Saved by faith alone?

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GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,836
1,299
113
Midwest
#42
Galatians 5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Also see:

1Co_6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the​
kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor​
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of​
themselves with mankind,​
No, the righteous, who were washed being saved "By Grace Through faith" Alone
should not "do such things" but will they be lost? No, otherwise that Contradicts
Over 12-Dozen 'Plain and Clear' Scriptures about "the righteous" Under Grace:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ!

God's Eternal Assurance!

God's Eternal Life Insurance!

Then, Worst Of All, it also Denies:

Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!

Amen.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#43
In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.
as much as love this here (^), Verse 20, does seem to confirm his position.

20 that were disobedient once when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while an ark was prepared, in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 Which (water) in its antitype, baptism, now saves you also (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,

this seems to confirm his position.

that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 Which (water) in its antitype, baptism, now saves you also
^
if you go by that, he can easily make his case.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,864
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#47
as much as love this here (^), Verse 20, does seem to confirm his position.

20 that were disobedient once when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while an ark was prepared, in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 Which (water) in its antitype, baptism, now saves you also (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,

this seems to confirm his position.

that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 Which (water) in its antitype, baptism, now saves you also
^
if you go by that, he can easily make his case.
The Greek word “antitupon,” as used in I Peter 3: 21, is “an adjective, used as a noun,” and denotes, in the NT, “a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism.” “The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type,” each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ.

It 's not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type.” Noah was saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of “salvation.” Their “salvation” was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience -through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
1,165
382
83
64
Colorado, USA
#48
Agree. God does not contradict himself. Scripture agrees with scripture. What's your point?
My point what is commanded is done by those who are saved. Those works do not save us nor participate in our salvation. Works salvation is a fool's errand.
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
972
171
43
#49
My point what is commanded is done by those who are saved. Those works do not save us nor participate in our salvation. Works salvation is a fool's errand.
You have it backwards. You aren't saved until you obey and do what you're told to do. No different in the OT or NT. Re the account of Naaman in 2 Kings 5. He was told by Elisha to dip 7 times in the Jordan, to go wash and be cleansed to cure his leopracy. He questioned why, but eventually obeyed and was cured. No different with Abraham. It's upon obedience that we're made whole and not before. The scriptural language is sufficiently clear and leaves no doubt.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
23,595
12,517
113
#50
It's only true faith in God and the Cross when it causes one to walk in the ways that God and the Cross represent, i.e., holiness and righteousness. Anything short of this is not true faith. Abraham believed God and obeyed Him.
That's correct. True faith is accompanied by repentance. Repentance is for the remission of sins, and justification is by GRACE through faith, so that God imputes righteousness to the one who believes. So those who are truly saved will walk in obedience to God. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11,12)

Too many Christians have not fully understood how the grace of God applies the finished work of Christ to vile sinners and makes them children of God and saints of God. The moment a person is saved by grace, God sees him as a "saint" -- a sanctified one. Why? Because it is God who gives him the gift of the Holy Spirit, it is Christ who baptizes (or immerses) him with the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who baptizes (or places) him into the Body of Christ. Then it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates that person and makes him a child of God. [Note that "him" is used generally for any "person".] Unless all this is clearly understood, people cannot truly comprehend that salvation is a work of God, therefore all human works are excluded (including baptism, the sacraments, circumcision, or anything else).

At the same time Christian baptism is a commandment of Christ, and is the first step in the process of sanctification. There are some here who would dismiss baptism by immersion as obsolete, but both Christ, and Peter, and Paul would soundly rebuke them for disobedience.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
1,165
382
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64
Colorado, USA
#51
You have it backwards. You aren't saved until you obey and do what you're told to do. No different in the OT or NT. Re the account of Naaman in 2 Kings 5. He was told by Elisha to dip 7 times in the Jordan, to go wash and be cleansed to cure his leopracy. He questioned why, but eventually obeyed and was cured. No different with Abraham. It's upon obedience that we're made whole and not before. The scriptural language is sufficiently clear and leaves no doubt.
Works based salvation is heresy, plain and simple.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
#53
Those are results, not requirements.
Confession of belief, repentance and baptism are not requirements?

They happen at some moment after we are saved?

Are you sure about this?

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

These sound like something you do before you are saved.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
#54
Works based salvation is heresy, plain and simple.
Agreed but who is suggesting that we work our way to heaven?
It seems as if this works salvation monster is all in your head.

Labeling the acts of obedience of others toward salvation as acts of merit is a sign of arrogance.

What you should be concerned about is having your wedding gown on and stop telling others the gown is a work therefore not needed.

Matthew 22:12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But the man was speechless.

Putting on the wedding gown was not a work to earn your right into the wedding feast but your willingness to come on the terms of the King.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
#55
You don't know what you're talking about. Goodbye 👋
Heresy?!

Someone wants to obey what is clearly commanded by the Lord and you label it as heresy?

I must agree, you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
#56
That's correct. True faith is accompanied by repentance. Repentance is for the remission of sins, and justification is by GRACE through faith, so that God imputes righteousness to the one who believes. So those who are truly saved will walk in obedience to God. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11,12)

Too many Christians have not fully understood how the grace of God applies the finished work of Christ to vile sinners and makes them children of God and saints of God. The moment a person is saved by grace, God sees him as a "saint" -- a sanctified one. Why? Because it is God who gives him the gift of the Holy Spirit, it is Christ who baptizes (or immerses) him with the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who baptizes (or places) him into the Body of Christ. Then it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates that person and makes him a child of God. [Note that "him" is used generally for any "person".] Unless all this is clearly understood, people cannot truly comprehend that salvation is a work of God, therefore all human works are excluded (including baptism, the sacraments, circumcision, or anything else).

At the same time Christian baptism is a commandment of Christ, and is the first step in the process of sanctification. There are some here who would dismiss baptism by immersion as obsolete, but both Christ, and Peter, and Paul would soundly rebuke them for disobedience.
Your comment sounds nice but baptism is for the forgiveness of sins.

No mention of "process of sanctification".

You are reading into the scriptures instead of just reading it.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
#57
The Greek word “antitupon,” as used in I Peter 3: 21, is “an adjective, used as a noun,” and denotes, in the NT, “a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism.” “The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type,” each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ.

It 's not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type.” Noah was saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of “salvation.” Their “salvation” was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience -through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.
Or maybe it just means what it states,

In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

Why can't scripture just mean what it says?

Why must faith alone regeneration theology followers always tell us what the verses really mean?
 

timemeddler

Active member
Jul 13, 2023
291
105
43
#58
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
#59
no one is saved because they were baptized in water anymore than anyone was saved because they were circumcised.

as the jews were called anathema because they attempted to add circumcision. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
its interesting that both circumcision and baptism represent cleansing.. which can only be done by the hand of God.
Is Jesus a "anathema" when He added water baptism into salvation in Mark 16:16?

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Think long and hard before you answer.