Salvation = A Deliverance

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 8, 2018
2,226
244
63
#1
The scriptures references the word Salvation many times. Some scriptures reference the word as an eternal deliverance. Others reference the word as a deliverance we receive as we sojourn here on earth, which outnumbers the eternal application of the word many times over. This word "salvation" is taken out of context more than most words in the scriptures. Romans 10:1, 2, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to Israel is, that they might be saved (Delivered from their lack of knowledge) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God (evidence of being born again) , but not according to knowledge (of Jesus's finished work on the cross) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness ( the imputed righteousness of Christ by his death on the cross) And going about to establish their own righteousness (by their good works) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Matt 10:5,6, Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's born again children, that were lost to a lack of knowledge), of the house of Israel. God's called out preachers of his word, in this day and time, still have the same commission from God to preach to his elect people the good news of the gospel informing them that Jesus has already secured their eternal deliverance by his death on the cross and also to deliver the message in the scriptures as to how God wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on this earth.
 
Jul 18, 2017
8,926
2,730
113
#2
God's called out preachers of his word, in this day and time, still have the same commission from God to preach to his elect people the good news of the gospel informing them that Jesus has already secured their eternal deliverance...
You were doing fine until you substituted "his elect people" for THE WHOLE WORLD.

In fact you have contradicted God and Christ, and that is a very serious matter.

MATTHEW 24 -- ALL THE WORLD
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

MATTHEW 28 -- ALL NATIONS
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


MARK 16 -- ALL THE WORLD + EVERY CREATURE
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


ACTS 1 -- THE UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE EARTH
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Not even ONCE did Jesus say "to my elect people". That is because Christ died for the sins of the whole world. But your false gospel denies that.
 
Jul 8, 2018
2,226
244
63
#3
You were doing fine until you substituted "his elect people" for THE WHOLE WORLD.

In fact you have contradicted God and Christ, and that is a very serious matter.

MATTHEW 24 -- ALL THE WORLD
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

MATTHEW 28 -- ALL NATIONS
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


MARK 16 -- ALL THE WORLD + EVERY CREATURE
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


ACTS 1 -- THE UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE EARTH
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Not even ONCE did Jesus say "to my elect people". That is because Christ died for the sins of the whole world. But your false gospel denies that.
Why would Jesus tell them to preach to a world that cannot receive the Spirit of truth? John 14:17. John 15:18,19, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world,the world would love his own, but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Romans 10:18, But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into ALL THE EARTH, and their words unto the ENDS OF THE WORLD. The great commission commandment has already been fulfilled. Just as most of the children of God has misapplied the word "salvation", they have also misapplied the two different WORLDS. There is a world that hates God and there is the world of the elect that is not a part of the world that hates God. Why would God instruct us to preach to the natural man (world) who receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned? 1 Cor 2:14. Why would God tell us to preach to a world that is his enemy? James 4:4. Why would God tell us to love not the world (1 John 2:15) that he says he loves, John 3:16, if there are not actually two different worlds that he is talking about?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,360
6,757
113
64
Florida
#4
Why would Jesus tell them to preach to a world that cannot receive the Spirit of truth?
Yet, in fact that is what He commanded as stated in the verses supplied by Nehemiah. Perhaps Jesus wants to reach those that are lost. As Nehemiah pointed out there is a big difference between 'the whole world' and 'His elect people'. You can't simply change the wording of scripture just to suit your own personal narrative. I believe that's called twisting and wresting of scripture. It is not a good practice, ineffective, and morally wrong. I am sure that you had no intent to deceive but perhaps you should be more careful and to only post scripture how it is stated in the various translations and revisions.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
680
427
63
#5
You were doing fine until you substituted "his elect people" for THE WHOLE WORLD.

In fact you have contradicted God and Christ, and that is a very serious matter.

MATTHEW 24 -- ALL THE WORLD
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

MATTHEW 28 -- ALL NATIONS
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


MARK 16 -- ALL THE WORLD + EVERY CREATURE
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


ACTS 1 -- THE UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE EARTH
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Not even ONCE did Jesus say "to my elect people". That is because Christ died for the sins of the whole world. But your false gospel denies that.
you need to buy the calvinist dictionary.

uttermost parts of the earth = elect
all the world = elect
every creature = elect
all nations = elect


they say you preach to all, but only the elect respond.
my answer: if its predestinated i dont share gospel with anyone, no difference is made in amount of people saved. God chose it beforehand i dont care to participate im ok having less rewards.
i want to feel like i make a difference not waste time


ive heard many calvinist sermons debates and read articles. its the worst you can choose. arminians who believe you can lose salvation have more assurance of salvation than calvinists if they are willing to admit you can just never tell if you were deceived or erally elect saved.

i just dont know how anyone invented calvinism. its not in church history until augustine and even he think Jesus died for all. just confusing and hard for no reason to redefine so many verses like 1 john 2:2 thats why they have websites answering so many objections cause people see through regular country poeple like me.
 
