Saved by Grace through Faith

[Stephen63]

And here I thought you held a different view than this. Not sure why I did but I am glad to see we are in agreement. I always like to say that good works are a symptom of a transformed life.

We do have different views..... You believe in an eternal security that no matter how wicked one lives they'll always be saved & I believe in a different eternal security that states my salvation is secure only if I continue to believe in Christ..... I can get offended & walk away.

1 Corinthians 8:10-11 (KJV) [SUP]10 [/SUP]For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; [SUP]11 [/SUP]And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

This means just what it says. Offended christians can backslide, losing everything.

Luke 21:33-36 (KJV) [SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. [SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

"Standing before the Son of man" is the Judgement seat of Christ, for which the righteous will be judged. All the wicked, including christians that left their first love, will stand before the Great White Throne judgement.

We both believe in eternal security, just not the same one.

 

[valiant]

We do have different views..... You believe in an eternal security that no matter how wicked one lives they'll always be saved & I believe in a different eternal security that states my salvation is secure only if I continue to believe in Christ..... I can get offended & walk away.

but yours is not eternal security. on your basis many Christians live in great insecurity.

true you can get offended and walk away. guess Who'll be waiting for you when you get to your destination?

1 Corinthians 8:10-11 (KJV) [SUP]10 [/SUP]For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; [SUP]11 [/SUP]And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

yes the weaker brother may die because of his failing belief. But it will be so that he is not condemned with the world (1 Cor 11.29-32)

This means just what it says. Offended christians can backslide, losing everything.

that's not what it says.

Luke 21:33-36 (KJV) [SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. [SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

this is a warning to be ready. it is spoken to all, nominal believers and real believers. but every real believer will be kept by God so that he is ready.

"Standing before the Son of man" is the Judgement seat of Christ, for which the righteous will be judged. All the wicked, including christians that left their first love, will stand before the Great White Throne judgement.

it does not refer to the Judgment seat of God/Christ at all. it refers to being raptured and standing in His presence.

ALL will have to stand before the great white throne, Christians and non-Christians.

We both believe in eternal security, just not the same one.

nope you believe in continual doubt for younger Christians. on your basis you are NOT eternally secure. you simply might be providing you can hold on.

 

[Sirk]

We do have different views..... You believe in an eternal security that no matter how wicked one lives they'll always be saved & I believe in a different eternal security that states my salvation is secure only if I continue to believe in Christ..... I can get offended & walk away.

1 Corinthians 8:10-11 (KJV) [SUP]10 [/SUP]For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; [SUP]11 [/SUP]And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

This means just what it says. Offended christians can backslide, losing everything.

Luke 21:33-36 (KJV) [SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. [SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

"Standing before the Son of man" is the Judgement seat of Christ, for which the righteous will be judged. All the wicked, including christians that left their first love, will stand before the Great White Throne judgement.

We both believe in eternal security, just not the same one.

Well thanks for telling me what I believe and throwing the olive branch I extended to you back in my face.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I agree with this statement

I think people are saying that believing is not a condition because they seem to disagree with SeeBass.
I think a poll should be done about this but the kind of poll that shows the names of the people and how they voted.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Well thanks for telling me what I believe and throwing the olive branch I extended to you back in my face.

Your problem, Sirk, is that having absolute faith, assurance and trust in the Lord is really irritating to some people. But, when it comes to truth, even when it hurts some folks...

Anonymous Web Poster Says, Then Bible Says: Click for Bible Says

​

(It helps to smooth things over if you pretend to have no joy in the Lord or personal "epignosis" of Him.)

 

[Sirk]

Your problem, Sirk, is that having absolute faith, assurance and trust in the Lord is really irritating to some people. But, when it comes to truth, even when it hurts some folks...

Anonymous Web Poster Says, Then Bible Says: Click for Bible Says

​

(It helps to smooth things over if you pretend to have no joy in the Lord or personal "epignosis" of Him.)

It just wasn't very kind when you consider the whole of scripture....instead....It's just a person looking at scripture thru the telescope in reverse perspective. Lol .....Things get very small...and far away when you look thru binoculars backwards.

 

[valiant]

I think people are saying that believing is not a condition because they seem to disagree with SeeBass.
I think a poll should be done about this but the kind of poll that shows the names of the people and how they voted.

a condition is something you can choose to do or not to do as you wish

you cannot choose to have faith either you are convinced or you are not. And it is God by His Holy Spirit Who convinces the one who truly believes.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

a condition is something you can choose to do or not to do as you wish

you cannot choose to have faith either you are convinced or you are not. And it is God by His Holy Spirit Who convinces the one who truly believes.

Just curious to your interpretation does John 3:16 have a condition?

 

[Sirk]

a condition is something you can choose to do or not to do as you wish

you cannot choose to have faith either you are convinced or you are not. And it is God by His Holy Spirit Who convinces the one who truly believes.

It's an inside/outside transformation where our training in righteousness begins and we day by day surrender our lives to Jesus.
I wonder at times, if only very few here really understand what it really means to let go of something.... and the peace that it brings to your life? I realize this sounds judgmental but I am guilty of not surrendering things at times as well.....but there are few very painful things that I have had to turn over and it was a really long slog thru the pain of it until I finally let go and trusted Jesus with it.....but I never felt that Jesus had left me.

