Satan the Scapegoat

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J

JoelG

Guest
#1
What do we really know about Satan? During a bible discussion at church, the topic was on bad spirits, demons and such. Teacher said that the Devil was an enemy of God. I asked if Satan was our enemy also. Teacher said, yes.
My response was that God tells us to love our enemies. The room got very quite. As I see it, God used Satan. The plan of salvation requires Satan to play his part beginning with the Garden of Eden.
Who is this Satan. Satan knows everything. Why would he rebel knowing there is a Hell to go to.
Was hell invented already when he rebelled.
Adam sinned without the devil guiding him. Which means we can not blame the devil for all our sins.
Some sins we cause upon ourselves.
Our life is merely a theater with all the right characters in place.
Satan is going to hell and we are suppose to hate a condemned man ( or whatever he is). Besides, the devil can not harm you if you are wearing the armor of Christ.
They say to be in God's presence is the glory of heaven. Well Satan was there and he did not think so.
I guess when you are that far up the latter, you see things different.
What's wrong with this picture?
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#2
Your questions display a complete lack of knowledge regarding who Satan is, his history as found in the Bible, who God is, and what "rebellion" really means. We can't begin to set your perceptions aright where you're at right now.

Suffice to say, we know a lot about Satan, and I'd say the reason your class got "very quiet" with your statement that we "are to love our enemies" in referencing Satan is because you don't know anything about him. It is dangerous to speak from little knowledge.

Satan rebelled because he thought he was "more fair" -- beautiful, intelligent, etc. -- than God. He wanted the power of God without the responsibility of giving His creation unquestioned, unconditional love. And you are wrong about Adam sinning without Satan guiding him. Satan (the serpent) deceived Eve, but Adam willing followed. So our sins are the direct result of Satan's rebellion, Eve's deception, and Adam's sin.

No, hell wasn't created before Satan rebelled. It was created because of the rebellion. Some of what you have said is correct, but you have a great deal to learn before you can adequately participate in the discussion you want to have.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#3
OH dear, It clearly shows you have no idea. Viligant Warrior has been spot on , so I wont repeat it, instead I will just second that post.

I will add this though, Satan can hurt us and attack us physically and spiritually, not forgetting deceiving us. Yes we need the armour of God, but its not going to stop attacks, just help us stopping them and identifying the enemy when it is at work.

Satan should not be mocked or ridiculed, that is dangerous, something modern Christians seem to be in habit of doing, you do not poke a bear with a stick and laugh, so do not do the same with Satan.
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
196
6
18
#4
Who is this Satan. Satan knows everything. Why would he rebel knowing there is a Hell to go to.
Was hell invented already when he rebelled.
Adam sinned without the devil guiding him. Which means we can not blame the devil for all our sins.
Some sins we cause upon ourselves.
Our life is merely a theater with all the right characters in place.
Satan is going to hell and we are suppose to hate a condemned man ( or whatever he is). Besides, the devil can not harm you if you are wearing the armor of Christ.
They say to be in God's presence is the glory of heaven. Well Satan was there and he did not think so.
I guess when you are that far up the latter, you see things different.
What's wrong with this picture?
I disagree with your assertion that Satan knows everything. He is the father of lies who will say or do ANYTHING that will lead people away from God, simply out of jealousy, hatred, and spite.

Our life is merely a theater with all the right characters in place.
No, our lives are not predetermined. God may have seen our end at its beginning but he gave us the power to make our own choices in life. We can either choose to love God or choose to thumb our nose at Him and face the consequences.
 
Jun 23, 2015
1,990
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#5
Your questions display a complete lack of knowledge regarding who Satan is, his history as found in the Bible, who God is, and what "rebellion" really means. We can't begin to set your perceptions aright where you're at right now.

Suffice to say, we know a lot about Satan, and I'd say the reason your class got "very quiet" with your statement that we "are to love our enemies" in referencing Satan is because you don't know anything about him. It is dangerous to speak from little knowledge.

Satan rebelled because he thought he was "more fair" -- beautiful, intelligent, etc. -- than God. He wanted the power of God without the responsibility of giving His creation unquestioned, unconditional love. And you are wrong about Adam sinning without Satan guiding him. Satan (the serpent) deceived Eve, but Adam willing followed. So our sins are the direct result of Satan's rebellion, Eve's deception, and Adam's sin.

No, hell wasn't created before Satan rebelled. It was created because of the rebellion. Some of what you have said is correct, but you have a great deal to learn before you can adequately participate in the discussion you want to have.


