Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.
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1 Peter 3:21 YLT - ". . . also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ . . ."
This is referencing Spiritual Circumcision, the Circumcision of Christ.
This is referencing Spiritual Circumcision, the Circumcision of Christ.
when a person cannot discuss something without the attempt at belittling another and falsely accusing them as you seem inclined to do, it is wise to do the following:
Don't offend
Don't engage
Don't explain
Don't personalize
so I am just going to leave you to your uncomfortable way of conducting yourself
Don't offend
Don't engage
Don't explain
Don't personalize
so I am just going to leave you to your uncomfortable way of conducting yourself
Thank you for providing your definition of turning away from sins as "power to not commit them". This helps clarify where I'm being misunderstood at least. Personally, I regard repentance as turning toward God which, positionally, is turning away from sin and not so much as exerting the power to not commit them. Rather, one turns to God because one has no power, by faith in His grace to forgive and reveal the more excellent way for us. Is it that we can then 'excel' in not committing them or only that the way is inherently excellent is yet for me to completely work out.
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Well, I certainly believe repentance means "turning away".
But my point was, that we don't have the power to turn away from sin UNTIL we are born again and can avail that power through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I believe the repentance we need to have prior to regeneration, is an agreement with God that we are sinners, and that ONLY He, through the sacrificial death of His Son can save us, and very importantly, a "turning away" or repentance, of dead works to somehow attain salvation.
But my point was, that we don't have the power to turn away from sin UNTIL we are born again and can avail that power through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I believe the repentance we need to have prior to regeneration, is an agreement with God that we are sinners, and that ONLY He, through the sacrificial death of His Son can save us, and very importantly, a "turning away" or repentance, of dead works to somehow attain salvation.
I disagree.... we can certainly make the conscious decision to turn away from sin. Whether we can maintain that direction is certainly helped when we are saved.
There are "good" people all over the world who conciously have turned away from a sinful lifestyle. That does not mean they have been saved.
Repentance, turning away from sin, is required before one can accept the free gift.
There are "good" people all over the world who conciously have turned away from a sinful lifestyle. That does not mean they have been saved.
Repentance, turning away from sin, is required before one can accept the free gift.
The Spiritual Work of Christ is as follows:
1) Circumcision of the heart. This is the release of a person from the captivity of Satan, SO THAT, they can respond.
2) Repentance is granted. It is not chosen, but granted, and when it is granted, it will be exercised.
3) Jesus sends the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Those who receive this Spiritual Work are made Right with Christ the God, but they are not yet made Right with God the Father. This is where the physical Work of Christ comes into play. When a person is released from Satan's grasp, to do and think as he, the Devil desires, they can not only respond to the Spiritual Work of Christ, but they can then place their Faith into the Work of Christ upon the Cross. When such a person believes in the Power that raised Him from the dead, they are THEN made Right with the Father.
These things explain why Abraham is our Father of Faith. However, even Abraham was looking forward to Christ so that he, too, could put his Faith in the Risen Messiah.
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."
Now, if you're going to resort to name-calling and belittling my Spiritual status or placing me into some kind of box, please don't reply. I have no room for drama.
1) Circumcision of the heart. This is the release of a person from the captivity of Satan, SO THAT, they can respond.
2) Repentance is granted. It is not chosen, but granted, and when it is granted, it will be exercised.
3) Jesus sends the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Those who receive this Spiritual Work are made Right with Christ the God, but they are not yet made Right with God the Father. This is where the physical Work of Christ comes into play. When a person is released from Satan's grasp, to do and think as he, the Devil desires, they can not only respond to the Spiritual Work of Christ, but they can then place their Faith into the Work of Christ upon the Cross. When such a person believes in the Power that raised Him from the dead, they are THEN made Right with the Father.
These things explain why Abraham is our Father of Faith. However, even Abraham was looking forward to Christ so that he, too, could put his Faith in the Risen Messiah.
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."
Now, if you're going to resort to name-calling and belittling my Spiritual status or placing me into some kind of box, please don't reply. I have no room for drama.
I don't say this often. I usually try and mute my response when I disagree with other posters I respect, but you couldn’t be more wrong.
The whole point of Jesus coming was to give us new life, and to save us not only from sin, but the power sin had over us before regeneration.
We were dead, and powerless before we were born again. We CAN’T turn away from our sin without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
The whole point of Jesus coming was to give us new life, and to save us not only from sin, but the power sin had over us before regeneration.
We were dead, and powerless before we were born again. We CAN’T turn away from our sin without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
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Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but vas an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Just saying...
Regardless of our personal sensibilities on what we think about how we should be saved, it is the Bible that ends the debate.
Just saying...
Regardless of our personal sensibilities on what we think about how we should be saved, it is the Bible that ends the debate.
Indeed, a thought-by-thought, phrase-by-phrase study of the Old Testament will make true Baptism abundantly clear. The problem is this: Said "christians" are unwilling to read and study their Bibles. They will read what we have to say here, but they do not have the time to read a Bible. They will study Calvinism to berate others, but they will not read their Bibles.
