Salvation by Faith and Works?

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cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#41
According to this passages being baptized is calling upon the name of the Lord (read it again)
There is no reason to assume this was Holy Spirit baptism, but you can if you want.

Your right here, so what does that mean to us?
Both are needed, we do not choose one or the other, we carry out both.

Now your saying we can be saved two different ways, belief alone, Holy Spirit baptism.
Paul was saved Just like the Jews in Acts 2,
"what shall we do" - The non-Christian Jews, Acts 2:37
"just believe"- you
"repent and be baptized" - Peter Acts 2:38.
Baptism scriptures,

Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19)
Baptize and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38)
Baptize and wash away thy sins (Acts 22:16)
Baptized into His death (Romans 6:3)
Buried with Him in baptism (Colossians 2:12)
Baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27)
Baptism also now saves you (1 Peter 3:21)
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#42
Faith scriptures,

faith made whole (Mark 10:52)
Her faith was made whole (Mark 5:34) (Matthew 9:22)
He believed (Mark 9:24)
Believe on Him (John 6:29)
Access into His grace by faith (Romans 5:2)
Justified by faith (Romans 1:17)
works are the result of faith (James 2:18)
saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8)
Faith is the substance of things hoped for (Hebrews 11:1)

How to obtain faith?

Only believe (Mark 5:36)
Repent and believe (Mark 1:15)
Only believe and ye shall be made whole (Luke 8:50)
Faith comes by hearing the word (Romans 10:17)
Receive and believe on Him (John 1:12)
He that believes on Him is not condemned (John 3:28)
Confessing Jesus Christ with thy mouth (Romans 10:9)
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (Acts 2:21) Romans 10:13)
All that call upon the name of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:2)
OK, and if that was everything in the New Testament their would be no argument.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#43
Dear Rant.

You are indeed ranting pure nonsense. You are indeed deceived by a

great prevaricator/ false teacher, a German false prophet who has

deceived and cursed countless millions of unaware, ignorant souls with

his "tradition of men." What did Luther say why faith alone is

supposedly true. Luther said."It is so. And I will have it so. And my

will is reason enough. (I know perfectly well that the word "alone" is

not in the Greek text (of Romans 3:28). It is so because I, Dr. Martin

Luther, say it is so." Thus you have Martin Luther, as your infallible

German pope. Not because the Bible says so, but because Luther says

so, it is "so". Sheer spiritual adultery! God save us from

Lutheranism. In Erie Scott R. Harrington Dear Rant: You just are

blinded by Luther so you don't believe the Bible, you don't believe

James 2:24 and you don't believe Galatians 5:6 and 1 Cor. 13:13.

An analogy of faith is pure heresy! It is you who teach a contradiction

against God's word and you don't believe what God says. You believe

what you want to believe, not what you should! Lord have mercy on

us.


Often I get mail correcting me and explaining that James teaches that salvation is by faith plus one's

works. The verse they use is James 2:24 which says, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified,

and not by faith only." This verse seems to some to be proof positive that the Bible says that faith alone

does not save. However, on a close examination of the verse in its context within the passage it is easily

seen that this is not the case.


Let's begin by leaning some basis principles of how to interpret the Word of God. Is the verse teaching

that one's works can save him? Think for a moment, would God, who is the author of the Bible, contradict

Himself? It is a rhetorical question because the obvious answer is no, God cannot contradict Himself

because He is righteous and perfect. So are any other passages in the Bible which are as strong as James

2:24 in saying that salvation is through faith alone and not of works. The answer is yes. Look at the

following passages:


  • "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God Not of
  • works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
  • "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted
  • for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

  • "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by
  • the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly
  • through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs
  • according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7) Is God contradicting Himself? There must be
  • some explanation why these verses appear to present opposing things because God would not
  • contradict Himself.
The answer is a simple one and deals with properly interpreting the Bible. But before I explain this

seeming contradiction let's learn a little about interpreting the Word of God.


One primary rule of interpreting Scripture is the Word of God must be interpreted in the "analogy of the

Faith." The word "analogy" refers to things that are similar in various aspects. It means explaining

something by comparing it point by point with something else (Webster's New World Dictionary of the

American Language, Cleveland: The World Publishing Company. 1959, p53) In hermeneutics (the science

of interpreting the Bible) it means that we must interpret the Scriptures by comparing it point by point

with the rest of the Scriptures. In other words, we are letting the Bible interpret itself because the Bible

will be in harmony with itself. God is the author of the Bible and perfect in all his ways. Therefore God

cannot make an error or contradict Himself, so if we find a clear statement that seems to contradict some

other statement in Scripture we know we have an interpretation problem. The problem is not with the

Bible, but with our understanding of what we are reading. If we assume there is a contradiction then we

make God out to be a liar and destroy the creditability of the Bible.

