Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

If a man/woman puts out applications for a job, they can pray and believe they will get the job. If in fact they do get the job, they have to work. They have been given what they asked for, but in order to keep the job, they must work.

Of course, God is more gracious than almost, if not all, bosses and would be understanding if one has difficulty doing whatever work He has for them. If one is a Christian, it is presumed that they will serve God, thus do works.

I don't quite understand the issue here. Are we trying to define what works are? Or if one can be saved only through faith or works alone?

Can one be saved WITHOUT EVER doing any kind of works at all?

Those that back the "faith only" doctrine say "yes". I do not see how it is biblically possible.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Can one be saved WITHOUT EVER doing any kind of works at all?

Those that back the "faith only" doctrine say "yes". I do not see how it is biblically possible.

You should answer your own questions if you would but listen to yourself. What about those who never got to see the light of a day to work? What about those that were aborted or miscarried? They cannot get a job. Are they doomed?

 

[Angela53510]

Where is the word "legalist" in the bible?




If God does it all while man does nothing, then how does God decide whom He does it to and whom He does not do it to?





In 1 Cor 6:11 both verbs "justifed" and "sanctified" are aorist past tense but that did not keep the the Corinthians from being warned they could still fall away and be lost, 1 Cor 10:12. Both verbs are in the passive voice, God did the sanctifying and justifying. The question again, how does God decide whom He will or will not justify and sanctify? Randomness?

I like parcing Greek verbs. I also like to note the order of events that take place in a context as in Rom 6:17,18...."But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

First order of events > they were servants of sins
Second order of event > they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
The last order of event > "then made free from sin (justified)

God did not justify them until AFTER they obeyed from the heart that form of docrtine. So to answer myownquestionas to whom God doees or does nt justify? He djustifes thaose that obey Him, not the ones that disobey Him by doing nothing




Again, whom does God sanctify and why? Whom does God NOT sanctify and why?

2 Tim 2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

Do the ones that "do nothing" get sanctified? Or do the ones who purges himslef from sin?

And how does a man "purge himself" or "save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16 or "save yourselves" Acts 2:40 or purify your own soul, 1 Pet 1:22 ??

1 Cor 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus"



Sancification is only IN CHRIST JESUS Not one verse say "doing nothing" gets one into Christ Jesus. Bpatism gets one nto Christ, Gal 3:27; Rom 6:3-6.




Rom 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

If the Christian does not conditionally suffer with Christ, will he stillbe glorified anyway?

You really know how to twist the simple truth of scripture, even when presented with the truth of what the Greek really says about justification. I wonder what God will say to you on Judgment Day for trying to lead people astray from the gospel of Jesus Christ??

I will not even deign to answer this gibberish. You have not countered with a discussion of the original language, instead, you have just tried to muddy the truth of salvation by grace.

So sorry for you, and your dogmatic (also not in the Bible!) legalism. Would you prefer to be called a Judaizer? That is in the Bible.

"But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”" Gal. 2:14

 

[SeaBass]

Well SeaBass, I'd love to hear your rendition of what kinds of works we should be doing. Is God calling on you to provide us with this message? It's a good message, after all. I just don't know why everyone here argues so much.

To me it's simple. I'm not inviting the neighbor's kids to my son's birthday party if they are self serving brats who will steal candy and presents and then cry and complain. They aren't invited to the party. I am inviting the nice, thankful children who bring gifts, give love to my son and my family, and participate in the joy of having a birthday with obedience and gratitude. Not everyone is going to get invited to God's party.

I order to become a Christian one must do the obedient works of believing,Jn 3:16; repentance, Lk 13:35, confession, Mt 10:32;33, and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.

After one then becomes a Christian, he must do good works, Eph 2:10, Matt 25; walk in the light so Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins, 1 Jn 1:7; be faithful unto death, Rev 2:10, keep Christ's works, Rev 2:26

 

[JustBrandon]

Can one be saved WITHOUT EVER doing any kind of works at all?

Those that back the "faith only" doctrine say "yes". I do not see how it is biblically possible.

I never said I backed the "faith only" doctrine. Because I do believe as a Christian or any of religion in fact, works must be done. If you ask a Hindu what works must be done, they may say it is to meditate and make peace. If you ask someone who Islamic, they may say to spread the word of the Qu'ran. Christians would say to spread God's love and share the word of Christ with everyone they meet.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

I order to become a Christian one must do the obedient works of believing,Jn 3:16; repentance, Lk 13:35, confession, Mt 10:32;33, and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.

After one then becomes a Christian, he must do good works, Eph 2:10, Matt 25; walk in the light so Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins, 1 Jn 1:7; be faithful unto death, Rev 2:10, keep Christ's works, Rev 2:26

What work did Christ do to take care of His family? What job did He have to support His mom, dad and brothers?

