Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Apostol2013]

in His earthly ministry, Jesus spoke to 4 types of people:

His Disciples
Jews
Gentiles
His Enemies

To each group He spoke differently.

To the Jews He preached the Law, but a harder Law. The Law Christ presented to the Jews condemned them all. No man has ever lived without getting angry even once, or glancing at a girl with a bit of lust.


Don't think for one second that I don't agree with repentance being needed. The problem is about where repentance come from: self, or Holy Spirit.
If a man repents, it is not his own doing, but a work of the Holy Spirit living within him.

The very point is these are the works required with faith unsaid ut very evident but the contrast of this is Christ is the reason of and for salvation to the glory of the Father , this is where it gets to the point remember tge holy spirit gift given unto you to the renovatio. Of the mind and curation of the heart as this is necesary the faith is made up of many commandments but first to complete the faith formation the inside of the cup must be clean then the rest is made valid

 

[Apostol2013]

But alone ourselves we cannot be saved unless with Jesus Christ

 

[BenFTW]

But alone ourselves we cannot be saved unless with(?) Jesus Christ

With, or by Jesus Christ? This isn't a co-work, its resting in His work.

 

[Cassian]

With, or by Jesus Christ? This isn't a co-work, its resting in His work.

The correct word, is "with". We were created to be co-workers with God. Christ redeemed us so that we could again become co-workers.
II Cor 5:19 states we were made reconcilers in this world with Him. God's purpose for man has never changed.

 

[VCO]

Rom 5:2 shows/proves tha grace alone cannot save. How many faithless people will grace alone save? None, zero, nil, nada, zilch

You know your are stuck in a rut, throwing mud everywhere, and getting nowhere, because you insist on re-quoting the same WRONG ERRONEOUS PRESUPPOSITION ABOUT WHAT WE BELIEVE, comparing it to the same ERRONEOUS definition of what Salvation really is. AND not even realizing that while you are stuck believing in those TWO ERRORS, you will never come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.

The TRUTH is: You cannot do your very FIRST good work, without GETTING SAVED FIRST.

 

[VCO]

With, or by Jesus Christ? This isn't a co-work, its resting in His work.

Matthew 11:28-30 (GW)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] “Come to me, all who are tired from carrying heavy loads, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Place my yoke over your shoulders, and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble. Then you will find rest for yourselves
[SUP]30 [/SUP] because my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Hebrews 4:2-3 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[VCO]

DO justly and WALK humbly with God are obedient works.

Only if you do them only because you LOVE HIM. If you do them to earn part of your salvation, they are ONLY FILTHY RAGS.

 

[francina]

One of the main points that most of us here have been trying to point out to those who want to believe it is their works that will ultimately save them; is that Saved by GRACE and the gift of Faith are sown in us by the Holy Spirit Himself. THAT WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS SOWN IN US, WILL PRODUCE A HARVEST OF FAITHFULNESS AND GOOD WORKS. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT OUR WORKS THAT SAVED US, IT IS BELIEVING AND RECIEVING JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, WHICH IS PURELY A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN OUR HEARTS.

You ignored everything I wrote and every scripture I pointed to. I answered that in my post. you are misrepresenting grace and salvation. You also misrepresent the basis of the disagreement between eternal security and conditional security. It is that eternal security implies you can sin and still go to heaven or that you can not cease from sin so therefore, Jesus blood alone is your passport. Conditional security says you must walk in righteousness, live a holy life. You are changing the topic posted - salvation is not possible without works (obedience). Jesus plainly said repeatedly you must obey His commands to enter heaven.
This is the gnostic gospel that the whole letter of 1 John was written to defend against, false salvation. All the letters dealt with false doctrines of this sort. James wrote don't you know that faith without works is dead. Jude wrote that grace was being misused as a license to sin and still claim salvation. Paul wrote as John the Baptist preached, that you must DO WORKS to demonstrate your repentance. The gospel, Jesus said, is the gospel of REPENTANCE.

 

[notuptome]

The correct word, is "with". We were created to be co-workers with God. Christ redeemed us so that we could again become co-workers.
II Cor 5:19 states we were made reconcilers in this world with Him. God's purpose for man has never changed.

This is dangerous doctrine. We are not co-workers with Christ. We are Christ's workmanship but we do not aid Christ in our salvation. No sir. The blood of Christ shed on Calvary and the suffering of Christ on Calvary was completely sufficient to save for eternity every soul that comes to Him seeking forgiveness of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You ignored everything I wrote and every scripture I pointed to. I answered that in my post. you are misrepresenting grace and salvation. You also misrepresent the basis of the disagreement between eternal security and conditional security. It is that eternal security implies you can sin and still go to heaven or that you can not cease from sin so therefore, Jesus blood alone is your passport. Conditional security says you must walk in righteousness, live a holy life. You are changing the topic posted - salvation is not possible without works (obedience). Jesus plainly says no.
This is the gnostic gospel that the whole letter of 1 John was written to defend against, false salvation. All the letters dealt with false doctrines of this sort. James wrote don't you know that faith without works is dead. Jude wrote that grace was being misused as a license to sin and still claim salvation. Paul wrote as John the Baptist preached, that you must DO WORKS to demonstrate your repentance. The gospel, Jesus said, is the gospel of REPENTANCE.