Jul 8, 2018
2,226
244
63
#6
Yet, in fact that is what He commanded as stated in the verses supplied by Nehemiah. Perhaps Jesus wants to reach those that are lost. As Nehemiah pointed out there is a big difference between 'the whole world' and 'His elect people'. You can't simply change the wording of scripture just to suit your own personal narrative. I believe that's called twisting and wresting of scripture. It is not a good practice, ineffective, and morally wrong. I am sure that you had no intent to deceive but perhaps you should be more careful and to only post scripture how it is stated in the various translations and revisions.
If you would be so kind to tell me what word, or words, did I change from what the KJV states?
you need to buy the calvinist dictionary.

uttermost parts of the earth = elect
all the world = elect
every creature = elect
all nations = elect


they say you preach to all, but only the elect respond.
my answer: if its predestinated i dont share gospel with anyone, no difference is made in amount of people saved. God chose it beforehand i dont care to participate im ok having less rewards.
i want to feel like i make a difference not waste time


ive heard many calvinist sermons debates and read articles. its the worst you can choose. arminians who believe you can lose salvation have more assurance of salvation than calvinists if they are willing to admit you can just never tell if you were deceived or erally elect saved.

i just dont know how anyone invented calvinism. its not in church history until augustine and even he think Jesus died for all. just confusing and hard for no reason to redefine so many verses like 1 john 2:2 thats why they have websites answering so many objections cause people see through regular country poeple like me.
Do you deny that the scriptures talk about the elect. Matt 24:31 He will gather HIS ELECT from the four winds. I have never read the writings of John Calvin or any other writings of any mans interpretation of the scriptures to base my belief. The scriptures prove themselves and harmonize with each other.
 
Apr 15, 2017
1,989
304
83
#7
The scriptures references the word Salvation many times. Some scriptures reference the word as an eternal deliverance. Others reference the word as a deliverance we receive as we sojourn here on earth, which outnumbers the eternal application of the word many times over. This word "salvation" is taken out of context more than most words in the scriptures. Romans 10:1, 2, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to Israel is, that they might be saved (Delivered from their lack of knowledge) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God (evidence of being born again) , but not according to knowledge (of Jesus's finished work on the cross) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness ( the imputed righteousness of Christ by his death on the cross) And going about to establish their own righteousness (by their good works) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Matt 10:5,6, Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's born again children, that were lost to a lack of knowledge), of the house of Israel. God's called out preachers of his word, in this day and time, still have the same commission from God to preach to his elect people the good news of the gospel informing them that Jesus has already secured their eternal deliverance by his death on the cross and also to deliver the message in the scriptures as to how God wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on this earth.
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

This is speaking of the Jews, and Paul said that they might be saved, so they do not accept Jesus or the New Testament.

Which Jesus came unto His own, but His own did not receive Him.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

It is not speaking of born again Christians that are Jews, but Jews who are not saved but they have a zeal for God because they abide by the Old Testament.

Which Paul was one of them at one time that had a zeal for God for he went by the Old Testament, and said that he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees being more zealous of the traditions of his fathers.

Until Jesus got a hold of him and he turned to the truth.

The Bible says Israel is blinded in part, for they acknowledge the Old Testament for the most part but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved when Jesus comes back with the saints and saves the Jews from the world, and the kingdom on earth restored to them.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

They do not accept Christ but want to keep abiding in the Old Testament and the works of it for salvation.

Paul saying that he wants Israel to be saved means that he wants the nation to be saved where the majority rejected Christ.

I do not think it means born again Christians who are Jews, but it means that Paul wants the nation of Israel, all the Jews to be saved in which the majority rejected Christ.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Paul says this again wanting the nation of Israel to be saved, his kinsmen according to the flesh, for the promises were given to them and he does not like it that they reject it, and they are his people.
 