 

[JesusIsAll]

It just wasn't very kind when you consider the whole of scripture....instead....It's just a person looking at scripture thru the telescope in reverse perspective. Lol .....Things get very small...and far away when you look thru binoculars backwards.

Things get very small from that view, small to invisible. Not one verse of a believer being unborn again, unsealed, uncalled, unchosen, unpredestined, God breaking a promise, temporary eternal life (!): you don't see any of that in scripture, were you using the right end of the binoculars.

 

[p_rehbein]

a condition is something you can choose to do or not to do as you wish

you cannot choose to have faith either you are convinced or you are not. And it is God by His Holy Spirit Who convinces the one who truly believes.

Well, actually, Yes and NO. Depends on what "faith" one is referring to does it not? Even unbelievers have a modicum of faith. The problem arises because of what they choose to put their faith in. Speaking of worldly things of all sorts.

That is a "natural/imperfect' faith that all men have.

Supernatural faith is the faith that is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Stephen63]

Well thanks for telling me what I believe and throwing the olive branch I extended to you back in my face.

I wasn't trying to be mean. I'm sorry if I offended you. If I wasn't correct, please tell me where I was wrong..... in detail.

 

[Sirk]

I wasn't trying to be mean. I'm sorry if I offended you. If I wasn't correct, please tell me where I was wrong..... in detail.

I wasn't offended as much as I was surprised to have someone inform me where on stand things and I don't really like to be talked to that way. What is your question? I would hope it's not your intention to try and trip me up in some way.

 

[Sirk]

I wasn't trying to be mean. I'm sorry if I offended you. If I wasn't correct, please tell me where I was wrong..... in detail.

This will give a you good idea where I stand on eternal security. If you are so inclined, listen to it and tell me where you differ or disagree....in detail. [video=youtube;EN06cRrW3kk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN06cRrW3kk[/video]

 

[Crustyone]

Although the bible doesn't say it in black and white I am convinced that there are works of law and works of faith. We are told over and over that we can not be saved by works which is always mentioned in terms of works of the law, however Romans 10:9-10 tells us that we do need to "do" something to be saved and that is what I feel is our "work of faith". Romans 10:9-10 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Although the bible doesn't say it in black and white I am convinced that there are works of law and works of faith. We are told over and over that we can not be saved by works which is always mentioned in terms of works of the law, however Romans 10:9-10 tells us that we do need to "do" something to be saved and that is what I feel is our "work of faith". Romans 10:9-10 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Hello Crustyone
Works of the law is just you using will-power and its designed to show you that you can't be accepted by GOD unless you can do works of the law perfectly and the works of the law are just physical works and GOD is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth.
JESUS made the law honorable and that's why it said GOD must be worshiped in truth and you can't worship in truth if what you are feeling on the inside doesn't match what is going on on the outside.

Works of faith are spiritual and are fruit of the spirit and these are the kind of works GOD wants .
Only GOD can clean the inside.
If you are doing works of the law you have not come to the end of your flesh and are under the schoolmaster still.

 

[p_rehbein]

Hello Crustyone

Works of faith are spiritual and are fruit of the spirit and these are the kind of works GOD wants .
Only GOD can clean the inside.
If you are doing works of the law you have not come to the end of your flesh and are under the schoolmaster still.

..................

 

[mailmandan]

Although the bible doesn't say it in black and white I am convinced that there are works of law and works of faith. We are told over and over that we can not be saved by works which is always mentioned in terms of works of the law, however Romans 10:9-10 tells us that we do need to "do" something to be saved and that is what I feel is our "work of faith". Romans 10:9-10 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

We don't simply recite the words "Jesus is Lord" as a work for salvation. We confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord as an expression of faith, not as a work for salvation. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. These are not two separate steps to salvation (believe today then finally confess next week and are finally saved next week) but are chronologically together.

 

[Stephen63]

I wasn't offended as much as I was surprised to have someone inform me where on stand things and I don't really like to be talked to that way. What is your question? I would hope it's not your intention to try and trip me up in some way.

So was I wrong? Yes or no? The only thing I missed was "those that seemingly 'went back' were never saved to begin with."

As far as you don't like how I talked to you..... I didn't see anything insulting that I wrote. I'm not trying to trip you up. I was being blatantly honest, nothing more.

Was what I said about your beliefs true?

 

[Sirk]

So was I wrong? Yes or no? The only thing I missed was "those that seemingly 'went back' were never saved to begin with."

As far as you don't like how I talked to you..... I didn't see anything insulting that I wrote. I'm not trying to trip you up. I was being blatantly honest, nothing more.

Was what I said about your beliefs true?

Im not sure what the question is that you are asking me...."was I wrong". Wrong about what? I'm not sure what you're trying to insinuate about me other than I believe that a person who has the Holy Spirit living in him or her is gonna continue to travel on the path that they were on. If we can get to a point in our conversation where you will tell me where you stand vs where I stand, then we might be able to have a fruitful discussion. So I am telling you, if you wanna have a discussion that is how I would like to be treated.