarks are fallacious. I don't care what you think about me, nor does anyone else reading this thread; it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Fourthly, your broadbrushing ("you people", etc.) is simply ridiculous. I think for myself. Don't you?

Fifthy, your opinions regarding the NIV are secondary to this topic. Start a different thread if you like; I'm not discussing them here.
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First... I was not the one that introduced broke and if I did then show me.

Second... You are correct that in Jeremiah it uses the word broken, but I provide the meaning in Hebrew.

Thirdly... hominem? Please elaborate. Also, I do not think negative about you, I am just disagreeing with out.

Fourthly, I met a person who disagreed with me on some issues and all I told him was to weigh what I told him fairly according to the Scriptures and he agreed that the Scriptures was right. Not to mention, I learned from him. The problem is that there are too many chiefs and few Indians.

I made the statement about the NIV because you quoted from it and I am sure you know it.

Again, I have nothing against you and I weigh everything you post fairly and if I disagree that does not change you from being a brother in Yeshua, and it is okay to disagree as long as we know that Salvation is a gift of God, saved by grace and justified through faith apart from the law or the works of the law.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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I provided you the Hebrew word straight from that scripture and it's meaning.
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If you are talking about the NIV, then if someone quotes you a true statement from a JW's bible does that mean one should highly recommend the JW's distorted bible?

A good English translation would be the American Standard or the Holman Christian Standard bible, then that is my opinion.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
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If you are talking about the NIV, then if someone quotes you a true statement from a JW's bible does that mean one should highly recommend the JW's distorted bible?

A good English translation would be the American Standard or the Holman Christian Standard bible, then that is my opinion.
As far as I know the NIV isn't written in Hebrew. It's in English. I provided the Hebrew words from the Hebrew text.
I use the American Standard version myself.
But what I gave was from the Hebrew text from logos Bible.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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As far as I know the NIV isn't written in Hebrew. It's in English. I provided the Hebrew words from the Hebrew text.
As far as I know the NIV isn't written in Hebrew. It's in English. I provided the Hebrew words from the Hebrew text.
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I never said the the NIV was written in Hebrew.

I must have missed it, what Hebrew word and in what context?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
I. [פָּרַר] vb. Hiph. break, frustrate — 1. break, violate, esp. c. acc. בְּרִית: a. of ˊי‍. b. of men violating covenant with ˊי‍. c. of men breaking compact league (with men). d. of destroying the אַחֲוָה between Judah and Israel. e. of breaking ˊי‍’s מִצְוָה. 2. frustrate, make ineffectual: a. counsel (עֵצָה); ˊי‍ subj.; of man frustrating ˊי‍’s counsel, so, c. acc. מִשְׁפָּט; c. acc. מַחֲשָׁבוֹת in gen., of men, ˊי‍ subj., so, c. acc. אֹתוֹת. b. make vow (נֶדֶר) ineffectual, annul it (opp. הֵקִים). c. of annulling (godly) fear. Hoph. 1. be frustrated. 2. be broken, of covenant. Pilp. shatter

פָּרַר pârar, paw-rar´; a prim. root; to break up (usually fig., i.e. to violate, frustrate):—× any ways, break (asunder), cast off, cause to cease, × clean, defeat, disannul, disappoint, dissolve, divide, make of none effect, fail, frustrate, bring (come) to nought, × utterly, make void

I don't know how broken can possibly be wrong.
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I never said the the NIV was written in Hebrew.

I must have missed it, what Hebrew word and in what context?
This is the disputed word from Jeremiah 11:10
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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If you are talking about the NIV, then if someone quotes you a true statement from a JW's bible does that mean one should highly recommend the JW's distorted bible?
Your comparison is silly. The NIV was translated by Christians; the JW's New World Translation was not.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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The day of atonement was judgement, where did you get that from?

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About the NIV... I don't need provide you proof, why don't you do a such on you own and you will see the truth of the NIV.

On the others, I explained it all in a previous post, maybe you should go back and read.

Zechariah 3:1Then the angel showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, with Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2And the LORD said to Satan: “The LORD rebukes you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you! Is not this man a firebrand snatched from the fire?

Just as these verses from Zechariah shows satan accusing Joshua of not being righteous - Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood on our behalf saying the price of our sin has been paid for and satan stands there accusing each of us and Jesus says no my blood cover them as I died for them and they have accepted me.

If that is not the work of going over who should be saved and who should not I don't know what else you could call it but a work of satan trying to pass a damning judgement on those who have been saved. The Hebrew verses below explains that Jesus as our high priest is advocating his blood on our behalf doing the work of the high priest on the day of atonement. Which was a big day each year in the sanctuary service.

Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood sacrifice for all of us who are saved not just Jews.

A Primary Passage
Hebrews 10:11-18 states:

And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Where the priests had to continually make sacrifices in order to atone for their own sins and for the sins of the people, Jesus “offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins.” This perfect sacrifice has permanently satisfied divine justice and has reconciled our relationship with a holy God.

