Salvation?!

[forsha]

1 Tim 2:4, the all men in his elect family can be saved (delivered) by coming unto a knowledge of the truth, the saved in this verse is referring to a deliverance while they live here in this world. He is telling those who are already saved eternally that they can be delivered from fear and condemnation by understanding the truth.

 

[forsha]

All of us do commit sins that will separate us from a fellowship with God, but not keep us from living in heaven, because Jesus died to take away the sins of those that God has given to him. If we are among the elect of God, God looks upon as having no sin as far as eternal life is concerned.

 

[Jeff_56]

12 So too Yeshua suffered death outside the gate, in order to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Therefore, let us go out to him who is outside the camp and share his disgrace. 14 For we have no permanent city here; on the contrary, we seek the one to come. 15 Through him, therefore, let us offer God a sacrifice of praise continually.[d] For this is the natural product of lips that acknowledge his name.

16 But don’t forget doing good and sharing with others, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
OH OH OH OH OH OH OH ! OH MY! LIONS AND TIGERS AND BEARS!! (THE BIBLE recommends WORKS!!!)

2 Peter 3:9 - Bible Gateway
www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2 Peter 3:9
In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to
be lost. .... 9 The Lord is not slow to do what he has promised, as some think. .... 9
He isn't really being slow about his promised return, even though it sometimes ...

Romans 1:28 - Bible Gateway
www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Romans 1:28
‎28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless
minds rule over them. ... And so they do what they should not do. ..... 28 Since
they had no mind to recognize God, He turned them loose to follow the unseemly
...
he let their useless minds rule over them.

he let their useless minds rule over them.

he let their useless minds rule over them.

he let their useless minds rule over them.

he let their useless minds rule over them.

he let their useless minds rule over them.

he let their useless minds rule over them.


boy, he sure is picky.... just because they refused to even think about God,

 

[Butch5]

I hear two different sides. Some people say you can lose your Salvation, and some say you can't. Which one is it?!

Let the fallacies commence.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I hear two different sides. Some people say you can lose your Salvation, and some say you can't. Which one is it?!

Here is the thing in the scriptures that talk about eternal life and salvation you have two Greek words that have been used for belief. Pisteuo and echo; pisteuo means to continue to believe, and echo means a mental possession, assurance.
Used in the proper context then it means that as long as we continue to believe in Him we have assurance of eternal life coming to us. For it is a mental possession, and not an actual physical possession.
One can still faulter in their faith as the bible says all over the NT, and not end up with eternal life. Our Lord Jesus tells us that many will fall away, and talks about two groups who get deceived later in life or do to a hardship turn away from Him. They end up with no eternal life. Paul tells the Galatians they have been bewitched by false teaching to go back to being justified by the mosaic laws, and have fallen from Gods saving grace. Paul then gets on to Peter for letting this happen.
In Hebrews it tells us that if you continue in your willful sins without repenting from them and confessing future sins as 1 John says then you will not have eternal life. And then the biggest nail in the doctrine that one can not lose salvation, is both 1st and 2nd Timothy. Paul in both those books warns Timothy (another disciple) of things that can make him impure through sin again, and Paul says no impure person gets eternal life in Ephesians.
Some have been bewitched by a false doctrine that sins can not be imputed on a believer, and they are right when it comes to their past repented and confessed sins. But not when it comes to future sins for they still have to be confessed.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

If you believe that God accomplishes his will, and you think that he wants all mankind to be saved eternally, then why do the scriptures tell us that there are some of mankind that will not be saved eternally?

Because it is up to each man , once drawn and called, to actually believe. God doesn't force Himself on anyone. In the end, each has a choice, though that choice has to be enabled by the divine revelation of the truth by the Holy Spirit. No man can seek God on his own, but God seeks every man. Not every man responds.

 

[SeaBass]

1 Tim 2:4, the all men in his elect family can be saved (delivered) by coming unto a knowledge of the truth, the saved in this verse is referring to a deliverance while they live here in this world. He is telling those who are already saved eternally that they can be delivered from fear and condemnation by understanding the truth.

