Salvation?!

[SeaBass]

When the scriptures state the elect of God, God is doing the electing, not man. Rom 9:9-11 - God brought this to our attention to show us that man does not do the electing, but God. Did Jacob or Esau have a choice? In order for the scriptures to not contradict each other, you have to understand that salvation is a deliverance, and most of the salvation scriptures are pertaining to deliverances we receive here on this earth. God's elect are through Jacob and God even changed Jacob's name to Israel (Gen 32:28). Israel is often used in the new testament as representing God's elect people. These Jews that had a zeal of God, but not knowledge, did not lose their eternal salvation, but did lose their relationship with God. If they would repent of going about by their own knowledge and accepting God's knowledge, then they would be saved (delivered) from the sin of not acknowledging God's knowledge.

God predetermined that the group called "Christian" will be the elect. Men choose to obey the gospel and become a part of the elect,a Christian. God does not decide for men which men will be elect/Christian and which men will be lost for that idea puts culpability upon God.

In Rom 9, Paul speaking about Jacob and Esau has nothing to do with their (or our) personal salvation. Paul was using Esau (Edom) and Jacob (Israel) to prove to the Jews that just because they are the physical descendants of Abraham does not mean God must choose them to salvation. Paul reminds them that Edom was as much a direct descendant of Abraham/Issac as Israel but Edom was not chosen so the Jews have no argument thinking God must choose them.

Ironically Rom 9 refutes Calvinistic predestination for in the OT the Jews were God's chosen, His elect but in Romans chapters 9, 10, 11 we read God cast that Jewish elect off and they were lost (Rom 10:1) and God also grafted in the once non-elect Gentiles. God made "Christians" His elect and both Jew and Gentile can become a Christian.

 

[SeaBass]

If a person has a zeal toward God, then he is already saved eternally (1 Cor 2:9-14). The carnal man cannot have a zeal toward God.

Again, Rom 10:1-3 those Jews had a zeal for God but were lost.

1 Cor 2 does not teach the carnal man cannot understand the things of God, but that the carnal man, unlike the spiritual man, was not given miraculous inspiration from God to receive revelatory words from the Holy Spirit as the inspired writers of the bible were given. God did not select the carnal men to have miraculous inspiration as He did with the apostles.

1 Cor 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The carnal man can never understand God's wisdom with his carnal philosophies for God can be understood through His revealed word. But nowhere does Paul imply the carnal man can never understand the things of God. The carnal man of his own will chooses to "receiveth not". The carnal man can understand John 3:16 but chooses to not to believe it, he hears it, understands it but chooses to "receive not".

Mt 21:45 "When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them."

These chief priests and Pharisees were lost, carnal men and yet they could understand Jesus' words that He spoke, they simply choose of their own will not to believe those words, not to receive them for Jesus' word were foolishness unto them.

Paul preached Christ to many people and they understood what Paul was saying but they would not receive his words for to them it was foolishness, Acts 22:1-22...verse 22 " And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live." How could they be angry and upset with Paul and consider his words as "foolish" if they could not understand what he was saying?

Those Jews in Acts 2 Peter preached to were lost men but they could hear, understand Peter's words and some chose to believe and obey Acts 2:38,

 

[forsha]

God predetermined that the group called "Christian" will be the elect. Men choose to obey the gospel and become a part of the elect,a Christian. God does not decide for men which men will be elect/Christian and which men will be lost for that idea puts culpability upon God.

In Rom 9, Paul speaking about Jacob and Esau has nothing to do with their (or our) personal salvation. Paul was using Esau (Edom) and Jacob (Israel) to prove to the Jews that just because they are the physical descendants of Abraham does not mean God must choose them to salvation. Paul reminds them that Edom was as much a direct descendant of Abraham/Issac as Israel but Edom was not chosen so the Jews have no argument thinking God must choose them.

Ironically Rom 9 refutes Calvinistic predestination for in the OT the Jews were God's chosen, His elect but in Romans chapters 9, 10, 11 we read God cast that Jewish elect off and they were lost (Rom 10:1) and God also grafted in the once non-elect Gentiles. God made "Christians" His elect and both Jew and Gentile can become a Christian.

God gives man a free will to choose how he lives his life here on earth, but the carnal man, void of the Spirit, cannot choose anything that is of a spiritual nature. The carnal man will not make a choice to serve God until he first is born of the Spirit.