SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
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This is your quote you are what you say you are
I always remind the Lord that I am a low life Gentile not worthy to lick the dust off the bottom of his righteous foot! I am like the Centurion and not worthy that the Lord should come under my roof or like the woman who reminded the Lord that even the dogs lick from the crumbs that fall from the master's table...Or the guy who beats on his chest saying, be merciful unto me a sinner....Thank God that the Heavenly Father through Jesus brought both Jews and Gentiles in under the banner of faith. Jesus gets the Glory!
This is what god says we are
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Now consider this
Heb 5
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Yes I get it as I was tired when I read it the first time....I know that the saved are called a special treasured people and a few other words of such caliber and I agree with what you have posted....and humble and contrite person God will heal and as a man with a past before Christ I sometimes feel (most of the time actually) unworthy of the least of the mercies of God......
That's because you have no understanding of salvation from beginning to end. By juxaposing your stated views against what scripture has always taught, one comes to the conclusion that I stated.
Which is why all your statements are unscriptural because your foundation for making them are unscriptural. You hold to the theories of at least three different men who changed the meaning of the Gospel of Christ. You should do a historical check on some of the things you believe.
Which is why all your statements are unscriptural because your foundation for making them are unscriptural. You hold to the theories of at least three different men who changed the meaning of the Gospel of Christ. You should do a historical check on some of the things you believe.
I have checked and I have also studied and there is no contradictions found with once saved always saved as it is your contrary view that is lacking in substance...
SCRIPTURES which you never seem to have to support your own views....LIKE I said....TAKE YOUR GERITOL and PUT YOUR GLASSES ON and start in GENESIS slowly...maybe if in the next 6 months or so you will find the Lord before it is too late for you and your works for salvation heresy.
SCRIPTURES which you never seem to have to support your own views....LIKE I said....TAKE YOUR GERITOL and PUT YOUR GLASSES ON and start in GENESIS slowly...maybe if in the next 6 months or so you will find the Lord before it is too late for you and your works for salvation heresy.
If one studies with false paradigms and foundational premises, one can come up with all kinds of truths, which again is quite obvious over the last 500 years. Yet, of all those men, hundreds, only ONE came up with the idea OSAS, which is an extension of Calvinism, based on predestination. You should study where Calvin got the idea of predestination and take it to the root. It is NOT found in scripture. It has never been a teaching of scripture prior to Calvin. But if you like to keep your head in the sand, so be it.
You are too kind ma'am. Do you remember our last discourse? If I am nice to you, it is only because you are a woman, not to mention, a very intelligent one at that. I am harder on men.
Though you have me at a disadvantage with your superior intellect and knowledge of scripture, I enjoy the challenge, when I have the time to reply. It also gives me something to think about and search out in the bible.
Okay, I gather you are talking about someone who will never forgive or refuse to let some ill will or feelings toward another person go, and not a temporary thing. Do I understand you correctly?
As for the disobedient, would you mind expounding that word for me please? What do you mean specifically? How does disobedience tie into faith?
When you say the disobedient don't have a true saving kind of faith, are you saying that it is because they are not obeying the commands of Jesus, such as, loving God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and your neighbor as yourself? Or is it because they are doing some sin habitually, such as getting drunk every night or every weekend?
Have you ever met someone who wanted to stop a particular sin, but couldn't?
I would question a person's salvation based more on their attitude or character toward a sin they might be committing than the act itself. If a person finds themself caught in a sin and can't get out, because they don't know how, because they haven't been taught what Jesus has done for them on the cross, would you ditch that person because of their ignorance or because of their own weakness?
On the other hand, if you have a person that has no remorse, but explains away or justifies their sins, this person, in my eyes, is not born again, as they are not being convicted in their heart of their sins.
Would you mind elaborating, repentance, for me please?
If you are referring to the kind of repentance that turns from doubt to believing, I can agree with the above statement. But, if it is about repenting from your dead works or feeling sorry for your sins, then I would politely disagree with you ma'am.
I say this because of Romans 10: 9-10.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Believe with your heart, and confess that belief with your mouth, and your will be saved. If you don't add anything to those verses, and take it, as is, then that is all that is need for salvation. No baptism, or repentance of dead or evil works, just believe and confess, and you are saved.
But what if you have a person who really believes and at the first have made Jesus lord of their lives, then got caught up in some sin, hates it and themselves, wants to stop, but can't. What do you tell a person like that? 'Sorry, if you can't stop sinning, you never were saved'?
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Yes, that is correct, that was the purpose of my putting it there in the first place. If you are already washed clean by the blood of Jesus at the time of salvation and forever after, then why are we forgiven and cleansed from our sins, after we are saved, when we confess them?
Okay, I think I understand what you are saying, but don't you think their will be consequences to sins that a child of God commits and hasn't repented and confessed, such as the ones mentioned in scripture below? What happened to the ones that died because of God's judgement on them?
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you [the church], and many sleep [God killed them].
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves [repent], we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
And Heb 12:5-11
How did they die? Was it because of the sickness that God put on them that killed them?
I personally am having a hard time comprehending why so very few Christian can see this. The fact that God judges or chastens us, when we sin and fail to repent. That God is still just to punish us for the sins we committed, but does not condemn us with the unbelievers, to eternal damnation. I just what the part of not condemning us to be noticed. Our names are still written in the Lamb's book of life, our salvation has not taken from us, yet we are judged and/or chastened in the natural world for the sins we commit.
