Saved by faith alone?
- Thread starter Lamar
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So, the rudeness must begin. It's always just a matter of time and not meaning just you.
It's simply that I don't want to get into discussions using those catch-all words that can classify things too broadly for my tastes and end up nowhere like our discussion about prescriptive and descriptive commands.
I have no problem with discussing the concept in more complete terminology like I highlighted above. And I agree with it BTW. The parable is just identifying 4 conditions of soil - analogous to people - that the Word of God is sown among.
It's simply that I don't want to get into discussions using those catch-all words that can classify things too broadly for my tastes and end up nowhere like our discussion about prescriptive and descriptive commands.
I have no problem with discussing the concept in more complete terminology like I highlighted above. And I agree with it BTW. The parable is just identifying 4 conditions of soil - analogous to people - that the Word of God is sown among.
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Well, we can change soils and have had to be doing so since the fall and are still doing so.
So, if you want to say we can't change hearts, then you'll need a different analogy, or just cut out the analogies and say we can't change hearts, and we can argue this.
I'll start with practical experience. When I was a kid at some point in early advance through school, I got lazy and rebellious and my abilities to understand suffered. One night my mother decided that was enough and forced me to sit up almost all-night studying and practicing for an exam the next morning. It was brutal as I recall for that young age, and I had near zero thought or will that I could do what was being tested. I got taught and drilled to exhaustion. I got a few hours of sleep, was forced to go to school, sat there in trepidation for my name to be called for the oral exam, got called, was shaking, aced it and on the clock the fastest in the class.
Our heart condition starts very young. There are many stories of parents and teachers and other caring persons who make differences in the hearts and minds of the young. Our Text speaks of people hardening their own hearts and this is the prelude to the parables. God maintains harsh penalties for teachers and leaders and gives instruction re: rearing children and working the rebellion out of them as He does with us once we are His.
I simply think we should consider our role in our lives and those of others around us when we're talking about conditions of hearts or soils by analogy. We have little clue what we're going to hear at the judgment and at what He will not address that He could have.
So, if you want to say we can't change hearts, then you'll need a different analogy, or just cut out the analogies and say we can't change hearts, and we can argue this.
I'll start with practical experience. When I was a kid at some point in early advance through school, I got lazy and rebellious and my abilities to understand suffered. One night my mother decided that was enough and forced me to sit up almost all-night studying and practicing for an exam the next morning. It was brutal as I recall for that young age, and I had near zero thought or will that I could do what was being tested. I got taught and drilled to exhaustion. I got a few hours of sleep, was forced to go to school, sat there in trepidation for my name to be called for the oral exam, got called, was shaking, aced it and on the clock the fastest in the class.
Our heart condition starts very young. There are many stories of parents and teachers and other caring persons who make differences in the hearts and minds of the young. Our Text speaks of people hardening their own hearts and this is the prelude to the parables. God maintains harsh penalties for teachers and leaders and gives instruction re: rearing children and working the rebellion out of them as He does with us once we are His.
I simply think we should consider our role in our lives and those of others around us when we're talking about conditions of hearts or soils by analogy. We have little clue what we're going to hear at the judgment and at what He will not address that He could have.
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I disagree. We cannot change soil in the way I'm referring. While the actions of others may be used of God to give increase, God alone gives increase.
There's more here that is true, but none of it contradicts what I have just stated. Where we fundamentally disagree over is the estate of fallen man; what he is and what he is capable of.
And my apologies for sounding rude. That wasn't my intention.
There's more here that is true, but none of it contradicts what I have just stated. Where we fundamentally disagree over is the estate of fallen man; what he is and what he is capable of.
And my apologies for sounding rude. That wasn't my intention.
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That's because your views do not align with Scripture.
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
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Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.
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