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T
I find it interesting that you said "God does" and then used these reactionary scriptures to prove your point. I guess I must be missing your connection and please allow me to explain. I could use the same theory to say "when I went outside in -20 weather with high winds , I was very cold." The when is not pointing to a specific time,but rather an action. Pretty much all of the scripture you used here shows this, WHEN they HEARD, they BELIEVED. This points to the action of hearing and the direct result of believing. So in a sense you are right, that God wants us to BELIEVE WHEN we HEAR the good news, but I see no where in these references where God says through the author " and they heard as a child and believed," or " and when only the people old enough to understand heard they knew to write down the date of their salvation for they knew this date means something to the father".....I think that when we are made alive in Him the angels and hosts of heaven celebrate and it is a great time indeed, but I submit that it isn't nearly as important as giving the Glory to God. I also think that celebrating and sharing the salvation of and with others would be far more prudent. You usedRom 13:11 Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. Which is a wonderful and urgent scripture to bring to the saved and unsaved alike. Essentially saying Do this NOW, or the time is at hand, or DON'T WAIT and when you read the whole section of the chapter it highlights the actions required. But I find it curious that it says that salvation is closer now than when we believed.....don't you?
"Salvation is nearer to us than when we believed" This screams to the folks who are already believers....perhaps they were sluggish in their faith? Lazy in their carrying out the day to day of the Church? What I do get from this passage is that our salvation although assured and "not in jeopardy" as Spurgeon said. Rather it is in a state of construction at all times...it is being worked on, molded and growing much like a seed, it requires water, sunlight and aeration.
I apologize for my lack of understanding of your side of the discussion, and please do not take my views as adversarial in the least. I enjoy the iron sharpens iron type of conversation. God Bless.
The Machine
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.".......Inigo Montoya
"Salvation is nearer to us than when we believed" This screams to the folks who are already believers....perhaps they were sluggish in their faith? Lazy in their carrying out the day to day of the Church? What I do get from this passage is that our salvation although assured and "not in jeopardy" as Spurgeon said. Rather it is in a state of construction at all times...it is being worked on, molded and growing much like a seed, it requires water, sunlight and aeration.
I apologize for my lack of understanding of your side of the discussion, and please do not take my views as adversarial in the least. I enjoy the iron sharpens iron type of conversation. God Bless.
The Machine
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.".......Inigo Montoya
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You say "at the bottom of the article you quote three passages from the book of Mormon" , yet you do not quote the three verses. i have read the entire Book of Mormon, and have found the message of the book to be : believe in Jesus, do good and not evil. However i have upset Mormons when they teach things that is contrary to their Book of Mormon. i believe the Book of Mormon to be exactly what it says it is "Another testament of Jesus Christ" i have a testament of Jesus Christ as well, i have my own story about what Jesus has done in my life. The book of Mormon is a testament about what Jesus did in their lives as well. Now to say the Book of Mormon is the Word of God or it is to be believed as such is indeed wrong and is not the Truth. The book of Mormon is not the Word of God, it is merely a testimony what Jesus did in their lives.
^i^
^i^
Did you read the article, or just make an assumption about it and not read it? If you have read it, then tell me what part you disagree with? If you loved me, as a Christian is to do, you will take the time to try to help me. If i have said something wrong or in error in the article, then by all means please help me correct it, and tell me what it is that you do not agree with. Or you can just look the other way and not help at all, like this generation is notorious in doing.
Again, you accuse me of something, yet show nothing as to what i have said that does this. Please tell me what i have said that you believe reflects my own views. Because if that is True, i will correct that error, through your help, but if i know not what you are referring to, how can i correct it. If you feel that i am teaching falsely, should you not try to help me, or at least tell me what it is that i am teaching falsely? i will continue to teach what is in the article, because you failed to tell me what is in error in the article. How can i change it or correct it, if i know not what is in error.
You say that i have omitted actual passages talking about war, yet you do not list one passage. Tell me what passages have i omitted? Can i add all passages? Is it possible i missed a passage that you know about? How can i add the passage i missed if you do not tell which passage it is that i missed?
i do not recall i ever saying that either. Are you saying that i have said that a soldier should walk away from his/her job? i have no ideal why i would say such a thing, i was four years active duty Air Force and 8 years Army National Guard. Is it possible you do not understand the article about War, and have made these false assumptions about me?
Again, you accuse me of something, yet show nothing as to what i have said that does this. Please tell me what i have said that you believe reflects my own views. Because if that is True, i will correct that error, through your help, but if i know not what you are referring to, how can i correct it. If you feel that i am teaching falsely, should you not try to help me, or at least tell me what it is that i am teaching falsely? i will continue to teach what is in the article, because you failed to tell me what is in error in the article. How can i change it or correct it, if i know not what is in error.