One of the humans in my last Bible "study" group admitted over and over that he doesn't read the Bible. But incredibly, he somehow came to believe that the pastor at our church was incorrect. Not to discourage him, I shook my intellectual head to his shame. It was and still is disgusting. I'll never forget when I quoted a particular translation where it refers to possessing the Mind of Christ. In front of everyone, he said, "NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!"
One of the humans in my last Bible "study" group admitted over and over that he doesn't read the Bible. But incredibly, he somehow came to believe that the pastor at our church was incorrect. Not to discourage him, I shook my intellectual head to his shame. It was and still is disgusting. I'll never forget when I quoted a particular translation where it refers to possessing the Mind of Christ. In front of everyone, he said, "NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!"
God is not the God of the dead but of the living.
We are made in God's image. we are not created dead.
We are commanded to respond to His commands. We may give a bad response but a response must be given.
We are not dead, we live.
We are not mindless zombies.
We are alive now.
We will be alive later.
How we choose will decide where.
We are not punished because of the deeds of our fathers (Adam).
Ezekiel 18:20
Only the one who sins will die. A child won’t bear a parent’s guilt, and a parent won’t bear a child’s guilt. Those who do right will be declared innocent, and the wicked will be declared guilty.
We are made in God's image. we are not created dead.
We are commanded to respond to His commands. We may give a bad response but a response must be given.
We are not dead, we live.
We are not mindless zombies.
We are alive now.
We will be alive later.
How we choose will decide where.
We are not punished because of the deeds of our fathers (Adam).
Ezekiel 18:20
Only the one who sins will die. A child won’t bear a parent’s guilt, and a parent won’t bear a child’s guilt. Those who do right will be declared innocent, and the wicked will be declared guilty.
Don't worry about offending me... we've both been around long enough to know that we as believers don't always agree on things. I have no problem with that.
But... you are saying that any human being cannot turn away from a sinful lifestyle without being saved first?
That is akin to saying that a person cannot quit smoking.... or quit drinking. Sin is sin, and I believe most humans have a knowledge of what a sinful life is, compared to a spiritual life.
I believe that anyone can turn away from a sinful lifestyle... that is the textbook definition of "repentance"..... you turn away from something... anything... smoking, drinking, overeating, going out to bars every night... sin.... turning away simply means to make a conscious decision to change.... requires no salvation beforehand...
in fact, how can you be saved if you have not made the decision to turn away from your previous sinful lifestyle?
You're getting the cart before the horse, brother.....
Agreed.
I disagree....
31 And Jesus answered and said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners.” (sinners repenting, not the saved)
Acts 3:19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [i]Christ appointed for you, (repentance before accepting Jesus)
Acts 17:30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent (all people need to repent)
Acts 26:19 “For that reason, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but continually proclaimed to those in Damascus first, and in Jerusalem, and then all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they are to repent and turn to God, performing deeds consistent with repentance. (repent, THEN turn to God)
But... you are saying that any human being cannot turn away from a sinful lifestyle without being saved first?
That is akin to saying that a person cannot quit smoking.... or quit drinking. Sin is sin, and I believe most humans have a knowledge of what a sinful life is, compared to a spiritual life.
I believe that anyone can turn away from a sinful lifestyle... that is the textbook definition of "repentance"..... you turn away from something... anything... smoking, drinking, overeating, going out to bars every night... sin.... turning away simply means to make a conscious decision to change.... requires no salvation beforehand...
in fact, how can you be saved if you have not made the decision to turn away from your previous sinful lifestyle?
You're getting the cart before the horse, brother.....
Agreed.
I disagree....
31 And Jesus answered and said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners.” (sinners repenting, not the saved)
Acts 3:19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [i]Christ appointed for you, (repentance before accepting Jesus)
Acts 17:30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent (all people need to repent)
Acts 26:19 “For that reason, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but continually proclaimed to those in Damascus first, and in Jerusalem, and then all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they are to repent and turn to God, performing deeds consistent with repentance. (repent, THEN turn to God)
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Sorry brother, but I completely disagree with this. Repentance is not a gift... it is a conscious choice that we must make. I CHOOSE to turn away from sin. God does not make me turn away.... I believe after I receive the indwelling Spirit, he helps me STAY turned away... but the decision to turn away is mine to make.
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No, I have not. I never saw the need, as it was pretty self explanatory.
Let me ask you... what do you think the 3000+ Jews at Pentecost thought/assumed when Peter, in answer to their question, told them to "repent, and be baptized..... " ? Do you think that they considered doing an exhaustive study of what he meant? Or did they KNOW what he meant?
Let me ask you... what do you think the 3000+ Jews at Pentecost thought/assumed when Peter, in answer to their question, told them to "repent, and be baptized..... " ? Do you think that they considered doing an exhaustive study of what he meant? Or did they KNOW what he meant?
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