Some may object to the premise that the Bible does not contradict itself, however, at the heart of

understanding the Bible is understanding what the Bible says about itself. The Bible plainly states that it is

the very Word of God! The term "Inspiration" is the theological term taken from the Bible which expresses

the truth the Bible is God's very Word. To understand inspiration we must look at two classic Scripture

verses:

The first passage is 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for

doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
The word "inspiration" can be

literally interpreted "God-breathed." The Greek word is "theopneutos", which means "theo" = God, and

"pneutos" = breathed. The Hebrew word is "nehemiah" and is used only once in the Old Testament in Job

32:8. The verse is saying God breathed on the writers of the Bible and the wrote His very Word.


The next passage is 2 Peter 1:21, "For prophecy came not in old times by the will of man; but holy men of

God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
Literally the verse is saying that inspiration is the

process by which the Holy Spirit "moved on" or directed the writers of Scripture so what they wrote was

not their words, but the word of God. God is saying He is the author of the Bible, not man. Hebrews 1:1

says, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the

prophets." God has at different times in the past, and in many ways has spoken to man. Both Paul and

Peter add that what these men wrote was God's word.

This is why we must insist the Bible is without error. God wrote it and preserves it and not man. It is the

product of God, and His Word to man. It then is without error.

When it appears an error or contradiction, the problem is in our interpretation or understanding of the

verse or passage not the Scriptures. If the passage appears to be a contradiction then your course of

action is to continue studying until you arrive at the correct interpretation where there is no

contradiction. Many times arriving at the correct interpretation of a passage of Scripture will take careful

of study.

Another rule of interpreting the Bible is that we must consider the context of statement. For example

Isaiah 22:13 says, "let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die." Is the Bible then teaching that we

should live with abandon, drinking and eating, because we are going to die?" The answer is no! The

context of the verse is that Isaiah was quoting the disobedient Judah and warning them of their sinful

attitudes and of God's judgment. The context tells us that these are the foolish words of sinful Judah not

the instruction of God. The context of the passage clearly establishes this and shows us we must consider

the context of a passage in order to understand what it truly means. Now let's get back to James 2:24.

Applying these rules of biblical interpretation we must accept that these passages of God's word do not

contradict each other and we must do further study to understand what is in truth being said. Let us then


read the passage in its context:
 
B

becausehedied

Guest
#44
In Ephesians 4:5, Paul says there is but one baptism. Is this the baptism of the Holy Spirit or baptism with water. If one says that Holy Spirit baptism still happens and water baptism is command then that is a contradiction of the Scriptures. Paul says there is one. Acts 2:38; Acts 8:35ff; Acts 10:43-48; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Peter 3:21. All of these speak of water baptism. In fact in Acts 10, Peter asked, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" Why was it so important for them to be baptized if they where already saved? Peter would have known wouldn't he? Also, In Acts 16, the Phllipian jailor, notice the course of the events. The jailor asks what to do to be saved, he is told to believe, but then they spoke the word of the Lord to him. It is apparent that he could not believe in the Lord, until he knew who he was. Thus, they spoke the word of the Lord to him, and him and his house hold believed and they where baptized. If baptism was not needed then why would Paul and Silas not have told him to believe and nothing else? Also, notice that the jailor did not rejoice until after he had been baptized, not before.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Act 16:32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Act 16:34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#45
In Ephesians 4:5, Paul says there is but one baptism. Is this the baptism of the Holy Spirit or baptism with water. If one says that Holy Spirit baptism still happens and water baptism is command then that is a contradiction of the Scriptures. Paul says there is one. Acts 2:38; Acts 8:35ff; Acts 10:43-48; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Peter 3:21. All of these speak of water baptism. In fact in Acts 10, Peter asked, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" Why was it so important for them to be baptized if they where already saved? Peter would have known wouldn't he? Also, In Acts 16, the Phllipian jailor, notice the course of the events. The jailor asks what to do to be saved, he is told to believe, but then they spoke the word of the Lord to him. It is apparent that he could not believe in the Lord, until he knew who he was. Thus, they spoke the word of the Lord to him, and him and his house hold believed and they where baptized. If baptism was not needed then why would Paul and Silas not have told him to believe and nothing else? Also, notice that the jailor did not rejoice until after he had been baptized, not before.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Act 16:32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Act 16:34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
Finally a sound post!