Salvation is for the Whole World

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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Perhaps I'm predisposed to miss other people's points.
If you think you can explain it in a different way that I'll understand better I'll be glad to give it another shot.
I'm find myself often missing other people's points that have not been constructed on solid ground but hang on suspension bridges between cliffs. :unsure:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,729
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62
I'm find myself often missing other people's points that have not been constructed on solid ground but hang on suspension bridges between cliffs. :unsure:
Perhaps we need more bungee cords. Noted.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,715
2,223
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Perhaps I'm predisposed to miss other people's points.
If you think you can explain it in a different way that I'll understand better I'll be glad to give it another shot.

I will pass.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will
live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna
and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in
Capernaum. On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”


You have made mention before about a hard teaching of Jesus. Is that ^^ the one? John 6:57-60

Can you respond to the rest of my post # 1121?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
29,018
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Can you respond to the rest of my post # 1121?
You did not answer my question .:unsure:. Can you do that first?

I am just getting ready to leave for work, also, so I may not respond for a while, as the work flow allows...
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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You did not answer my question .:unsure:. Can you do that first?

I am just getting ready to leave for work, also, so I may not respond for a while, as the work flow allows...

I thought I answered your question about Paul on the road to Damascus. Was there another question that I missed?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
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I thought I answered your question about Paul on the road to Damascus. Was there another question that I missed?
This one, from the previous page:

Magenta, post: 5037951
Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will
live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna
and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in
Capernaum. On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”


You have made mention before about a hard teaching of Jesus. Is that ^^ the one? John 6:57-60
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
This one, from the previous page:

Magenta, post: 5037951
Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will
live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna
and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in
Capernaum. On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”


You have made mention before about a hard teaching of Jesus. Is that ^^ the one? John 6:57-60

Sorry I overlooked this one. Yes this is the scripture that I was referencing.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
29,018
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[Gal 4:26-27 KJV]
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Just quoting this to hopefully be in the right thread for this panel which was in part inspired by
your insistence that nothing is required of us, for in acting in any way to receive what God has
freely provided for us, according to you, nullifies His grace and disqualifies such from being a gift.



John 1:11-13
I really wanted to start it last night but was exhausted, so designed it this morning .:). Thank you .:D
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,626
560
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Just quoting this to hopefully be in the right thread for this panel which was in part inspired by
your insistence that nothing is required of us, for in acting in any way to receive what God has
freely provided for us, according to you, nullifies His grace and disqualifies such from being a gift.



John 1:11-13
I really wanted to start it last night but was exhausted, so designed it this morning .:). Thank you .:D
I'm not sure that I had intended to convey that doing something nullifies it - meaning that they had it once but lost it, but rather meant to convey that for those who believe they must do something for it (in any way whatsoever for it), they, in believing so, at least to that point, have not yet received it. Further, just to clarify, should someone believe they will receive it because of their not doing anything for it, would, in effect, be the same as their doing something to try to receive it. Instead, I think it comes simply as realization, belief, and trust that Christ as the Saviour has already done everything on behalf of those He has chosen for salvation, and there is nothing remaining to be done by them - that it is fully and completely a gift. And they therefore happily find their spiritual rest in that. That realization and belief that He has done so, should someone truly have trust in it, can have only come to them as a result of being saved because the natural man of himself, will not/can not have it. There is nothing that anyone can do to save themselves as Christ alone is the Saviour.

Hope that makes sense.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,626
560
113
We're on this subject now, faith is not a work. The Bible says faith comes from hearing. What is there to mistake and get wrong?
"and hearing by the word of God" - to hear spiritually is given by God as a gift to those whom He has so commanded to hear.

It's not a work, but only if it is as a gift given completely of God, otherwise, it becomes a work - our work - in which case, by trusting that we can manufacture and achieve it ourselves, we also turn it into a law, one that we must then fully satisfy, yet no one can become saved by trying to satisfy the law - just the opposite - by that, we demonstrate that we are under law, and therefore, under the wrath of God..
Do you not see that "work" in the following verse is necessary for faith?
Not only is faith a work but it is God's work alone to impart it.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
29,018
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I'm not sure that I had intended to convey that doing something nullifies it - meaning that they had it once but lost it, but rather meant to convey that for those who believe they must do something for it (in any way whatsoever for it), they, in believing so, at least to that point, have not yet received it. Further, just to clarify, should someone believe they will receive it because of their not doing anything for it, would, in effect, be the same as their doing something to try to receive it. Instead, I think it comes simply as realization, belief, and trust that Christ as the Saviour has already done everything on behalf of those He has chosen for salvation, and there is nothing remaining to be done by them - that it is fully and completely a gift. And they therefore happily find their spiritual rest in that. That realization and belief that He has done so, should someone truly have trust in it, can have only come to them as a result of being saved because the natural man of himself, will not/can not have it. There is nothing that anyone can do to save themselves as Christ alone is the Saviour.

Hope that makes sense.
Not really, since you admit they "have to believe" at the same time as saying they must not do anything.

Anyways, Scripture is clear that we do do something... certainly along the lines of co-operating with God.

We hear, we believe, we accept His free gift of grace. None of those are works.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
You did not answer my question .:unsure:. Can you do that first?

I am just getting ready to leave for work, also, so I may not respond for a while, as the work flow allows...

I think that I have answered all of your questions. Can you respond to the rest of my comments on Post 1121?
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,626
560
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Not really, since you admit they "have to believe" at the same time as saying they must not do anything.

Anyways, Scripture is clear that we do do something... certainly along the lines of co-operating with God.

We hear, we believe, we accept His free gift of grace. None of those are works.
Should we actually be required to do any of the things you've mentioned (which we are not), they would then be our works - the works of law, by which, no one can become saved.

I never admitted any such thing nor would I ever - that statement is diametrically opposed and in conflict with my beliefs. I've said that true belief comes as a fruit of the Spirit from being born-again from having been saved - all of grace and God, nothing of ourselves.

Just to be clear, should anyone believe that they must contribute anything, no matter how miniscule, in order to become saved, they in effect are saying that Christ's offering as Saviour was insufficient in and of itself for salvation, and therefore, they remain under the law of works.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
29,018
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Spiritual Israel, which is not all of the nation of Israel (Rom 9:6), and is
made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9)

That most of spiritual Israel has turned away from God, in disobedience (Zeph 3:11),
but God left in the midst of them a remnant that shall trust in the Lord, and they shall
do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth,
for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid (Zeph 3:12-13).

Romans 9:6b-8 Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel... It is the children of promise who are regarded as offspring.
:)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
29,018
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By my understanding, in reading in Ezk 10, that it speaks of a wheel within a wheel, the larger outer wheel being the disobedient children of spiritual Israel, who have not lost the promise of their eternal inheritance, but have lost their fellowship with God, until they repent (Rom 11:26 - And all Israel shall be saved) I believe these to be the invisible bride of Christ, his church.

The smaller wheel being the remnant of spiritual Israel of which I believe to be the visible bride of Christ, his church.
:unsure::oops::unsure:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,679
29,018
113
Should we actually be required to do any of the things you've mentioned (which we are not), they would then be our works - the works of law, by which, no one can become saved.

I never admitted any such thing nor would I ever - that statement is diametrically opposed and in conflict with my beliefs. I've said that true belief comes as a fruit of the Spirit from being born-again from having been saved - all of grace and God, nothing of ourselves.

Just to be clear, should anyone believe that they must contribute anything, no matter how miniscule, in order to become saved, they in effect are saying that Christ's offering as Saviour was insufficient in and of itself for salvation, and therefore, they remain under the law of works.

Matthew 7:25-27