Saved by Water

[BillG]

Your comments show what I've stated about people not reading entire posts before responding. I answered your questions. If you are seriously interested you may want to check my posts.

I have and cannot see a direct response to my questions.
Direct response being yes or no, which I have asked for.
I have asked so many times.
And yes I looked over and over again.
So your accusation of me not reading your posts is a deflection.

In one of my posts where I gave my belief which I have not a response to therefore you have not read my entire posts either.

So once again.

I do not believe that baptism or speaking in tongues saves a person.
Do you believe both baptism and speaking in tongues saves a person?

I have been baptised because I am saved and not to saved so it's a mute point here concerning me.

Ok I won't ask again about baptism as I know you belief concerning this.

I do not speak in tongues. I have not been given this gift.

Am I saved?
Would speaking in tongues save me?

Now if you have answered directly with a yes or no then please point me to that post.
If you cannot then please answer.

Now if you can I will apologise and we will have to disagree.

If you cannot then I have to ask you why are so afraid to answer?

Oh I forgot also the question I asked you but just remembered.

Do you believe in the trinity?

You have been asked this by a few more people as well.

Just don't quote Bible verses.
Just answer the questions proposed.

Are you brave enough to answer the question of which church you attend and it's denomination.

I am more than happy to tell you mine, even explain its denomination.

If you cannot answer the questions proposed by many then you have no credibility.

Just so you know there and have been members on here who believe what you do and are not ashamed to have answered the same questions.

At least they were willing to do so.

 

[BillG]

I respectfully disagree that the Acts 10 record shows that a person is saved the moment they believe:

It's good to respectfully to disagree?
Yes and no but unless we know what we are disagreeing about then we cannot disagree.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

[BillG]

http://www.thywordistruth.com/questions/Question-175.html#.YTZrPS14VOk

I was rebuked for posting links concerning baptism and posting the thoughts of men

Yet are not the doctrine of men taught to us?

Then what do we do?

We preach the doctrine of men that we listen to in church and possibly just copy and paste the statement of faith on website of the church we go to.

We can often tell the difference in the response to questions asked.

Anyway read the link.

 

[SophieT]

Jesus said the following:

"I and my Father are one." John 10:29

"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38

maybe sit down as you read the following

my husband and I are one also

two people, but yet the Bible says we are one

we make big decisions together and neither of us goes out doing things the other one knows nothing about

Jesus said He does the will of His Father

but I know that does not fit in with your Oneness doctrine

 

[CS1]

I have and cannot see a direct response to my questions.
Direct response being yes or no, which I have asked for.
I have asked so many times.
And yes I looked over and over again.
So your accusation of me not reading your posts is a deflection.

In one of my posts where I gave my belief which I have not a response to therefore you have not read my entire posts either.

So once again.

I do not believe that baptism or speaking in tongues saves a person.
Do you believe both baptism and speaking in tongues saves a person?

I have been baptised because I am saved and not to saved so it's a mute point here concerning me.

Ok I won't ask again about baptism as I know you belief concerning this.

I do not speak in tongues. I have not been given this gift.

Am I saved?
Would speaking in tongues save me?

Now if you have answered directly with a yes or no then please point me to that post.
If you cannot then please answer.

Now if you can I will apologise and we will have to disagree.

If you cannot then I have to ask you why are so afraid to answer?

Oh I forgot also the question I asked you but just remembered.

Do you believe in the trinity?

You have been asked this by a few more people as well.

Just don't quote Bible verses.
Just answer the questions proposed.

Are you brave enough to answer the question of which church you attend and it's denomination.

I am more than happy to tell you mine, even explain its denomination.

If you cannot answer the questions proposed by many then you have no credibility.

Just so you know there and have been members on here who believe what you do and are not ashamed to have answered the same questions.

At least they were willing to do so.

I believe you are very much biblical on these points:

1. I do not believe that baptism or speaking in tongues saves a person.
2. Do you believe both baptism and speaking in tongues save a person

neither being baptized save you nor speaking in tongues. Being Baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are both valid water baptisms for those who have made confession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and now acting in obedience to Christ to 1. Beleive unto salvation saved by grace through faith
than 2. Be baptized

 

[SophieT]

I respectfully disagree that the Acts 10 record shows that a person is saved the moment they believe:

all respect aside, you are fudging because the Bible could not be plainer

it just does not fit in with your Oneness doctrine

I don't respect that. we are saved the moment we believe. God works in our lives by His Spirit.

you told me you were saved, speaking in tongues and even though you thought you were saved, you believed later that you were not saved until you were water baptized

now how ridiculous is that when scripture is plain that is not salvation at all.