Just as the sacrificial system was set up to atone for sin in ages past, God in His infinite mercy and love for His creation, has provided both a perfect High Priest and perfect sacrifice that was able to once and for all atone for the consequences of sin.

We were dead in our sins and trespasses, unable to restore our relationship with God. The sacrificial system was a never-ending process which was but a shadow of the ultimate atonement that took place on the cross.

It was here that “he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God” (Hebrews 9:12-14).
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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This is the disputed word from Jeremiah 11:10
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As you can see from the definition, breaking the covenant has to do with violating God's commandments, another way of putting it, the breaking of the covenant has to do with violating God's laws and not an act of bringing God's laws to an end as some will claim. A marriage ending in a divorce the law is still in effect unless one spouse dies and if the living spouse remarries the law still takes affect.

Today, I woke up and I was discussing the Ark of the Covenant with my brother and afterwards, I was enlighten with a truth of the Ark of the covenant which I am sure you know but maybe what I will write you be able to weigh it truthfully and fairly. Let me write it and I will send it directly your you via this message board.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Your comparison is silly. The NIV was translated by Christians; the JW's New World Translation was not.
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You call it silly, but I am referring to the statement you made.

Dino, continue with your NIV, but if you really study the Scriptures you should stay away from that so-called translation and I also recommend not using the NIV, but that is your choice. All I ask, if you refute what I write do not try to substantiate it with the NIV because I would not buy it, in other words, not only does the NIV have a lot of errors, but they interpret a lot of verses to support their views and beliefs, exactly what the JW's did, their bible is not a translation it is their interpretation which is why they are all distorted in their views, not to mention, they are a false doctrine. I will not say that you are indulging in a false doctrine because we are talking on a theology issue and we are not denying deity and we agree that Salvation is the gift of God, nothing to do with the law, neither does the law justifies a man.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Dec 2, 2019
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Zechariah 3:1Then the angel showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, with Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2And the LORD said to Satan: “The LORD rebukes you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you! Is not this man a firebrand snatched from the fire?

Just as these verses from Zechariah shows satan accusing Joshua of not being righteous - Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood on our behalf saying the price of our sin has been paid for and satan stands there accusing each of us and Jesus says no my blood cover them as I died for them and they have accepted me.

If that is not the work of going over who should be saved and who should not I don't know what else you could call it but a work of satan trying to pass a damning judgement on those who have been saved. The Hebrew verses below explains that Jesus as our high priest is advocating his blood on our behalf doing the work of the high priest on the day of atonement. Which was a big day each year in the sanctuary service.

Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood sacrifice for all of us who are saved not just Jews.

A Primary Passage
Hebrews 10:11-18 states:

And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Where the priests had to continually make sacrifices in order to atone for their own sins and for the sins of the people, Jesus “offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins.” This perfect sacrifice has permanently satisfied divine justice and has reconciled our relationship with a holy God.

Just as the sacrificial system was set up to atone for sin in ages past, God in His infinite mercy and love for His creation, has provided both a perfect High Priest and perfect sacrifice that was able to once and for all atone for the consequences of sin.

We were dead in our sins and trespasses, unable to restore our relationship with God. The sacrificial system was a never-ending process which was but a shadow of the ultimate atonement that took place on the cross.

It was here that “he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God” (Hebrews 9:12-14).
___________________

Correction, should read, I don't need to provide you proof, why don't you do a search on your own. I type fast thinking ahead, need to slow down in my typing.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
-------------

As you can see from the definition, breaking the covenant has to do with violating God's commandments, another way of putting it, the breaking of the covenant has to do with violating God's laws and not an act of bringing God's laws to an end as some will claim. A marriage ending in a divorce the law is still in effect unless one spouse dies and if the living spouse remarries the law still takes affect.

Today, I woke up and I was discussing the Ark of the Covenant with my brother and afterwards, I was enlighten with a truth of the Ark of the covenant which I am sure you know but maybe what I will write you be able to weigh it truthfully and fairly. Let me write it and I will send it directly your you via this message board.
I agree that they violated the law, in the same way that we would say a robber broke the law. It don't mean the law no longer exists, but that the covenant of the law was broken. So a robber loses his freedom because he broke the law. The societal covenant that protects liberty is broken, thus he loses liberty.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

Active member
Dec 2, 2019
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Zechariah 3:1Then the angel showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, with Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2And the LORD said to Satan: “The LORD rebukes you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you! Is not this man a firebrand snatched from the fire?

Just as these verses from Zechariah shows satan accusing Joshua of not being righteous - Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood on our behalf saying the price of our sin has been paid for and satan stands there accusing each of us and Jesus says no my blood cover them as I died for them and they have accepted me.

If that is not the work of going over who should be saved and who should not I don't know what else you could call it but a work of satan trying to pass a damning judgement on those who have been saved. The Hebrew verses below explains that Jesus as our high priest is advocating his blood on our behalf doing the work of the high priest on the day of atonement. Which was a big day each year in the sanctuary service.

Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood sacrifice for all of us who are saved not just Jews.