 

[Pres19]

Savlation is either through obedient works or by faith only. It's a mutually exclusive propostion, cannot be both at the same time.

How many people do you know believe in the man-made teaching of "faith only"? Faith only does not save, so would you tell them them or try to show them to get them on the right pathway to salvation?

Honestly I would tell them how I felt, believed and read in Gods word.. Id live my life to help be an example to them
I'd pray for them. Then I'd let it be.
You can tell someone something 1,000,000,000 times..but weather they will believe it or even care is a another story.
We can't change people..
But we can show them the way to Jesus. And pray they will someday understand.

 

[SeaBass]

You really know how to twist the simple truth of scripture, even when presented with the truth of what the Greek really says about justification. I wonder what God will say to you on Judgment Day for trying to lead people astray from the gospel of Jesus Christ??

I will not even deign to answer this gibberish. You have not countered with a discussion of the original language, instead, you have just tried to muddy the truth of salvation by grace.

So sorry for you, and your dogmatic (also not in the Bible!) legalism. Would you prefer to be called a Judaizer? That is in the Bible.

"But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”" Gal. 2:14


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You just essentially attacked my post, accused me of being dogmatic and a legalist and did not prove my post to be wrong.


Am I a Judaizer simply because I do not go along with your man-made teachings?



And by the way, where is that word "legalist" in the bible?

 

[JustBrandon]

Honestly I would tell them how I felt, believed and read in Gods word.. Id live my life to help be an example to them
I'd pray for them. Then I'd let it be.
You can tell someone something 1,000,000,000 times..but weather they will believe it or even care is a another story.
We can't change people..
But we can show them the way to Jesus. And pray they will someday understand.

I completely agree. We can preach all we want, but if one has their ears shut and eyes closed, what we say will mean nothing. I believe that God understands that were trying though.

 

[SeaBass]

I never said I backed the "faith only" doctrine. Because I do believe as a Christian or any of religion in fact, works must be done. If you ask a Hindu what works must be done, they may say it is to meditate and make peace. If you ask someone who Islamic, they may say to spread the word of the Qu'ran. Christians would say to spread God's love and share the word of Christ with everyone they meet.

I am not saying YOU back faith only but some in this forum do.

Eph 2:10 God preordained Christians to walk in good works. So as a faith only proponent can a CHristian not do as God preordained in Eph 2:10, can that Christian still be saved?

 

[SeaBass]

What work did Christ do to take care of His family? What job did He have to support His mom, dad and brothers?

His family supported themselves carpenters, fishermen. He had no wife or children of His own to provide for.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

You're not looking for answers, only to be right.

 

[SeaBass]

You're not looking for answers, only to be right.

I would not ask question if I was not looking for answers.

As far as I am concerned, asking questions is the best way to get people to think.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Savlation is either through obedient works or by faith only. It's a mutually exclusive propostion, cannot be both at the same time.

How many people do you know believe in the man-made teaching of "faith only"? Faith only does not save, so would you tell them them or try to show them to get them on the right pathway to salvation?

Ephesians 2.9

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Carpenter.

Where does it say that at? It says that He was a carpenter's son.

But to entertain this mainstream thought, what did He make an hour? How many hours did He work a week? When did He find the time to preach, before or after His job?

 

[danalee]

You should answer your own questions if you would but listen to yourself. What about those who never got to see the light of a day to work? What about those that were aborted or miscarried? They cannot get a job. Are they doomed?

No. Because God is reasonable.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

I would not ask question if I was not looking for answers.

As far as I am concerned, asking questions is the best way to get people to think.

You are correct. But you must also willing to receive the answers and be wrong.

There is no shame in being wrong when you honestly look for truth.

 

[JustBrandon]

I am not saying YOU back faith only but some in this forum do.

Eph 2:10 God preordained Christians to walk in good works. So as a faith only proponent can a CHristian not do as God preordained in Eph 2:10, can that Christian still be saved?

Technically, we can be saved through faith, but the real question would be, what true Christian wouldn't do works to serve God and show their faithfulness?

 

[Pres19]

I completely agree. We can preach all we want, but if one has their ears shut and eyes closed, what we say will mean nothing. I believe that God understands that were trying though.

Yup! We need to be lights for others. If no one will hear God does see that we tried.
We do works for His glory. We tell everyone we know about God and we pray people will come around.
But if someone doesn't want to believe.. constantly pushing them with what we believe isn't goin to help.

 

[danalee]

I order to become a Christian one must do the obedient works of believing,Jn 3:16; repentance, Lk 13:35, confession, Mt 10:32;33, and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.

After one then becomes a Christian, he must do good works, Eph 2:10, Matt 25; walk in the light so Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins, 1 Jn 1:7; be faithful unto death, Rev 2:10, keep Christ's works, Rev 2:26

Oh yes, thank you for retyping. Good insight and reminder.