Paul says that if he or even an angel, preached in any other gospel save the one the Galatians had already heard.....and the Galatians were being chastised by Paul for trying to supplement the blood of Christ with some good ole snipping...and Paul asked them who had bewitched them. perhaps it might be right to ask who has bewitched some 2 and half million people here in the US who has bewitched them that they have somehow put aside the blood of Christ and are now water dependant for salvation

that, is truly reprehensible

But even if we or an angel out of heaven should preach a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed! Galatians 1:8

 

[CS1]

Since you brought it up, you may be interested to know that God told Abraham that an uncircumcised child would be cut off for breaking God's covenant.

Gen 17:13-14
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

just like circumcision Abraham Obeyed God and was found righteous before He was circumcised. Obeying was the cause circumcision was the effect Jesus saves Baptism is the obedience once you are righteous neither baptism nor Circumcision profits anything without Grace and faith and belief. there are many today who were baptized and circumcised yet Jesus is not Lord of their Life.

 

[Icedaisey]

I respectfully disagree that the Acts 10 record shows that a person is saved the moment they believe:

Notice what Peter was saying in verse 43 when the Holy Ghost fell on them. What does the group hear, believe. and obey in connection with the name of the Lord? See verses 47-48. What occurred is paralleled in Peter's message on the Day of Pentecost. Peter at that time stated everyone who believed in Jesus was to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) He also stated that the promise that included receiving the Holy Ghost was for all those the Lord would call. (Acts 2:39)

Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...

I think verse 43 is clear. What is salvation?
43 About him all the prophets testify,[dr] that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

[JBTN]

I respectfully disagree that the Acts 10 record shows that a person is saved the moment they believe:

If they are not, then wouldn’t this be a false statement?

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.1.KJV

 

[Wansvic]

I have and cannot see a direct response to my questions.
Direct response being yes or no, which I have asked for.
I have asked so many times.
And yes I looked over and over again.
So your accusation of me not reading your posts is a deflection.

In one of my posts where I gave my belief which I have not a response to therefore you have not read my entire posts either.

So once again.

I do not believe that baptism or speaking in tongues saves a person.
Do you believe both baptism and speaking in tongues saves a person?

I have been baptised because I am saved and not to saved so it's a mute point here concerning me.

Ok I won't ask again about baptism as I know you belief concerning this.

I do not speak in tongues. I have not been given this gift.

Am I saved?
Would speaking in tongues save me?

Now if you have answered directly with a yes or no then please point me to that post.
If you cannot then please answer.

Now if you can I will apologise and we will have to disagree.

If you cannot then I have to ask you why are so afraid to answer?

Oh I forgot also the question I asked you but just remembered.

Do you believe in the trinity?

You have been asked this by a few more people as well.

Just don't quote Bible verses.
Just answer the questions proposed.

Are you brave enough to answer the question of which church you attend and it's denomination.

I am more than happy to tell you mine, even explain its denomination.

If you cannot answer the questions proposed by many then you have no credibility.

Just so you know there and have been members on here who believe what you do and are not ashamed to have answered the same questions.

At least they were willing to do so.

Your statement that I have no credibility is interesting. My beliefs come directly from the word that I provide in answer to your questions. Usually when people demand yes or no answers there is an immediate negative response. I do not wish to argue opinions. I prefer to discuss scripture. The word is alive and it will not return void. As I am sure you are aware, it is the word of God and His Spirit that leads individuals into all truth. If we do not receive revelation immediately when presented with scripture, we can be sure that God will bring enlightenment to each of us according to His will.

Remember it is not your opinion, my opinion, or any church denomination's opinion, etc. that matters. Opinions will not be judged. According to Jesus all will be judged by the word. (John 12:48)

 

[Wansvic]

It's good to respectfully to disagree?
Yes and no but unless we know what we are disagreeing about then we cannot disagree.

Do you agree or disagree?

I did explain why I disagreed in my reply.

 

[BillG]

Your statement that I have no credibility is interesting. My beliefs come directly from the word that I provide in answer to your questions. Usually when people demand yes or no answers there is an immediate negative response. I do not wish to argue opinions. I prefer to discuss scripture. The word is alive and it will not return void. As I am sure you are aware, it is the word of God and His Spirit that leads individuals into all truth. If we do not receive revelation immediately when presented with scripture, we can be sure that God will bring enlightenment to each of us according to His will.

Remember it is not your opinion, my opinion, or any church denomination's opinion, etc. that matters. Opinions will not be judged. According to Jesus all will be judged by the word. (John 12:48)

So that will be a no to answering then.
I didn't say you had no credibility, if would not answer then you have no credibility.