And Ill add: Satan does NOT know everything! God is the only one who is all knowing! God hates evil and satan is nothing but evil. Yes, we hate evil and all the prince of lies puts forth. Satan roams around to kill,steal, and destroy because he is rebelling against God. Satan hates all who come to Christ. Satan hates anything that is holy and good.

It seems that a person who diminishes satan and his minions is setting himself up for some drastic demonic oppression. God is greater but satan has surely deceived the mind of a person who almost feels sorry for a demon. A person who has deluded himself into thinking he is wearing the full armor when his mind cannot even hate evil as God hates evil is a lost person indeed. If we are not renewing our minds through Gods word can we deflect those fiery darts? We cant! People perish for lack of knowledge.

Satan become full of pride. That is why he was cast out!

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

 
Dec 17, 2014
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#6
By the way that I live my life I poke satan in the butt!!!!

In my opinion you should NEVER fear satan or ANY TYRANNY for your beliefs ......
 
Jun 23, 2015
1,990
37
0
#7
By the way that I live my life I poke satan in the butt!!!!

In my opinion you should NEVER fear satan or ANY TYRANNY for your beliefs ......

Nobody is saying that anyone should fear satan. But you must know your enemy and only through the power of the Holy Spirit in us and the sword of the spirit can we overcome the fiery darts.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,920
1,591
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#8
Satan is a created being. By definition, a created being cannot know everything.

Given who and what God is, it is an impossibility for Him to create a being with the attribute of omniscience.

"Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary, the devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." - 1 Peter 5:8
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#9
What do we really know about Satan?

Actually not all that much about his beginnings. You'll be told lot on here, but it is simply misrepresentation of Scriptures about the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14) and the King of Tyre (Ezekiel 28).

All we really know from the Old Testament is that he is the accuser of God's people, and that he led mankind astray.

During a bible discussion at church, the topic was on bad spirits, demons and such. Teacher said that the Devil was an enemy of God. I asked if Satan was our enemy also. Teacher said, yes.
My response was that God tells us to love our enemies. The room got very quiet.
It would. It was human enemies that God told us to love, not supernatural beings at direct enmity with God.

As I see it, God used Satan. The plan of salvation requires Satan to play his part beginning with the Garden of Eden.
Very true. God controlled Satan for His purposes.

Who is this Satan. Satan knows everything. Why would he rebel knowing there is a Hell to go to.
Satan does not know everything. He has made a mess of lot of things. He made a mistake in ensuring that Jesus went to the cross. But the cross was his downfall. He is also not omnipresent.

Was hell invented already when he rebelled
.

No Jesus said that it was made for the Devil and his angels.

Adam sinned without the devil guiding him. Which means we can not blame the devil for all our sins.
Partially true. Although he sinned because Satan had misled Eve.
Some sins we cause upon ourselves.
True. A man can sin when he is led astray by his own lusts and enticed. We cannot always blame Satan. He just makes it worse and is especially at war with Christians.

Our life is merely a theater with all the right characters in place.
Lol you've been reading Shakespeare. Life is very real and we are in the middle of it with Satan our enemy.


Satan is going to hell and we are suppose to hate a condemned man ( or whatever he is).
Yes because of what he is and does and desires to do.

Besides, the devil can not harm you if you are wearing the armor of Christ.
If you wear it perfectly like Jesus did that is true. But we do not wear it perfectly.

They say to be in God's presence is the glory of heaven. Well Satan was there and he did not think so.
I guess when you are that far up the ladder, you see things different.
What's wrong with this picture?
Satan was foolish enough to think that he could challenge God. He wanted more glory for himself. That was how he fell.

If you wonder at that, think of the total stupidity of Christians who disobey, knowing what God is, disobey God. Almost incomprehensible. But it happens.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
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#10
Satan cannot do any more than God allows.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#11
God is:

Omnipresent - everywhere Psalm 139:7-12; Col 1:17; John 8:58; 2 Chron. 2:6; Rev. 21:13

Omnipotent- all powerful Phil. 4:13; Exodus 32:11; Psalm 68:35; Matt. 22:29; Luke 22:69; Isa 40:26

Omniscient - knows everything Isa. 40:13-14, 28; Job 21:22; Romans 11:33-34 Psalm 147:4

Omnibenevolent - source of everything good John 15:13; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8,16.

Satan is not! I would advise you to read the Bible through a few times. Then maybe you will know more about the character of God, and how Satan stands in direct contrast to him.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
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#12
Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Passages on Satan/the devil:

http://www.openbible.info/topics/devil
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#14
Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Passages on Satan/the devil:

http://www.openbible.info/topics/devil

In fact, the whole verse is "Submit yourselves, then to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you." James 4:7

We resist Satan by walking closer to God and obeying him. Too many people leave off the first part of this verse, which is about God, and only quote the last part, and end up focusing on their ability to resist Satan.

