Sanctification
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S
I agree 100%. I would just like to say that I believe from my study of the Bible that the way to do this is to put our complete focus and attention on Jesus and spiritual truths. I see that when we put too much attention on our sins and shortcomings that we simply magnify them to the point of guilt and sometimes even despair.
In other words the best way to overcome sins is to have our minds and attention completely focused on Jesus, so much that we don't have any opportunity to fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
If we could just fully embrace the new creation that we have become in Jesus, we would act like the new creation we truly have become.
In other words the best way to overcome sins is to have our minds and attention completely focused on Jesus, so much that we don't have any opportunity to fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
If we could just fully embrace the new creation that we have become in Jesus, we would act like the new creation we truly have become.
K
Yes there is a time for reproving and rebuking others and that is important, however some need to understand that when one reproves or rebukes another that is not condemning them. If it is condemning then it is not the proper way of reproving and rebuking, but then again one must learn the difference between the two before making that call.
Yes there is worldly sorrow and that is when a person is just saying sorry to try and get out of punishment.
Godly sorrow is when one is truly sorry for what they have done and turn away from it to not do it any more, which is why Jesus said produce fruit kept with repentance. Meaning if you are truly sorry then your actions that follow by not committing it will show you were.
Yes there is worldly sorrow and that is when a person is just saying sorry to try and get out of punishment.
Godly sorrow is when one is truly sorry for what they have done and turn away from it to not do it any more, which is why Jesus said produce fruit kept with repentance. Meaning if you are truly sorry then your actions that follow by not committing it will show you were.
S
I certainly didn't mean that we shouldn't examine ourselves or be sorry for our sins( repent). I was speaking more along the lines of not letting Satan tell us we are unworthy of God's promises or grace because of our sins. I'm speaking of the lie that we must first clean up ourselves before God accepts us. The way to sanctification is by embracing all that Jesus is and all he has made us to be, not by us working on ourselves without His help.
Thanks for the input that gave me the opportunity to clarify what I am talking about.
Thanks for the input that gave me the opportunity to clarify what I am talking about.
That implies that one can be a new creation who has simply not "embraced" it yet and thus is still in service of the lusts of the flesh.
This problem of viewing "salvation" or viewing the "new creation" as an abstract disconnected concept is so pervasive in the minds of so many.
The only reason people believe such a thing is because they lack any discernment of what a real repentance means.
Godly sorrow working a repentance unto salvation necessitates the death of the old man whereby the temptation (ie. lusts of the flesh) is crucified once and for all. A "new creation in Christ" is a LIVING SACRIFICE LIVING UNTO GOD.
There is no disconnect between literal conduct and whom one is.
A servant of sin serves sin.
A child of God serves God.
There is no such thing as a child of God serving sin. The only reason purpose of upholding such a disconnect between conduct and whom one belongs to is to argue in favour of the ongoing engagement of known evil and wanting to be forgiven at the same time. God's mercy does not work like that, one has to truly repent of sin and that means all known evil is forsaken once and for all.
One cannot obey Satan and be a child of God. We belong to whom we actually serve.
This problem of viewing "salvation" or viewing the "new creation" as an abstract disconnected concept is so pervasive in the minds of so many.
The only reason people believe such a thing is because they lack any discernment of what a real repentance means.
Godly sorrow working a repentance unto salvation necessitates the death of the old man whereby the temptation (ie. lusts of the flesh) is crucified once and for all. A "new creation in Christ" is a LIVING SACRIFICE LIVING UNTO GOD.
There is no disconnect between literal conduct and whom one is.
A servant of sin serves sin.
A child of God serves God.
There is no such thing as a child of God serving sin. The only reason purpose of upholding such a disconnect between conduct and whom one belongs to is to argue in favour of the ongoing engagement of known evil and wanting to be forgiven at the same time. God's mercy does not work like that, one has to truly repent of sin and that means all known evil is forsaken once and for all.
One cannot obey Satan and be a child of God. We belong to whom we actually serve.
V
Quite obviously that is the case. We alternately "put on" the new man, then revert to our "old wardrobe" and return to the dead man's clothes. Read Paul for understanding.