The elect are the ones saved who already have a knowledge of the truth so how is it that the elect "can" be saved by coming into a knowledge of the truth?

 

[forsha]

Not possible.

back with scripture please.

 

[forsha]

The elect are the ones saved who already have a knowledge of the truth so how is it that the elect "can" be saved by coming into a knowledge of the truth?

Not all of the elect have a knowledge of the truth. Rom 10:2- For I bear them record (talking about Israel) that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

 

[SeaBass]

Not all of the elect have a knowledge of the truth. Rom 10:2- For I bear them record (talking about Israel) that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

How is it possible that a person who is elect, a Christian, a child of God NOT have a knowledge of the truth?

In other words, how can one be saved being ignorant of the truth?

Rom 10:1-3 Paul is talking about fleshly Jews that had a zeal but not according to knowledge. Fleshly Jews are not God's elect but the group "Christian" is God's elect. In Rom 11 Paul writes about how fleshly Israel was cast off. So if fleshly Jews want to be saved/elect then they must 'submit to the righteousness of God", Rom 10:3 which they refused to do for the most part.

 

[forsha]

Because it is up to each man , once drawn and called, to actually believe. God doesn't force Himself on anyone. In the end, each has a choice, though that choice has to be enabled by the divine revelation of the truth by the Holy Spirit. No man can seek God on his own, but God seeks every man. Not every man responds.

The carnal man can not respond to God's drawing, or calling, unless he first is reborn of the Spirit of God, so every man that responds is already saved eternally (1 Cor 2:9-16).

 

[newbirth]

If you truly pray in your heart for God to save you and confess that Jesus is Lord and died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. If you believe completely in that statement and want to change, then that is your moment of grace and salvation. It can not be lost. When you stand before God you will be shown how you sinned and how if you hadn't accepted Jesus as Savior and allowed the Holy spirit into your heart you would be numbered among the sinners and casted into hell. However, the only way for you to die is for you deny the Holy spirit and be like the servant that gets drunk and beats his fellow servants and denies the existence of his Master: God. You would have to cast away your salvation, stop up your ears, blind your eyes and harden your heart to God pleas for you to return. Even then I have faith that God is more powerful then man and can save who ever He wants. Once you have accepted Jesus as your Shepard, then no one entrusted to him can be lost. We follow the law and live our lives as a testimony to God's love not for our own salvation but through the light we shine others may find the path of salvation that leads to Christ Jesus. Our fruit and actions stems from the living water that God has poured into our lives. His love over flows and we offer it to others.

At least that is how I have come to think about it. Salvation is eternal once you accept it fully and offer your body and life as a living sacrifice to God and become disciples of Christ. The devil will try and still your testimony and keep you from becoming a warrior for Christ. Demons will try and keep you from seeing the truth because if you saw you would be able to cast them out and defeat them. Don't listen to the voices of darkness. Read your Bible and listen to God's truth. remember God's love and justice.

where is your scripture to back your claim.....I see no repentance ...no baptism ...no remission of sins and no gift of the HS.....yet you claim salvation...
[h=1]Acts 2:38-39King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[forsha]

How is it possible that a person who is elect, a Christian, a child of God NOT have a knowledge of the truth?

In other words, how can one be saved being ignorant of the truth?

Rom 10:1-3 Paul is talking about fleshly Jews that had a zeal but not according to knowledge. Fleshly Jews are not God's elect but the group "Christian" is God's elect. In Rom 11 Paul writes about how fleshly Israel was cast off. So if fleshly Jews want to be saved/elect then they must 'submit to the righteousness of God", Rom 10:3 which they refused to do for the most part.

If a person has a zeal toward God, then he is a child of God born of the Spirit. The carnal man before he is born again does not and can not have a zeal toward God (1 Cor 2:9-14).

 

[forsha]

The elect are the ones saved who already have a knowledge of the truth so how is it that the elect "can" be saved by coming into a knowledge of the truth?