It is not possible to resist Satan without the power of God to help us.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#15
Yes, just look at the number of people he allowed Satan to kill in order to test Job.
True, God allowed all of it in the testing of Job's faith.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#16
What verse states that Satan knows everything? He was the sum of all wisdom and perfect (complete) in the day he was created...NOTICE the word DAY he was created....no where does it say or imply that Satan knows everything......
 
G

Galahad

Guest
#17
By the way that I live my life I poke satan in the butt!!!!

In my opinion you should NEVER fear satan or ANY TYRANNY for your beliefs ......
Pe tester,
How are you living your life? Have you stopped to think that Satan may like you poking him in the butt! :eek:
 
J

JoelG

Guest
#18
You say that God is using the Devil for his plan. This sounds manipulative. You say this is not a theater. God is controlling the lights, sound, the amount of information he will give us and just about everything.
I don't believe Satan is the bad guy. He was chosen to be the bad guy and hated. Somebody had to play that part.

Going back to the beginning. Was not God the only presence, before the creation of heaven and earth? God was dwelling in nothing. Then he decided to make creatures, out there where ever that was.
No one knows what was the order of creation at that stage of the game. Somebody up there said, "Let us make man in our own image". So, there was a group of something saying that.
But then, somehow the devil forgot who he was and decided to rebel. That's like a little boy telling his father to get out of the house.
Yeah, I know how the story goes. I have read the bible, believe it or not. But I am a skeptic. I am here to learn something. Isn't this site a place to gain knowledge.
I post a little bit and I usually get attacked. And, I see others get attacked also. Didn't Jesus say, "forgive them father for they know not what they are doing". Well, the less you know the better you are. Not knowing the law is an excuse.
I just find it very strange how the Devil got picked for the bad guy. Every time I see a movie, there is always a hero and a bad guy. And, now in real live , same thing. Jesus the Hero and the Devil the villain. Isn't it a coincidence?
If God wanted us in heaven why would he just not place us there from the beginning. Jesus dieing for our sins, does not mean we are not still sinners. We are still sinners, and if allowed to, we would continue sinning even in heaven.
Why should I be afraid of the devil? What is he doing to harm us? Nothing. The only harm he did was when between him, God and Lot. We are a product of our environment. Starting with your parents, because they influenced you.
Name one thing the devil is doing to harm people. I can't think of any. Its people hurting people throughout the ages. Christians are being manipulated.
Is the Devil keeping me from learning what the bible says? I don't think so. When I read that a serpent talked , and I doubt that story; is it the devil the one who is clouding my mind. No, he is not.
I believe that the chemicals in our body makes us do what we do. If you have to much testosterone in your body, you may want to play more sports and chase women all the time. Chemicals react in your mind when you fall in love.
What is human nature and what are we blaming the devil for? I don't blame the devil if I sin. I know what I am doing. If you look for trouble you will find it.
When I stand back and look at Christianity I see so much confusion. People pick sides on every subject.

I don't belong on this site. I'll just assume I am going to Hell, and hope for hope for the best.

God, is not such a nice person. I read a book, "Hell is for real but I hate to admit it" by Brian Jones (a Pastor).
He says, that hell must be for real because, God has shown us that he can be stern. He kills. And, he don't make promises he don't keep. Name one good thing that God has done. This life has a real bad side to it. And, I do not blame the devil. Human needs and human nature makes us who we are. He has the power to create, and then he demands from his creation. We must live on faith and faith alone. the bible is a lot to swallow. I don't know about where you are at but around here. People carry a bible in one hand and a gun in the other. (Texas). Majority of people here are Catholic, and you know what they believe. And, if you are a catholic and crack the bible, you would probably change denomination. Where do you think you got the bible from?, the Catholics. So if, they are not right neither are you.

I don't sound christian but I am. I know as much as anyone out there, because nobody knows it all. Same book. There are Preachers who become atheist. And, then you have other groups like the Mormons and the JW's who live with there head in the bible and many disagree with them. Does the Pope know more than me, he prays to statues and celebrates Easter and Christmas with everyone else.

Well, I better stop. I want to keep it short.
 
S

shotgunner

Guest
#19
You say that God is using the Devil for his plan. This sounds manipulative. You say this is not a theater. God is controlling the lights, sound, the amount of information he will give us and just about everything.
I don't believe Satan is the bad guy. He was chosen to be the bad guy and hated. Somebody had to play that part.