Not viewing salvation as the free gift that it is, and realizing that what it does is give us a choice we didn't have before -- walking in the flesh (the only choice we had previously) vs. walking in the Spirit -- leads to the grave error of uncertainty of our salvation, thinking we must do something to "keep it," which is impossible. If we could "keep it" we could have "attained it" without Christ to begin with.
Actually, that's the lack of discernment, that you don't understand what death means. Death is not a state of "not being." Death is a condition. It is a state of being. It is a realm. Consequently, never think of death as non-existence, never think of the old man as gone. "Death" is existence, but it is existence apart from God. It is conscious existence, able to function and move.
Those who are dead can, and do, will and act, The spiritually dead -- the lost among us -- function. They operate. They perform. But they do it all in a realm other than that of Light. They do it in the realm of darkness. It they whom Jesus speaks of in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.
This tells us that Death is quite functional. Death is actually quite dynamic and powerful. It is able to exist and move. And it has many characteristics. They are familiar to all of us: Fear, condemnation, a false knowledge of God. And more. These are all of the realm of death and darkness. They are very real, and they are all part of Death.
That is why our "old man" can be totally dead, yet exert such influence over us. The influence he exerts, through fear, condemnation, sin, and error, is death. Those influences are traits of death. Consequently, rather than indicate that our "old man" is still alive, all of the terrible traits of the "old man" are nothing more than proof that he is dead. The "old man" is simply acting the way a dead man acts.
We have had this backwards. We have thought that when our flesh won't behave, that our "old man" is alive. We think he has somehow been temporarily resurrected or something. So we say things like, "I must put my old man to death," etc. But this is not what is happening. When our flesh won't behave, it isn't the old man alive all over again.
No! He is once for all dead! Just as surely as Christ died. And he cannot be raised up out of the death of Christ! Rather, when the old man won't behave, or influences us with fear and darkness, it is his "deadness" manifesting itself. It is death residing in our old man, and it is simply acting like death acts.
Where does this leave us with regard to victory over him? Believe it or not, it leaves us with complete victory over him. How so? Because despite the fact that the old man of sin does not behave very well, and often makes it difficult for us to obey God, it is nevertheless a fact that he no longer has dominion over us! Through the resurrection of Christ, we have been given victory over him!
Here we see the essence of the change which has taken place within one who is born again. Before Christ, we were the "old man," completely bound to obey darkness and death. After Christ, we are a new creation. The "old man" cannot make us do anything. He no longer has dominion over us. We do not have to yield to him. We are free to walk with Jesus Christ.
But don't misunderstand. The old man is not changed. He is not redeemed. Neither is he gone from our presence. No. Not one place in Scripture does God ever say that the "old man" has been changed into a new creation. We are never told that God saves the old creation in Adam, and imparts to it the ability to obey God. But what does God say? He says that we are set free from the old man. In other words, through Christ, God severs the grip which the old man had upon us.
In Jesus Christ, we are born into a new realm, as a new creation. This is completely separate from the old realm, where the power of death and darkness can move. Therefore, the old man in Adam really has no power over us at all! He has no ability, as he did before Christ, to govern us.
Then why does he govern so many Christians? Because we don't believe the Truth just mentioned. Or, worse, don't want to believe it. We don't really believe the old man is dead in Christ. We don't believe his power is gone. And watch this very, very closely, reread it as many times as it takes for it to sink in: We believe he is alive, and that it is up to us to get victory over him. That is a lie directly from Satan. We believe this because the old man is still hanging around our necks. And we think that the influence which the realm of darkness exerts through him is evidence he is alive. It isn't. It is evidence of death. Just as it is evidenced in the lives of the unsaved around us!
Deception is the only power the enemy has over the Christian. Since the enemy has already been totally defeated by Christ, his only device is to deceive us into thinking he hasn't been defeated. But if we believe this lie, how can we possibly ever walk in Christ's victory? By definition, we will have denied it. We will spend our energy and faith trying to win a victory over an enemy who is already defeated!
There are many Truths in the Bible which are vital. But the foundation of Christianity is the most important. It states, clearly and unequivocally, that Jesus Christ has won all victory. He hasn't left any victories for us to win. That is the basis of all faith. It is the basis of walking in victory. Without this, we have no salvation by grace.
