That's the way these guys are...... you can throw a hundred scriptures at them, & all that will do is get them to holler "context, context!!", & never explain why. They're so big for their britches they believe we'll just believe it 'cause they said so. This is the reason some people think these guys are all the same person..... they all act just alike. They believe we should believe them 'cause they continually are correcting others but won't allow correction to come to themselves. Such haughtiness, arrogance, & self-righteousness is evident within them you'd swear they're the same person. But they're not........ they are all like their father.......thus the family resemblence.
SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Perhaps I don't. Maybe you could enlighten me then.
You keep saying never, ever, and anyone. When you're dead, it's too late. The word doesn't say never. We're not going to be judged of any acts after we are gone, only those we commit here in this world.
The word says until you forgive the other person, you yourself will not be forgiven. I think that is pretty plain to see.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
I don't know exactly what that entails, but it doesn't look or sound good to me.
You keep saying never, ever, and anyone. When you're dead, it's too late. The word doesn't say never. We're not going to be judged of any acts after we are gone, only those we commit here in this world.
The word says until you forgive the other person, you yourself will not be forgiven. I think that is pretty plain to see.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
I don't know exactly what that entails, but it doesn't look or sound good to me.
What you don't get is the disciples were commissioned to baptize, Jesus said "go throughout the world baptizing", he did not say "go throughout the world so I can baptize"
Jesus and ONLY Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit, the disciples baptize(d) with water. the Holy Spirit is what puts us in contact with the blood of Jesus Christ (in the water) remitting our sins, but it is the disciples that were commissioned to baptize, not Jesus.
Jesus and ONLY Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit, the disciples baptize(d) with water. the Holy Spirit is what puts us in contact with the blood of Jesus Christ (in the water) remitting our sins, but it is the disciples that were commissioned to baptize, not Jesus.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
What about these? They all say the same thing.
Let's face some simple and obvious facts. We are to forgive everyone of everything that we are currently holding against them. That is part of the commandment of the lord. Love your neighbor as yourself, and repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That's one of the things we are to confess, then he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It is a sin to hold a grudge and refuse to forgive someone. That's what John the Baptist got people to do to make straight the way of the lord.
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Again, whoever's sins or offenses you refuse to let go of, you will keep, and God will not forgive you. This is for the Christian.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
What about these? They all say the same thing.
Let's face some simple and obvious facts. We are to forgive everyone of everything that we are currently holding against them. That is part of the commandment of the lord. Love your neighbor as yourself, and repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That's one of the things we are to confess, then he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It is a sin to hold a grudge and refuse to forgive someone. That's what John the Baptist got people to do to make straight the way of the lord.
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Again, whoever's sins or offenses you refuse to let go of, you will keep, and God will not forgive you. This is for the Christian.
Why would one cry out against the Word of God?
These Scriptures all speak of counterfeit faith (1Jn 2:19; Lk 8:13; Mt 7:21-23) which
does not save.
Saving faith is a bi-component entity composed of faith and obedience, both being required
to be saving faith.
The first component, faith, is the only one that saves,
but without the second component, obedience, which is the necessary result and
is necessarily produced by true faith, it is not saving faith, it is counterfeit faith,
and does not obey, eventually falling away (1Jn 2:19; Lk 8:13).
Many in the professing church have counterfeit faith, as evidenced by their habitual
not obeying.
You confound the two separate components of true faith
because you do not understand the difference between the two components of
true faith (Eph 2:8-9), which obeys, and counterfeit faith (1Jn 2:19; Lk 8:13)
which has no root (Lk 8:13) of rebirth, does not save and does not persevere.
These Scriptures all speak of counterfeit faith (1Jn 2:19; Lk 8:13; Mt 7:21-23) which
does not save.
Saving faith is a bi-component entity composed of faith and obedience, both being required
to be saving faith.
The first component, faith, is the only one that saves,
but without the second component, obedience, which is the necessary result and
is necessarily produced by true faith, it is not saving faith, it is counterfeit faith,
and does not obey, eventually falling away (1Jn 2:19; Lk 8:13).
Many in the professing church have counterfeit faith, as evidenced by their habitual
not obeying.
You confound the two separate components of true faith
because you do not understand the difference between the two components of
true faith (Eph 2:8-9), which obeys, and counterfeit faith (1Jn 2:19; Lk 8:13)
which has no root (Lk 8:13) of rebirth, does not save and does not persevere.
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The real problem with your view is that we have unbelievers who repented, and remain unbelievers. We have the same who were baptised into Christ, but still unbelievers. We have same who were given the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have the same bearing good fruit unto righeousness, yet you call them unbelievers. Because some 50 years later, they decide to depart the faith, lose faith. Then you say all the before was just a fake. It is the same old nonsense. You have one living in the proverbial tree for 50 years, but fell out, then you say he was never in the tree to begin with.
You have so twisted scripture that it makes it null and void. The point is that a person IS NOT SAVED UPON A SIMPLE ASCENT OF FAITH. There is NO SALVATION until the end. It is the result of one's faith being sustained working out our salvation with the Holy Spirit with fear and trembling. Upon faith, we enter into a relationship, not salvation.
Our faith is being tested by our ability to resist sin. The Holy Spirit has given us all the armor to do this, but man still throws off the armor because he does not like to be IN Christ. He prefers the world and its pleasures.
YOu are correct we cannot lose salvation, but then in this life we never had it. What we have is faith in Christ, and it is that faith that must continue. If we lose faith, we shall not be saved. Salvation is the goal, not the means. Faith is the means to salvation.
You have so twisted scripture that it makes it null and void. The point is that a person IS NOT SAVED UPON A SIMPLE ASCENT OF FAITH. There is NO SALVATION until the end. It is the result of one's faith being sustained working out our salvation with the Holy Spirit with fear and trembling. Upon faith, we enter into a relationship, not salvation.
Our faith is being tested by our ability to resist sin. The Holy Spirit has given us all the armor to do this, but man still throws off the armor because he does not like to be IN Christ. He prefers the world and its pleasures.
YOu are correct we cannot lose salvation, but then in this life we never had it. What we have is faith in Christ, and it is that faith that must continue. If we lose faith, we shall not be saved. Salvation is the goal, not the means. Faith is the means to salvation.