Going back to the beginning. Was not God the only presence, before the creation of heaven and earth? God was dwelling in nothing. Then he decided to make creatures, out there where ever that was.
No one knows what was the order of creation at that stage of the game. Somebody up there said, "Let us make man in our own image". So, there was a group of something saying that.
But then, somehow the devil forgot who he was and decided to rebel. That's like a little boy telling his father to get out of the house.
Yeah, I know how the story goes. I have read the bible, believe it or not. But I am a skeptic. I am here to learn something. Isn't this site a place to gain knowledge.
I post a little bit and I usually get attacked. And, I see others get attacked also. Didn't Jesus say, "forgive them father for they know not what they are doing". Well, the less you know the better you are. Not knowing the law is an excuse.
I just find it very strange how the Devil got picked for the bad guy. Every time I see a movie, there is always a hero and a bad guy. And, now in real live , same thing. Jesus the Hero and the Devil the villain. Isn't it a coincidence?
If God wanted us in heaven why would he just not place us there from the beginning. Jesus dieing for our sins, does not mean we are not still sinners. We are still sinners, and if allowed to, we would continue sinning even in heaven.
Why should I be afraid of the devil? What is he doing to harm us? Nothing. The only harm he did was when between him, God and Lot. We are a product of our environment. Starting with your parents, because they influenced you.
Name one thing the devil is doing to harm people. I can't think of any. Its people hurting people throughout the ages. Christians are being manipulated.
Is the Devil keeping me from learning what the bible says? I don't think so. When I read that a serpent talked , and I doubt that story; is it the devil the one who is clouding my mind. No, he is not.
I believe that the chemicals in our body makes us do what we do. If you have to much testosterone in your body, you may want to play more sports and chase women all the time. Chemicals react in your mind when you fall in love.
What is human nature and what are we blaming the devil for? I don't blame the devil if I sin. I know what I am doing. If you look for trouble you will find it.
When I stand back and look at Christianity I see so much confusion. People pick sides on every subject.

I don't belong on this site. I'll just assume I am going to Hell, and hope for hope for the best.

God, is not such a nice person. I read a book, "Hell is for real but I hate to admit it" by Brian Jones (a Pastor).
He says, that hell must be for real because, God has shown us that he can be stern. He kills. And, he don't make promises he don't keep. Name one good thing that God has done. This life has a real bad side to it. And, I do not blame the devil. Human needs and human nature makes us who we are. He has the power to create, and then he demands from his creation. We must live on faith and faith alone. the bible is a lot to swallow. I don't know about where you are at but around here. People carry a bible in one hand and a gun in the other. (Texas). Majority of people here are Catholic, and you know what they believe. And, if you are a catholic and crack the bible, you would probably change denomination. Where do you think you got the bible from?, the Catholics. So if, they are not right neither are you.

I don't sound christian but I am. I know as much as anyone out there, because nobody knows it all. Same book. There are Preachers who become atheist. And, then you have other groups like the Mormons and the JW's who live with there head in the bible and many disagree with them. Does the Pope know more than me, he prays to statues and celebrates Easter and Christmas with everyone else.

Well, I better stop. I want to keep it short.
I'm sorry but you are not a Christian. I think you are deceiving yourself and being deceived. You need to turn your life over to God,to be born again. Being saved, being a Christian and being born again is more than just believing in God. It is a surrender of your life. You have to lay down your old life to receive the new birth. You clearly don't want to lay down your old life and you think you know more than and better than the Word of God teaches. Satan is your enemy and is out to kill ,steal and destroy and if you keep following him you will die, both physically and eternally.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#20
You say that God is using the Devil for his plan. This sounds manipulative. You say this is not a theater. God is controlling the lights, sound, the amount of information he will give us and just about everything.
I don't believe Satan is the bad guy. He was chosen to be the bad guy and hated. Somebody had to play that part.
Satan rebelled, which looks like free will to me. How does it not, to you?

If God wanted us in heaven why would he just not place us there from the beginning.
He is not into taking hostages. Love cannot be forced; one needs to have a choice in the matter. Long story short in other words, He wants people there who of their own volition choose to live according to His righteous standards.

Is the Devil keeping me from learning what the bible says? I don't think so. When I read that a serpent talked , and I doubt that story; is it the devil the one who is clouding my mind.
Animals have many ways of communicating. Do you read all of the Bible so literally?

I don't belong on this site. I'll just assume I am going to Hell, and hope for hope for the best.
Why believe hell exists if you reject everything else? That just doesn't add up.

God, is not such a nice person.
Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Read up on Him. He is the One you want to get to know. He is the One Who reconciles us to God. He is our mediator.

Where do you think you got the bible from?, the Catholics.
Scriptures have existed for a lot longer than the RCC has been around.

I don't sound christian but I am.
?

Well, I better stop. I want to keep it short.
Too late (LOL).