Jul 8, 2018
2,226
244
63
#8
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

This is speaking of the Jews, and Paul said that they might be saved, so they do not accept Jesus or the New Testament.

Which Jesus came unto His own, but His own did not receive Him.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

It is not speaking of born again Christians that are Jews, but Jews who are not saved but they have a zeal for God because they abide by the Old Testament.

Which Paul was one of them at one time that had a zeal for God for he went by the Old Testament, and said that he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees being more zealous of the traditions of his fathers.

Until Jesus got a hold of him and he turned to the truth.

The Bible says Israel is blinded in part, for they acknowledge the Old Testament for the most part but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved when Jesus comes back with the saints and saves the Jews from the world, and the kingdom on earth restored to them.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

They do not accept Christ but want to keep abiding in the Old Testament and the works of it for salvation.

Paul saying that he wants Israel to be saved means that he wants the nation to be saved where the majority rejected Christ.

I do not think it means born again Christians who are Jews, but it means that Paul wants the nation of Israel, all the Jews to be saved in which the majority rejected Christ.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Paul says this again wanting the nation of Israel to be saved, his kinsmen according to the flesh, for the promises were given to them and he does not like it that they reject it, and they are his people.
Not all Israel is of Israel. You do know that God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel, don't you. (Gen 35:10). Matt 22:32, God is not the God of the dead (in Christ) , but of the living (Those who have been born again in Christ.) Luke 1:33, And he shall reign (not over the nation of Israel) over the house of Jacob (who God changed his name to Israel) for ever, and of his Kingdom there shall be no end.
 
Jul 8, 2018
2,226
244
63
#9
Yet, in fact that is what He commanded as stated in the verses supplied by Nehemiah. Perhaps Jesus wants to reach those that are lost. As Nehemiah pointed out there is a big difference between 'the whole world' and 'His elect people'. You can't simply change the wording of scripture just to suit your own personal narrative. I believe that's called twisting and wresting of scripture. It is not a good practice, ineffective, and morally wrong. I am sure that you had no intent to deceive but perhaps you should be more careful and to only post scripture how it is stated in the various translations and revisions.
So, how you interpret John 14:17? The only thing that the scriptures in Nehemiah is talking about is the world that God created. There is no pointing out differences in the world that God created, and the world of his elect. There is a difference in the two worlds, but that is not what God points out in Nehemiah.
 
Mar 13, 2014
28,360
6,757
113
64
Florida
#10
So, how you interpret John 14:17? The only thing that the scriptures in Nehemiah is talking about is the world that God created. There is no pointing out differences in the world that God created, and the world of his elect. There is a difference in the two worlds, but that is not what God points out in Nehemiah.
Can't see how there is any difference at all as everyone still lives in this decaying world whether perceived as good or bad. There are those though that do make a positive spiritual difference and there are those whose actions have a negative spiritual impact.
 
Mar 13, 2014
28,360
6,757
113
64
Florida
#11
If you would be so kind to tell me what word, or words, did I change from what the KJV states?

Do you deny that the scriptures talk about the elect. Matt 24:31 He will gather HIS ELECT from the four winds. I have never read the writings of John Calvin or any other writings of any mans interpretation of the scriptures to base my belief. The scriptures prove themselves and harmonize with each other.
Matthew 24:31 absolutely refers to the elect. The question is who are the elect and how did they become elect. Is anyone who is born again and received salvation could be considered elect?
 
Feb 28, 2016
9,118
1,629
113
#12
MATT. 24:31.
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect
from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
13:22.
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce,
if it were possible, even 'the Elect'.
LUKE 18.27.
And shall not God avenge His own 'Elect', which cry day and night unto him, though He bear long with them?
1PETER 1:2.
'Elect' according to the foreknowledge of 'God the Father', through sanctification of The Spirit'
unto Obedience and sprinkling of The Blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
11JOHN 1:13.
The children of Thy 'elect' sister greet Thee.
Amen.
 
Jul 8, 2018
2,226
244
63
#13
Matthew 24:31 absolutely refers to the elect. The question is who are the elect and how did they become elect. Is anyone who is born again and received salvation could be considered elect?
We are not to try to determine who the elect are. David, when he was king of Israel, got into big trouble with God, when he numbered Israel. The way that the elect were chosen is explained in Eph 1. All of those who have been born again are some of the elect and all of those who will at a later date be born again are the elect. We do not know when it will be, but when the last one of his elect is born again, then Christ will come to gather his elect and take them home.