You told the man that the Greek word under "hath" in the KJV (sarcastically referring to as "King Jimmy") Matt 5:23 was the aorist tense when he said it was present, he was correct, you were not and I corrected you, so you should not get into the Greek unless you know it, this way you will not look so foolish.
SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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John was the forerunner to Christ, Water baptism was brought in as a commandment from God through John the baptizer, John baptized for repentance for remission of sins, but it took the blood of Christ which when John preached in the wilderness had not yet happened, therefore since Pentecost it required the teachings of Jesus, see Acts 19 where Paul re-baptized 12 that were baptized by John but never taught Jesus.
Acts 19:1-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples [SUP]2 [/SUP]he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." [SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." [SUP]4 [/SUP]Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." [SUP]5[/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:1-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples [SUP]2 [/SUP]he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." [SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." [SUP]4 [/SUP]Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." [SUP]5[/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
For sure...Why would I want to acknowledge heresy over the truth....Salvation is by grace through faith...not works, baptism, church membership, being slain in the spirit etc....THEY ARE ALL separate from SALVATION and do not supplement salvation....your vindictive attitude proves who your father really is.....KEEP on rejecting the truth of eternal salvation thru faith in Christ void of works and it will cost you for eternity!
You are right and I agree we who preach saved by grace through faith are exactly like our HEAVENLY FATHER as it is you and your cronies who teach works for salvation and or to keep salvation are just like your cousins the Pharisees and exactly like your accusatory father the devil...he was a liar from the beginning and it seems you like to twist the scriptures to your own false doctrine while rejecting the truth as presented so as to swallow hook, line a sinker a false doctrine which will take you to hell/lake of fire if you keep rejecting the mercy, grace and faith OF JESUS!
H
mt.6:15 is certainly a proof text for this thread; no one will be saved if they are not a forgiving person. I think no saved person would ever argue against that fact that Christians are good moral persons. The error of "faith only" is, they have bought into the Devil deception; And can not reason, rightly divide" scripture any more. The real issue is: what laws are for us today. answer: only Jesus laws, the New T.. love to Hoffco
Not according to John, Jesus, Paul and the books of
John, 1st john, Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, Colossians, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, Hebrews, etc....
You have to reject hundreds of scriptures and scriptural references hat are in context in favor of a handful of scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT to teach heretical works for salvation and or to keep salvation.....
A gospel of a different kind, no power to save and leads to hell/lake of fire...
Many will go before Jesus claiming WORKS as a right to enter heaven....HE NEVER KNEW THEM as they attempt to enter the sheepfold by ANOTHER DOOR<------THAT BEING THEIR OWN WORKS...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!
John, 1st john, Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, Colossians, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, Hebrews, etc....
You have to reject hundreds of scriptures and scriptural references hat are in context in favor of a handful of scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT to teach heretical works for salvation and or to keep salvation.....
A gospel of a different kind, no power to save and leads to hell/lake of fire...
Many will go before Jesus claiming WORKS as a right to enter heaven....HE NEVER KNEW THEM as they attempt to enter the sheepfold by ANOTHER DOOR<------THAT BEING THEIR OWN WORKS...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!
That is the exact error of the people who said, "Lord, Lord..." Let me ask you a question Alligator? What Christian, in their right mind, standing before judgement would point to anything else besides the cross(and what Christ did) for salvation? Think about that. Why would a Christian stand before God and point to his works, such as healing, signs and miracles as the reason that he should be saved? Christians know that they are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, they know that all men fall short of the glory of God and no man can earn salvation. It is by grace, not works. So, why then would a Christian defending himself as to the reason he should be saved, point to himself!? What type of Christian is that!? Seems self-righteous to me. Point to Christ and what He did on the cross for the forgiveness of your sins. Rest in Him. If God asks you why you should be saved, you point to Christ and no other. Why? He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the sole reason as to your reconciliation to the Father. He is your Lord and Savior. He is your Redeemer.