'Completely provides'? What do you mean ma'am?
Our disposition is governed by the spirit that is in us. Joh 8:38-44
As for our will, I believe we have more than one kind. One that is of us and one that is not. One that is from one part of us, and the other from another part.
Agreed... rebirth does alter our character, because of the new or fresh heart and spirit God put within us, along with His Spirit, which causes us do His will. Eze 36:25-27
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It goes further back than Calvin or ... My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (Joh 10:27-30) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:35-39) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Rom 5:8-10) ...is one going to say John and Paul were also Calvinists.
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Where is predestination in this context?
Rom 5:8-10 is not even about believers.
You have picked a premise, a false one, namely predestination as formulated, constructed by the reformed/Calvinist theology and superimposed it on scripture. I might add, your use of Rom 5:8-10, if predestination is applied would make Calvinists Universalist since part of their theology is that whom Christ died for will also be saved, meaning going to heaven.
Historically, the origin, the stem that crept into Christian theology starts with Augustine who used many ideas from his former faith, Manicheanism. Mana, the founder, incorporated many known theories of religions of that day, including Christianity. Augustine did the reverse, incorporated many false ideas from Manicheanism and Neo-Platonism into Christianity. So, the root is actually pagan. Boettner states as much and recognizes it as being fatalism, but fatalism, not of some pagan diety, but of God.
The saddest thing is that many are taught this as scriptural and those teaching it never acknowledge the origins of the teaching. Any theory that has a man's name attached to it is suspect. There is no scriptural teachings that have man's names attached. This occurs ONLY in Protestant milieu of sola scriptura where individual men develops his own idea of what scripture might mean. That is historical fact that cannot be changed.
Rom 5:8-10 is not even about believers.
You have picked a premise, a false one, namely predestination as formulated, constructed by the reformed/Calvinist theology and superimposed it on scripture. I might add, your use of Rom 5:8-10, if predestination is applied would make Calvinists Universalist since part of their theology is that whom Christ died for will also be saved, meaning going to heaven.
Historically, the origin, the stem that crept into Christian theology starts with Augustine who used many ideas from his former faith, Manicheanism. Mana, the founder, incorporated many known theories of religions of that day, including Christianity. Augustine did the reverse, incorporated many false ideas from Manicheanism and Neo-Platonism into Christianity. So, the root is actually pagan. Boettner states as much and recognizes it as being fatalism, but fatalism, not of some pagan diety, but of God.
The saddest thing is that many are taught this as scriptural and those teaching it never acknowledge the origins of the teaching. Any theory that has a man's name attached to it is suspect. There is no scriptural teachings that have man's names attached. This occurs ONLY in Protestant milieu of sola scriptura where individual men develops his own idea of what scripture might mean. That is historical fact that cannot be changed.
Maybe you can add this to your list.
It is time for every man to judge himself by the word of God. And God has set his standard in The book of Revelation where he speaks to his Church. There are seven churches and every believer will be found in one of those. There are precise instructions and commands as to what need fixing in our lives and the promise to those who overcome.
It is time for every man to judge himself by the word of God. And God has set his standard in The book of Revelation where he speaks to his Church. There are seven churches and every believer will be found in one of those. There are precise instructions and commands as to what need fixing in our lives and the promise to those who overcome.
Yes, I am speaking of a heart disposition, which shows itself not to have been changed by a new birth,
which means one is not saved.
By disobedience, I mean an habitual sinful lifestyle, an habitual general walking in the darkness.
Yes, and I've also heard of some who finally did.
I would work with the person caught in the besetting sin to help them discover the root
(which always boils down to a false belief) which causes the sinful habit, then
to transform their mind by presenting the truth of Scriptures regarding this false belief, and
together in prayer with them beseech God to work into their heart His truth on the matter.
The meaning of the Greek word for repentance is a "change of mind."
Repentance is "that mighty change of heart and mind" from unbelief to belief (saving faith).
I would do the same as with besetting sin, addressed above.
"Confess" is "to agree with. "
Confession is to bring our hearts into agreement with God about our sin, in order to restore fellowship with him.
God's "judgment" of physical death does not mean eternal death.
God disciplines/chastens those he loves, and sometimes that discipline may be physical death
to keep them from further sin.
That in all things he will work for my own good.
which means one is not saved.
By disobedience, I mean an habitual sinful lifestyle, an habitual general walking in the darkness.
Yes, and I've also heard of some who finally did.
I would work with the person caught in the besetting sin to help them discover the root
(which always boils down to a false belief) which causes the sinful habit, then
to transform their mind by presenting the truth of Scriptures regarding this false belief, and
together in prayer with them beseech God to work into their heart His truth on the matter.
The meaning of the Greek word for repentance is a "change of mind."
Repentance is "that mighty change of heart and mind" from unbelief to belief (saving faith).
I would do the same as with besetting sin, addressed above.
"Confess" is "to agree with. "
Confession is to bring our hearts into agreement with God about our sin, in order to restore fellowship with him.
God's "judgment" of physical death does not mean eternal death.
God disciplines/chastens those he loves, and sometimes that discipline may be physical death
to keep them from further sin.
That in all things he will work for my own good.