You are guilty of confusing salvation and sanctification. Salvation is complete the moment we receive Christ as our Savior. Salvation is eternal life so there is no possible means of losing it.

Sanctification is our walk in this world while we await our uniting with Christ in physical death. Here is where we are a living testimony. Here is where we can sometimes fall short of what we desire to do but find forgiveness through the intercessory work of Christ.

This is how we can have tribulation in the world but peace that passeth understanding. Peace that only the Savior can give.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[francina]

You are guilty of confusing salvation and sanctification. Salvation is complete the moment we receive Christ as our Savior. Salvation is eternal life so there is no possible means of losing it.

Sanctification is our walk in this world while we await our uniting with Christ in physical death. Here is where we are a living testimony. Here is where we can sometimes fall short of what we desire to do but find forgiveness through the intercessory work of Christ.

This is how we can have tribulation in the world but peace that passeth understanding. Peace that only the Savior can give.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[francina]

Only if you do them only because you LOVE HIM. If you do them to earn part of your salvation, they are ONLY FILTHY RAGS.

Where is that 'only out of love' scripture? Love is obedience, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments". It is not possible to live in union with Christ and be one with Him & not love Him. Obedience is Christ living through you. If you have that communion with Him then you know Him, you definitely love Him. If you live in sin/disobedience - you have never known Him, it is not possible for you to love Him, no matter how much you cry when you talk about the cross covered in blood.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[Cassian]

You ignored everything I wrote and every scripture I pointed to. I answered that in my post. you are misrepresenting grace and salvation. You also misrepresent the basis of the disagreement between eternal security and conditional security. It is that eternal security implies you can sin and still go to heaven or that you can not cease from sin so therefore, Jesus blood alone is your passport. Conditional security says you must walk in righteousness, live a holy life. You are changing the topic posted - salvation is not possible without works (obedience). Jesus plainly said repeatedly you must obey His commands to enter heaven.
This is the gnostic gospel that the whole letter of 1 John was written to defend against, false salvation. All the letters dealt with false doctrines of this sort. James wrote don't you know that faith without works is dead. Jude wrote that grace was being misused as a license to sin and still claim salvation. Paul wrote as John the Baptist preached, that you must DO WORKS to demonstrate your repentance. The gospel, Jesus said, is the gospel of REPENTANCE.

A very good explanation. But after 4000 posts, half of which showed the error of this erroneous "faith only", it will go on deaf ears. Hopefully there are silent readers that will benefit from your excellent post.

 

[Cassian]

This is dangerous doctrine. We are not co-workers with Christ. We are Christ's workmanship but we do not aid Christ in our salvation. No sir. The blood of Christ shed on Calvary and the suffering of Christ on Calvary was completely sufficient to save for eternity every soul that comes to Him seeking forgiveness of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You can disagree, of course, but scripture both in Genesis in creating man made man a worker with God in this created order. Creation was a gift to man and man was to use it to glorify God. He was to bring his labors back to God as a sacrifice of love, of praise, of thanksgiving.
Our work as believers are accomplishing the very same thing. II Cor 5:19 specifically states we are reconcilers WITH God.

the forgiveness of sin does not save us either. What it does is keeps us IN Christ, so that we can continue to do the works that were created for us. The good works, not the bad works for which we need to seek forgiveness.

 

[Cassian]

You are guilty of confusing salvation and sanctification. Salvation is complete the moment we receive Christ as our Savior. Salvation is eternal life so there is no possible means of losing it.

Sanctification is our walk in this world while we await our uniting with Christ in physical death. Here is where we are a living testimony. Here is where we can sometimes fall short of what we desire to do but find forgiveness through the intercessory work of Christ.

This is how we can have tribulation in the world but peace that passeth understanding. Peace that only the Savior can give.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

this statement makes me always thing of the fact, if true, Stalin by any other defintion of scripture would be a saved person. As well, Hitler was Roman Catholic, but later renounced all religious views and practices. His religion could be said that of Nazism.
But the fact if "faith only" is held as absolute as this post states, then both are saved individuals.

 

[notuptome]

this statement makes me always thing of the fact, if true, Stalin by any other defintion of scripture would be a saved person. As well, Hitler was Roman Catholic, but later renounced all religious views and practices. His religion could be said that of Nazism.
But the fact if "faith only" is held as absolute as this post states, then both are saved individuals.