I believe that you are of the elect, but I don't believe that you have the complete knowledge of the truth. If the Holy Spirit ever brings you to a knowledge, it would be a deliverance (salvation) to you by delivering you from believing a false doctrine.

 

[SeaBass]

I believe that you are of the elect, but I don't believe that you have the complete knowledge of the truth. If the Holy Spirit ever brings you to a knowledge, it would be a deliverance (salvation) to you by delivering you from believing a false doctrine.

Anyone that chooses can be of the elect/Christian those chooses to be. Being elect/Christian is not a choice God makes for man.

1Pet 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."


1 Pet 1:2---------Spirit+++++++++obedience>>>>>>>>>>>>>elect
Jn 3:5------------Spirit+++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13--------Spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body

Those that choose to obey the gospel by being water baptized become part of the elect/a Christian. "Obedience" of 1 Pet 1:2 shows one has a role in his one salvation, role in becoming part of the elect.

 

[SeaBass]

If a person has a zeal toward God, then he is a child of God born of the Spirit. The carnal man before he is born again does not and can not have a zeal toward God (1 Cor 2:9-14).

Rom 10:1-3 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

These Jews had a zeal for God...but lost.

 

[forsha]

Because it is up to each man , once drawn and called, to actually believe. God doesn't force Himself on anyone. In the end, each has a choice, though that choice has to be enabled by the divine revelation of the truth by the Holy Spirit. No man can seek God on his own, but God seeks every man. Not every man responds.

The carnal man, void of the Spirit (not born again) will never seek spiritual things, and indeed CANNOT know spiritual things according to 1cor 2:9-14. This leaves it all up to God's grace and not man's accepting it.

 

[forsha]

you can lose it by denying Christ and go back to the world and act like the world. But also no one can take it away because it is a gift of God and only you make the choice to have it or not.....

John 6:37-40, Jesus died for the sins of those that God gave him and none of them will be lost eternally. Man can and does commit sins that separates him from a fellowship with God, but he cannot separate himself from the eternal security of Christ's shed blood on the cross.

 

[forsha]

How is it possible that a person who is elect, a Christian, a child of God NOT have a knowledge of the truth?

In other words, how can one be saved being ignorant of the truth?

Rom 10:1-3 Paul is talking about fleshly Jews that had a zeal but not according to knowledge. Fleshly Jews are not God's elect but the group "Christian" is God's elect. In Rom 11 Paul writes about how fleshly Israel was cast off. So if fleshly Jews want to be saved/elect then they must 'submit to the righteousness of God", Rom 10:3 which they refused to do for the most part.

If a person has a zeal toward God, then he is already saved eternally (1 Cor 2:9-14). The carnal man cannot have a zeal toward God.

 

[forsha]

Anyone that chooses can be of the elect/Christian those chooses to be. Being elect/Christian is not a choice God makes for man.

1Pet 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."


1 Pet 1:2---------Spirit+++++++++obedience>>>>>>>>>>>>>elect
Jn 3:5------------Spirit+++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13--------Spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body

Those that choose to obey the gospel by being water baptized become part of the elect/a Christian. "Obedience" of 1 Pet 1:2 shows one has a role in his one salvation, role in becoming part of the elect.

When the scriptures state the elect of God, God is doing the electing, not man. Rom 9:9-11 - God brought this to our attention to show us that man does not do the electing, but God. Did Jacob or Esau have a choice? In order for the scriptures to not contradict each other, you have to understand that salvation is a deliverance, and most of the salvation scriptures are pertaining to deliverances we receive here on this earth. God's elect are through Jacob and God even changed Jacob's name to Israel (Gen 32:28). Israel is often used in the new testament as representing God's elect people. These Jews that had a zeal of God, but not knowledge, did not lose their eternal salvation, but did lose their relationship with God. If they would repent of going about by their own knowledge and accepting God's knowledge, then they would be saved (delivered) from the sin of not acknowledging God's knowledge.