A yes or no is fine by me.
I'm not gonna get nasty about it.
I would just disagree.

Just like you disagree with my beliefs as follows.

We are not saved by baptism.
We are not saved by speaking in tongues.
I believe in the Trinity.

 

[BillG]

Since these truths are confirmed in the word I agree they are necessary. To say otherwise would be a rejection of what is clearly seen in the word.

Biblical truths will always be confirmed by at least 2-3 witnesses. The bible shows clearly that the proper way to water baptize is in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is proven by the use of Jesus' name in all of the biblical records depicting actual water baptisms. And as for speaking in tongues, Peter stated that what the people heard and saw was the result of their receiving the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues accompanied receiving the Holy Ghost in numerous scriptures as well. (Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) In other scriptures speaking in tongues is implied or confirmed by comments made in the word. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 1 Cor. 14:18)

Even though the scripture does not reference Paul speaking in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost we know he did. In 1 Cor 14:18 we see Paul does speak and sing in tongues but when in church he would rather speak in a language understood by others in order to teach.

Lastly, scripture indicates it's proper to ask for the Holy Spirit. This scripture also provides proof that people cannot expect to receive it the instant they believe the gospel:
“If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” Luke 11:13

Peter informed listeners at Pentecost after they believed in Jesus that it must repent, and everyone was to be water baptized in Jesus name’ and that they could expect to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as well. This promise was not only for those present but extended to as the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39)

Ah,

So we are only saved if we speak in tongues then, along with your prescribed mode of baptism.

Thanks for answering the tongues question.
Looks like I'm going to hell then according to you.

 

[CS1]

Since these truths are confirmed in the word I agree they are necessary. To say otherwise would be a rejection of what is clearly seen in the word.

Biblical truths will always be confirmed by at least 2-3 witnesses. The bible shows clearly that the proper way to water baptize is in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is proven by the use of Jesus' name in all of the biblical records depicting actual water baptisms. And as for speaking in tongues, Peter stated that what the people heard and saw was the result of their receiving the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues accompanied receiving the Holy Ghost in numerous scriptures as well. (Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) In other scriptures speaking in tongues is implied or confirmed by comments made in the word. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 1 Cor. 14:18)

Even though the scripture does not reference Paul speaking in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost we know he did. In 1 Cor 14:18 we see Paul does speak and sing in tongues but when in church he would rather speak in a language understood by others in order to teach.

Lastly, scripture indicates it's proper to ask for the Holy Spirit. This scripture also provides proof that people cannot expect to receive it the instant they believe the gospel:
“If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” Luke 11:13

Peter informed listeners at Pentecost after they believed in Jesus that it must repent, and everyone was to be water baptized in Jesus name’ and that they could expect to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as well. This promise was not only for those present but extended to as the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39)

there are only really two at the most three versus those who hold to this understanding about Baptism in the name of Jesus only and speaking in tongues to be saved.


Acts 2:38 is the primary verse.

the problem with this doctrine is they refuse to read verses 1-37 in the chapter which explains why Peter said verse 38. Starting at verse 14 the empowering of the Holy Spirit has just happened.

Some believe that those on the day of Pentacost were saved then not before.
I believe they were saved before the day of Pentacost because they spent 40 DAYS with the Lord Jesus AFTER HE had risen from the dead. Nowhere in scripture do you see the Disciples refer to Jesus as a teacher, or by his common name, after He is seen risen from the dead, it is LORD. and John chapter 20:22 says Jesu breathed on them.

So, if Disciples were not saved until the day of Pentacost as some teach and believe that would mean the words Jesus spoke to the disciples over the 40 days HE was with them, did not save them until the day of Pentacost until they spoke in tongues.

Friends, do we know how foolish that sounds and unbiblical it is?


Jesu said these words to the disciples AFTER He rose from the dead and it had ZERO effect of salvation on them until the day of Pentacost.

what did Jesus say to these unsaved Apostles after he came to them risen from the dead?

• "Peace be to you.” John 20:
• to peter "If you Love me Feed my sheep"
• He taught them
• He ate with them
• He created on them saying receive the Holy Spirit

all that yet, the disciples were not saved until they spoke in tongues or received the Holy Spirit.
Because Jesus, when HE said "Recieve the Holy Spirit in the Gospel of John 20:22 HE, did not mean it.

there was only one reason why the disciples needed the Holy Spirit and it was Jesus who said why

in Acts 1:8.

Power to witness to the resurrection of Jesus from the Dead= to preach the gospel message of the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. They were saved already. Tongues did not save them, water baptism did not save them Jesus did.

 

[Wansvic]

If they are not, then wouldn’t this be a false statement?