This is a common well worn diversion used by men who wish to obfuscate the truth. There is not one ounce of truth in your supposition and you know it. You make it very difficult for anyone to lend any credibility to your statements. Shame on you. You should know better by now.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[francina]

This is a common well worn diversion used by men who wish to obfuscate the truth. There is not one ounce of truth in your supposition and you know it. You make it very difficult for anyone to lend any credibility to your statements. Shame on you. You should know better by now.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Here is the reason I so hate this false gospel. I've seen the whole island nation of the Bahamas become more corrupt because of the corruption of the church. You see, they tell everyone in the church who are stealing from their jobs, living blatantly in sexual immorality, partaking in the drug trade - that they are forever saved. Yet, they rant against those outside the church, the homosexuals. There are some in the church as well but for the most part they do not participate in churches. So, Paul says those inside the church you should judge, don't even eat with those who call themselves brothers yet live in open sin. He says do not judge the world. They are the ones we need to witness to know the salvation that can set them free. Yet, if you are in the church & not free from sin, then you have no answer for them. This is why many today have abandoned the church.
Tell me, how do you judge between Hitler who was a believer, or the man who is on death row who gave his life to Christ though never really changed or the men who are selling drugs and singing in the choir. If you can not live differently from the world, then you have no solution for those in the world. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Cassian]

This is a common well worn diversion used by men who wish to obfuscate the truth. There is not one ounce of truth in your supposition and you know it. You make it very difficult for anyone to lend any credibility to your statements. Shame on you. You should know better by now.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What has no credibility from scripture is that one is saved (cannot ever lose salvation) upon a moment of belief. that all the rest that we do is just fodder, has no consequence whatsoever. It fits perfectly the examples of Stalin and Hitler. They and others like them all fit the description perfectly.

 

[VCO]

You ignored everything I wrote and every scripture I pointed to. I answered that in my post. you are misrepresenting grace and salvation. You also misrepresent the basis of the disagreement between eternal security and conditional security. It is that eternal security implies you can sin and still go to heaven or that you can not cease from sin so therefore, Jesus blood alone is your passport. Conditional security says you must walk in righteousness, live a holy life. You are changing the topic posted - salvation is not possible without works (obedience). Jesus plainly said repeatedly you must obey His commands to enter heaven.
This is the gnostic gospel that the whole letter of 1 John was written to defend against, false salvation. All the letters dealt with false doctrines of this sort. James wrote don't you know that faith without works is dead. Jude wrote that grace was being misused as a license to sin and still claim salvation. Paul wrote as John the Baptist preached, that you must DO WORKS to demonstrate your repentance. The gospel, Jesus said, is the gospel of REPENTANCE.

><>t<><

NO, I told you the TRUTH, exactly like GOD said it. GRACE is receiving what we have not earned and do not deserve. That Grace and Faith are a free gift, unearned and undeserved. AND James was telling you that those Free gifts sown in us by the Holy Spirit, will produce a harvest of GOOD WORKS, validating that HE really did save us and that the Holy Spirit really does dwell in us.

Ephesians 2:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),

Ephesians 2:8-9 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, that no man should glory.

Romans 11:6 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Titus 3:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Galatians 2:16 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Like I said, I DID TELL YOU THE TRUTH, but you chose to reject the Truth.

The Saving Faith that the Holy Spirit gives to us, not only SAVED US, but will produce in us the desire to receive Jesus Christ as LORD, so that we submit to Him in obedience out of LOVE for HIM. Faith that fails to produce that, is NOT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, but only of the human intellect. It is not head knowledge about HIM that SAVES, it is HEART KNOWLEDGE of genuinely KNOWING HIM as our LORD and MASTER. Therefore a true Christian's obedience is always an act of LOVE for our Master, not the False Doctrine of "I have to earn part of my Salvation."

 

[VCO]

Where is that 'only out of love' scripture? Love is obedience, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments". It is not possible to live in union with Christ and be one with Him & not love Him. Obedience is Christ living through you. If you have that communion with Him then you know Him, you definitely love Him. If you live in sin/disobedience - you have never known Him, it is not possible for you to love Him, no matter how much you cry when you talk about the cross covered in blood.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Are you blind, you just quoted it.

1 John 4:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]. . . Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

LOVE IS THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR WORKS.

1 Chronicles 28:9-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Consider now, for the LORD has chosen you to build a house for the sanctuary; be strong, and do it."

WE DO NOT SERVE TO EARN WAGES, WE SERVE BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM.

Romans 4:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Can't you see it? It is not What you do that makes you righteous in the eyes of GOD, it is WHY YOU DO WHAT YOU DO?

It has always been the MOTIVES behind the works that GOD is searching for.

HE laid down His life for you as an act of LOVE, lay down your life as an act of LOVE, surrendering control of your life to HIM. Serve HIM because you LOVE HIM, not because you think you can manipulate HIM into giving you what you think you can earn.

I will know you understand, when you find yourself crying because He gave you yet another opportunity to serve Him.