We cannot overcome.
We cannot grow.
We really have no access to God.
We must believe this Truth and grow to walk in it. Otherwise, the sin we commit as believers is committed because we walk in death that we have been delivered out of by the blood of Christ.
Not viewing salvation as the free gift that it is, and realizing that what it does is give us a choice we didn't have before -- walking in the flesh (the only choice we had previously) vs. walking in the Spirit -- leads to the grave error of uncertainty of our salvation, thinking we must do something to "keep it," which is impossible. If we could "keep it" we could have "attained it" without Christ to begin with.
Actually, that's the lack of discernment, that you don't understand what death means. Death is not a state of "not being." Death is a condition. It is a state of being. It is a realm. Consequently, never think of death as non-existence, never think of the old man as gone. "Death" is existence, but it is existence apart from God. It is conscious existence, able to function and move.
Those who are dead can, and do, will and act, The spiritually dead -- the lost among us -- function. They operate. They perform. But they do it all in a realm other than that of Light. They do it in the realm of darkness. It they whom Jesus speaks of in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.
This tells us that Death is quite functional. Death is actually quite dynamic and powerful. It is able to exist and move. And it has many characteristics. They are familiar to all of us: Fear, condemnation, a false knowledge of God. And more. These are all of the realm of death and darkness. They are very real, and they are all part of Death.
That is why our "old man" can be totally dead, yet exert such influence over us. The influence he exerts, through fear, condemnation, sin, and error, is death. Those influences are traits of death. Consequently, rather than indicate that our "old man" is still alive, all of the terrible traits of the "old man" are nothing more than proof that he is dead. The "old man" is simply acting the way a dead man acts.
We have had this backwards. We have thought that when our flesh won't behave, that our "old man" is alive. We think he has somehow been temporarily resurrected or something. So we say things like, "I must put my old man to death," etc. But this is not what is happening. When our flesh won't behave, it isn't the old man alive all over again.
No! He is once for all dead! Just as surely as Christ died. And he cannot be raised up out of the death of Christ! Rather, when the old man won't behave, or influences us with fear and darkness, it is his "deadness" manifesting itself. It is death residing in our old man, and it is simply acting like death acts.
Where does this leave us with regard to victory over him? Believe it or not, it leaves us with complete victory over him. How so? Because despite the fact that the old man of sin does not behave very well, and often makes it difficult for us to obey God, it is nevertheless a fact that he no longer has dominion over us! Through the resurrection of Christ, we have been given victory over him!
Romans 6, NASB
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Here we see the essence of the change which has taken place within one who is born again. Before Christ, we were the "old man," completely bound to obey darkness and death. After Christ, we are a new creation. The "old man" cannot make us do anything. He no longer has dominion over us. We do not have to yield to him. We are free to walk with Jesus Christ.
But don't misunderstand. The old man is not changed. He is not redeemed. Neither is he gone from our presence. No. Not one place in Scripture does God ever say that the "old man" has been changed into a new creation. We are never told that God saves the old creation in Adam, and imparts to it the ability to obey God. But what does God say? He says that we are set free from the old man. In other words, through Christ, God severs the grip which the old man had upon us.
In Jesus Christ, we are born into a new realm, as a new creation. This is completely separate from the old realm, where the power of death and darkness can move. Therefore, the old man in Adam really has no power over us at all! He has no ability, as he did before Christ, to govern us.
Then why does he govern so many Christians? Because we don't believe the Truth just mentioned. Or, worse, don't want to believe it. We don't really believe the old man is dead in Christ. We don't believe his power is gone. And watch this very, very closely, reread it as many times as it takes for it to sink in: We believe he is alive, and that it is up to us to get victory over him. That is a lie directly from Satan. We believe this because the old man is still hanging around our necks. And we think that the influence which the realm of darkness exerts through him is evidence he is alive. It isn't. It is evidence of death. Just as it is evidenced in the lives of the unsaved around us!
Deception is the only power the enemy has over the Christian. Since the enemy has already been totally defeated by Christ, his only device is to deceive us into thinking he hasn't been defeated. But if we believe this lie, how can we possibly ever walk in Christ's victory? By definition, we will have denied it. We will spend our energy and faith trying to win a victory over an enemy who is already defeated!