REALLY? you just took ALL of these scriptures & gave them all a "counterfeit faith" meaning? I have 2 things to say about that:
1. It would take a fool to do that.
2. It would take another fool to agree with it.
This just goes to show that a "certain" group of people on here have an agenda to promote heresy on purpose. This little group starts out with "by grace thru faith" which is fine, but then they sneak in OSAS, thus the ONLY reason they're fighting with the others in the first place. The irony is that those that don't believe in "falling away" are the very ones that are doing it, & trying to lead others astray in it.
Your methods betray you. Your attitude betrays you. Constantly fighting against the scriptures others post betrays you. Your fruits betray you. You need to be put on ignore.
1. It would take a fool to do that.
2. It would take another fool to agree with it.
This just goes to show that a "certain" group of people on here have an agenda to promote heresy on purpose. This little group starts out with "by grace thru faith" which is fine, but then they sneak in OSAS, thus the ONLY reason they're fighting with the others in the first place. The irony is that those that don't believe in "falling away" are the very ones that are doing it, & trying to lead others astray in it.
Your methods betray you. Your attitude betrays you. Constantly fighting against the scriptures others post betrays you. Your fruits betray you. You need to be put on ignore.
That is the testimony of Scripture.
The Holy Spirit not only uses a donkey, but he uses those with counterfeit faith,
even to work miracles (Mt 7:21-23--he never knew them as his own, even from the beginning,
even though they worked miracles).
This is one of the many Scriptures of which your understanding is surface-deep, and with which you do not reckon.
True faith is not you living in something, it is something (rebirth) living in you.
You can do all the good deeds you want, for as long as you want, as did the Christ-rejecting Pharisees,
but when the time of trial comes, as was Jesus for the Pharisees, you will not persevere in faith.
My final authority is Scripture, yours is not.
Without a common final authority to resolve opposing differences,
you are wasting your time and ours here.
The Holy Spirit not only uses a donkey, but he uses those with counterfeit faith,
even to work miracles (Mt 7:21-23--he never knew them as his own, even from the beginning,
even though they worked miracles).
This is one of the many Scriptures of which your understanding is surface-deep, and with which you do not reckon.
True faith is not you living in something, it is something (rebirth) living in you.
You can do all the good deeds you want, for as long as you want, as did the Christ-rejecting Pharisees,
but when the time of trial comes, as was Jesus for the Pharisees, you will not persevere in faith.
My final authority is Scripture, yours is not.
Without a common final authority to resolve opposing differences,
you are wasting your time and ours here.
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Yes, and these verses should comfort you. Those verses are speaking of reward, not punishment.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
King James Version (KJV)
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Here a man is left with nothing, his work all burnt up, and yet what? He is still saved. If you have work still standing you will receive a reward. If not, you are still saved. These verses point out that our salvation isn't at risk, our rewards are.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
King James Version (KJV)
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Here a man is left with nothing, his work all burnt up, and yet what? He is still saved. If you have work still standing you will receive a reward. If not, you are still saved. These verses point out that our salvation isn't at risk, our rewards are.
K
The scripture I read says if you believe in your heart, not believe in your mind.
[h=3]Romans 10:9[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
This may be the central issue, a degree from college does not mean wisdom. Wisdom is not head knowledge, it's heart knowledge. You can know the LORD's will profoundly better than all men, and still it will profit you nothing if you do no do the Father's will that you know in your heart He desires. I would venture to say that the adversary has profound knowledge of the Father's will, and scripture.
I have yet to read any words on cc of claiming they can work their way to Salvation. What I have seen are those who have wisdom in saying we should be seeking to please our Creator. [SUP]
1 Timothy 2:15 [/SUP]Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, handling aright the word of truth.
[h=3]Romans 10:9[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
This may be the central issue, a degree from college does not mean wisdom. Wisdom is not head knowledge, it's heart knowledge. You can know the LORD's will profoundly better than all men, and still it will profit you nothing if you do no do the Father's will that you know in your heart He desires. I would venture to say that the adversary has profound knowledge of the Father's will, and scripture.
I have yet to read any words on cc of claiming they can work their way to Salvation. What I have seen are those who have wisdom in saying we should be seeking to please our Creator. [SUP]
1 Timothy 2:15 [/SUP]Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, handling aright the word of truth.