A Primary Passage
Hebrews 10:11-18 states:

And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Where the priests had to continually make sacrifices in order to atone for their own sins and for the sins of the people, Jesus “offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins.” This perfect sacrifice has permanently satisfied divine justice and has reconciled our relationship with a holy God.

Just as the sacrificial system was set up to atone for sin in ages past, God in His infinite mercy and love for His creation, has provided both a perfect High Priest and perfect sacrifice that was able to once and for all atone for the consequences of sin.

We were dead in our sins and trespasses, unable to restore our relationship with God. The sacrificial system was a never-ending process which was but a shadow of the ultimate atonement that took place on the cross.

It was here that “he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God” (Hebrews 9:12-14).
------------------------------------------

Correction, should read, I don't need to provide you proof, why don't you do a search on your own. I type fast thinking ahead, need to slow down in my typing.

First, why do you have to write a book, you could have stated what you posted in a paragraph.

You need to be careful in what you are stating because one can take your statement to mean that satan was foreshadowing what Yeshua was going to do, but Yeshua was going to do it differently and that would be considered heresy. I am not saying that was what you meant.

You stated... Jesus as our high priest is in heaven advocating his blood sacrifice for all of us who are saved not just Jews. Just remember that Salvation came to the Jews first. He advocates on our behalf when we come before him and confess.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

Active member
Dec 2, 2019
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I agree that they violated the law, in the same way that we would say a robber broke the law. It don't mean the law no longer exists, but that the covenant of the law was broken. So a robber loses his freedom because he broke the law. The societal covenant that protects liberty is broken, thus he loses liberty.
--------------


Just like Jews have scales over their eyes and can't see Messiah in Yeshua, many Christian brethren have scales over their eyes and cannot see this truth and that is because they have been impressed to see it one way instead of weighing the Scriptures passages fairly.

Let's talk about the Ark of the Covenant, it was a shadow of something to come. Prior to his coming, 3 things were in the Ark of the Covenant, the law (the word of God = Yeshua), the manna (bread of heaven= Yeshua) and the staff (shepherding = Yeshua). The lid/mercy seat was on top of it, the blood of a sacrifice was sprinkled on it to cover the sins of the people, but the law of God was not removed. Yeshua fulfilled Ark of the Covenant, though he took the curse of the law to the cross the law was not taken to the cross, he shed his blood (acceptable unto God once and for all), but the law was not removed.

Now, the new covenant was given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like it was given to their fathers. How was it given to their fathers? On tablets of stone. What makes it new? That it is now stored in the minds and written in the heart, meaning they were never replaced.

The commandments within us tells us what is sin and the Spirit of God brings them to remembrance when we sin against God and he brings us to repentance allowing us to be cleansed with the blood of Yeshua. The Ark of the Covenant was materialized in Yeshua without being altered.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
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Just like Jews have scales over their eyes and can't see Messiah in Yeshua, many Christian brethren have scales over their eyes and cannot see this truth and that is because they have been impressed to see it one way instead of weighing the Scriptures passages fairly.

Let's talk about the Ark of the Covenant, it was a shadow of something to come. Prior to his coming, 3 things were in the Ark of the Covenant, the law (the word of God = Yeshua), the manna (bread of heaven= Yeshua) and the staff (shepherding = Yeshua). The lid/mercy seat was on top of it, the blood of a sacrifice was sprinkled on it to cover the sins of the people, but the law of God was not removed. Yeshua fulfilled Ark of the Covenant, though he took the curse of the law to the cross the law was not taken to the cross, he shed his blood (acceptable unto God once and for all), but the law was not removed.

Now, the new covenant was given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like it was given to their fathers. How was it given to their fathers? On tablets of stone. What makes it new? That it is now stored in the minds and written in the heart, meaning they were never replaced.

The commandments within us tells us what is sin and the Spirit of God brings them to remembrance when we sin against God and he brings us to repentance allowing us to be cleansed with the blood of Yeshua. The Ark of the Covenant was materialized in Yeshua without being altered.
Good point about the ark of the covenant; where is it now?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,201
13,179
113
--------------
You call it silly, but I am referring to the statement you made.

Dino, continue with your NIV, but if you really study the Scriptures you should stay away from that so-called translation and I also recommend not using the NIV, but that is your choice. All I ask, if you refute what I write do not try to substantiate it with the NIV because I would not buy it, in other words, not only does the NIV have a lot of errors, but they interpret a lot of verses to support their views and beliefs, exactly what the JW's did, their bible is not a translation it is their interpretation which is why they are all distorted in their views, not to mention, they are a false doctrine. I will not say that you are indulging in a false doctrine because we are talking on a theology issue and we are not denying deity and we agree that Salvation is the gift of God, nothing to do with the law, neither does the law justifies a man.
Your assumptions and accusations are a reflection of the state of your heart. It's ugly in there.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Dino, there is no assumptions or accusations made toward you, not to mention, I also stated that I will not say that you are indulging in a false doctrine, but with your remark I will say that you appear to have a narcissistic disorder behavior and as stated before, you must me young. GROW UP!