There are many Truths in the Bible which are vital. But the foundation of Christianity is the most important. It states, clearly and unequivocally, that Jesus Christ has won all victory. He hasn't left any victories for us to win. That is the basis of all faith. It is the basis of walking in victory. Without this, we have no salvation by grace.
We cannot overcome.
We cannot grow.
We really have no access to God.
We must believe this Truth and grow to walk in it. Otherwise, the sin we commit as believers is committed because we walk in death that we have been delivered out of by the blood of Christ.
Genuine repentance necessitates a FORSAKING of all known sin. One does not merely "feel sorry" and continue to engage in wickedness. That is ""worldly sorrow unto death" because the "sinning unto death" NEVER ceased. The wages of sin is death and the mercy of God does not undo that.
We are only worthy so far as we FOLLOW the instructions of Jesus and that means SELF DENIAL. It is not self denial to continue in the service of sin. The sin has to stop.
Mat_10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It is written that...
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
All people are unworthy in the context that we have sinned against God and that there is not a thing we can do too undo that. The forgiveness God offers is purely by His good grace, yet that does not mean that such mercy is without conditions.
God is willing to forgive us our sin if we will both confess those sins and forsake those sins. That means we are to confess our rebellion to God and then CEASE from that rebellion. If that does not happen then there was no repentance.
Repentance is not a confession of sinfulness. Repentance involves a forsaking of rebellion to God because one's mind truly changes and aligns with the righteousness of God.
If one is still engaged in wickedness then that one has not been "made into anything." Trusting in some positional standing and then waiting to be changed is pure deception.
Transformation is the result of YIELDING WHOLEHEARTEDLY TO GOD whereby the POWER OF GOD WORKS WITHIN US and the LOVE OF GOD IS SHED ABROAD IN OUR HEARTS. This does not happen without a godly sorrow working a genuine repentance. The heart of an individual must RECEIVE (ie. not be in rebellion to) THE IMPLANTED WORD within. It is through the reception of the leading of God within our hearts that we are totally transformed/regenerated. We are born again unto the Spirit as the divine influence of God works through our entire being.
Satan has deceived a multitude of people, through his theologians, that salvation is premised on a mere TRUST IN JESUS whereby NOTHING actually happens. People still serve sin and then argue in favour of serving sin because in their mind they believe that they cannot help it. Thus they wait on God to do some magic in the future, but in the meantime they "trust in Jesus."
Don't fall for it.
Thanks for the input that gave me the opportunity to clarify what I am talking about.[/QUOTE]
We are only worthy so far as we FOLLOW the instructions of Jesus and that means SELF DENIAL. It is not self denial to continue in the service of sin. The sin has to stop.
Mat_10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It is written that...
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
All people are unworthy in the context that we have sinned against God and that there is not a thing we can do too undo that. The forgiveness God offers is purely by His good grace, yet that does not mean that such mercy is without conditions.
God is willing to forgive us our sin if we will both confess those sins and forsake those sins. That means we are to confess our rebellion to God and then CEASE from that rebellion. If that does not happen then there was no repentance.
Repentance is not a confession of sinfulness. Repentance involves a forsaking of rebellion to God because one's mind truly changes and aligns with the righteousness of God.
If one is still engaged in wickedness then that one has not been "made into anything." Trusting in some positional standing and then waiting to be changed is pure deception.
Transformation is the result of YIELDING WHOLEHEARTEDLY TO GOD whereby the POWER OF GOD WORKS WITHIN US and the LOVE OF GOD IS SHED ABROAD IN OUR HEARTS. This does not happen without a godly sorrow working a genuine repentance. The heart of an individual must RECEIVE (ie. not be in rebellion to) THE IMPLANTED WORD within. It is through the reception of the leading of God within our hearts that we are totally transformed/regenerated. We are born again unto the Spirit as the divine influence of God works through our entire being.
Satan has deceived a multitude of people, through his theologians, that salvation is premised on a mere TRUST IN JESUS whereby NOTHING actually happens. People still serve sin and then argue in favour of serving sin because in their mind they believe that they cannot help it. Thus they wait on God to do some magic in the future, but in the meantime they "trust in Jesus."