You say that i have omitted actual passages talking about war, yet you do not list one passage. Tell me what passages have i omitted? Can i add all passages? Is it possible i missed a passage that you know about? How can i add the passage i missed if you do not tell which passage it is that i missed?
i do not recall i ever saying that either. Are you saying that i have said that a soldier should walk away from his/her job? i have no ideal why i would say such a thing, i was four years active duty Air Force and 8 years Army National Guard. Is it possible you do not understand the article about War, and have made these false assumptions about me?
True. Because when we're talking about being saved we're talking about being saved from judgment and eternal damnation.
No one alive has faced judgment day yet, so one should really never say 'I was saved'. Rather what we have is certain hope that 'I will be saved'.
No one here was saved, or is presently saved. But all of us (except the occational atheist lurker) are to be saved.
No one alive has faced judgment day yet, so one should really never say 'I was saved'. Rather what we have is certain hope that 'I will be saved'.
No one here was saved, or is presently saved. But all of us (except the occational atheist lurker) are to be saved.
First of all, when it comes to the topic of this thread, I would not say I was saved all my life. As for the saved part, the church I go to calls it already-not-yet theology. When you come to Christ and accept as your personal Savior and sovereign Lord, you are saved. If you do not leave the faith and leave, then you are still saved until the end of your life. So I like to think of this as you are saved and will be completely saved when you die, if you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord. This one time was discussed in my adult Sunday school class and when I heard it, it made sense. But if for you it does not make sense, then I hope that God can give you some clarity in this subject and if I am in the wrong, then I am in the wrong. God bless and stay strong in the faith of Jesus Christ.
J
I will appear before the Judgement Seat, but I am saved from that judgement by Christ. He has already taken on my judgement. Penal Substition is a wonderful thing.
2 Cor. 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us
may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good
or bad.
2 Cor. 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us
may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good
or bad.
J
Skinski's soon to copy and paste...
Some scholars and church leaders argue that penal substitutionary atonement—the doctrine that when Jesus died on the cross God punished him for the sins of his people, in whose place he stood—is at best one scriptural metaphor among many. Such teachers argue that we should push penal substitution to the sidelines of the gospel message. Should we therefore de-emphasize, de-centralize, or even lay aside this doctrine in favor of a
more balanced presentation? Not if we want to be faithful to Scripture. While the Bible does use other images and ideas to describe Christ’s work on the cross (such as healing, reconciliation, and victory over Satan), penal substitutionary atonement is central to the gospel in at least two ways.
- It’s by far the most common biblical explanation of Christ’s work on the cross. Christ was pierced for our transgressions (Isa. 53:5). The Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all (Isa. 53:6).Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3). We’re justified by the blood of Christ (Rom. 5:9). God set forth Christ as a propitiation—a sacrifice that turns away God’s wrath—so that those who believe in Christ would be declared righteous (Rom. 3:25, 1 John 2:2). All of these verses and plenty more (take a look at the book of Leviticus!) speak of God pouring out on Christ the wrath we deserved for our sins. Penal substitution is inescapably central to the Bible’s teaching about the gospel.
- Penal substitutionary atonement is what makes all of the other images “work.” Christ triumphed over Satan on the cross by bearing God’s wrath in our place and so freeing us from Satan’s power and claims (Col. 2:14-15). Christ healed us by bearing the wounds we deserved (Isa. 53:5). Christ reconciled us to God by satisfying God’s wrath against us (Rom. 5:9-11). According to Scripture, our biggest problem is God’s wrath due to us for our sin. In providing for our greatest need Christ accomplished everything else we need for salvation.
Copy-Pasta Y'all, everyone get a plate.
C
James 2:19
Even demons believe there is one God, just because you believe, that doesn't make you saved
As for reading and following what is good, isn't always good, budhist are known to be good, as are hindus, yet they worship hundreds of gods and goddesses, wicans claim to be good, see where I'm going here? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The Only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ, there is NO other way, repent, and believe Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the third day,, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord!
Even demons believe there is one God, just because you believe, that doesn't make you saved
As for reading and following what is good, isn't always good, budhist are known to be good, as are hindus, yet they worship hundreds of gods and goddesses, wicans claim to be good, see where I'm going here? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The Only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ, there is NO other way, repent, and believe Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the third day,, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord!
1
Psalms 8
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Out of the mouth of babies and infants,
you have established strength because of your foes,
to still the enemy and the avenger.
Jesus confirms...
Matthew 21
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,
“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Out of the mouth of babies and infants,
you have established strength because of your foes,
to still the enemy and the avenger.
Jesus confirms...
Matthew 21
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,
“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”