Don't fall for it.
Thanks for the input that gave me the opportunity to clarify what I am talking about.[/QUOTE]
No I am not. I am not saying a Christian "cannot" sin in the context of not having the ability to do so. Sinning against God involves the exercise of the will and we are free to exercise our will unto righteousness or exercise our will to unrighteousness.
What I am saying is that one cannot exercise their will unto unrighteousness and claim to be a Christian.
There is no such thing as "being something" which one can either embrace or not embrace. Who we are is related to whom we serve.
If we serve evil then we are evil.
If we serve righteousness then we are righteous.
Paul wrote...
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If one is not WALKING after the Spirit whereby true righteousness is fulfilled inwardly then one is not a child of God.
There is only "no condemnation" upon those whom WALK after the Spirit, a WALK that is a result of a true repentance experience whereby the heart has yielded to God whereby one is quickened (made alive) by the literal power of God (God's grace quickens us to life).
What I am saying is that one cannot exercise their will unto unrighteousness and claim to be a Christian.
There is no such thing as "being something" which one can either embrace or not embrace. Who we are is related to whom we serve.
If we serve evil then we are evil.
If we serve righteousness then we are righteous.
Paul wrote...
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If one is not WALKING after the Spirit whereby true righteousness is fulfilled inwardly then one is not a child of God.
There is only "no condemnation" upon those whom WALK after the Spirit, a WALK that is a result of a true repentance experience whereby the heart has yielded to God whereby one is quickened (made alive) by the literal power of God (God's grace quickens us to life).
K
Okay, which is why I asked it in question form because I know of a lot on here that do not even read totally what another has posted and just continue to make the same baseless false allegations against them.
The bible however does make it clear that believers in Chris will not continue in willful deliberate habitual sin/s !!!
The sin everyday all day philosophy that is going around right now is a very bad teaching that in its own way condones sin, even if those who speak on it deny that is what they are saying.
Even Apostle Paul warned that we can not continue to sin since we are under grace, and told us what would happen if we do and it is not eternal life that we will receive.
The bible however does make it clear that believers in Chris will not continue in willful deliberate habitual sin/s !!!
The sin everyday all day philosophy that is going around right now is a very bad teaching that in its own way condones sin, even if those who speak on it deny that is what they are saying.
Even Apostle Paul warned that we can not continue to sin since we are under grace, and told us what would happen if we do and it is not eternal life that we will receive.
The above is the perfect example of deception in action.
Modern Christianity, in general, teaches that the New Birth is PURELY POSITIONAL and thus any ACTUAL MANIFESTATION is disconnected. Then, with this disconnect in mind, it can be portrayed that a Christian, who has been born again, can in fact be engaged in wickedness simply because they do not "believe that they have been made new."
Satan has convinced people to adopt a mindset that they can be "saved/set free" and at the same time be "unsaved/enslaved."
Salvation has been redefined, in their minds, to being some abstract concept or notion. This abstract concept or notion is premised purely on this invention of "Jesus paying the price owed" (which is not in the Bible).
Our old man is only dead in Christ if we have crucified the flesh in repentance whereby we no longer SERVE sin.
The sin service CEASES with the death of the old man. Ongoing sin service is proof positive that the old man was never put to death. There is nothing abstract about it.
Modern Christianity, in general, teaches that the New Birth is PURELY POSITIONAL and thus any ACTUAL MANIFESTATION is disconnected. Then, with this disconnect in mind, it can be portrayed that a Christian, who has been born again, can in fact be engaged in wickedness simply because they do not "believe that they have been made new."
Satan has convinced people to adopt a mindset that they can be "saved/set free" and at the same time be "unsaved/enslaved."
Salvation has been redefined, in their minds, to being some abstract concept or notion. This abstract concept or notion is premised purely on this invention of "Jesus paying the price owed" (which is not in the Bible).
Our old man is only dead in Christ if we have crucified the flesh in repentance whereby we no longer SERVE sin.
The sin service CEASES with the death of the old man. Ongoing sin service is proof positive that the old man was never put to death. There is nothing abstract about it.