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.1.KJV

I would say that what exactly is meant by believeth is the key. We know that Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:16) Hebrews 5:9 states that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those who obey him. Jesus also states that those who reject him and received not his words will stand in judgement. (John 12:48)

The instances recorded concerning the birth of the church make the point that everyone is to believe in Jesus' sacrifice, repent, get baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. I do not see this as having changed anywhere within the word.

The experience of Cornelius and the others having received the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 10) is paralleled by what occurred at Pentecost. Keep in mind that no one had been been water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus prior to that time.

 

[Wansvic]

Ah,

So we are only saved if we speak in tongues then, along with your prescribed mode of baptism.

Thanks for answering the tongues question.
Looks like I'm going to hell then according to you.

I know people say that everyone receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe. How can we know if this is true? We are told that all scripture is given for understanding doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. (2 Tim. 3:16)

Upon consideration of what Jesus stated in the following scripture it is apparent that receiving the Holy Ghost is not automatically received upon belief. At times people must ask God to give them the Holy Ghost:

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

Also, how did the people know when someone received the Holy Ghost in biblical times? (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) Peter said that what people saw and heard (speaking in tongues) on the Day of Pentecost was associated with the receiving of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:33) Consider as well that Philip knew the Samaritans had not received the Holy Ghost. How did he know this? (Acts 8:12-18) And lastly, why did Paul ask the Ephesus disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed? The question makes no sense if in fact all receive the Spirit when they believe. (Acts 19:1-6)

The reason I point out these scriptures is because my hearts desire is to be helpful. We are all in this journey together.

 

[Wansvic]

there are only really two at the most three versus those who hold to this understanding about Baptism in the name of Jesus only and speaking in tongues to be saved.


Acts 2:38 is the primary verse.

the problem with this doctrine is they refuse to read verses 1-37 in the chapter which explains why Peter said verse 38. Starting at verse 14 the empowering of the Holy Spirit has just happened.

Some believe that those on the day of Pentacost were saved then not before.
I believe they were saved before the day of Pentacost because they spent 40 DAYS with the Lord Jesus AFTER HE had risen from the dead. Nowhere in scripture do you see the Disciples refer to Jesus as a teacher, or by his common name, after He is seen risen from the dead, it is LORD. and John chapter 20:22 says Jesu breathed on them.

So, if Disciples were not saved until the day of Pentacost as some teach and believe that would mean the words Jesus spoke to the disciples over the 40 days HE was with them, did not save them until the day of Pentacost until they spoke in tongues.

Friends, do we know how foolish that sounds and unbiblical it is?


Jesu said these words to the disciples AFTER He rose from the dead and it had ZERO effect of salvation on them until the day of Pentacost.

what did Jesus say to these unsaved Apostles after he came to them risen from the dead?

• "Peace be to you.” John 20:
• to peter "If you Love me Feed my sheep"
• He taught them
• He ate with them
• He created on them saying receive the Holy Spirit

all that yet, the disciples were not saved until they spoke in tongues or received the Holy Spirit.
Because Jesus, when HE said "Recieve the Holy Spirit in the Gospel of John 20:22 HE, did not mean it.

there was only one reason why the disciples needed the Holy Spirit and it was Jesus who said why

in Acts 1:8.

Power to witness to the resurrection of Jesus from the Dead= to preach the gospel message of the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. They were saved already. Tongues did not save them, water baptism did not save them Jesus did.

Paul made it known that a person has to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit in order to become a child of God. (Romans 8:9-14) Notice what is conveyed by the commentary notes, and scriptures below:

The Jewish commentary states the breathing upon the apostles was symbolic. After breathing on the apostles, Jesus in fact told them to wait in Jerusalem for God's promise. (Luke 24:49, Acts 1:8) The actual receiving of the Holy Spirit took place on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:1-4)

Another point made in John 3:8 is that sound accompanies the arrival/indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And that is consistent with those who are born of the Spirit.


John 20:22
22 Breathed...the Ruach HaKodesh. (Holy Ghost) Yeshua's (Jesus') breathing was meaningful (see 3:8) but symbolic. The talmidim (apostles) actually received the Holy Spirit's power a month and a half later, at Shavu‘ot(Ac 2:4); see also Lk 24:49, Ac 1:8.
(from Jewish New Testament Commentary Copyright © 1992 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved. Used by permission.)

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it’s going. That’s how it is with everyone who has been born from the Spirit.” CJB

 

[Gardenias]

The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been just as the Father and Son.
He moved upon ppl and things in the OT.
He is NOW with every believer by salvation but there is a function to the Pentecostal experience.
We can have what God has for our experience to be more full if we but ask in faith not wavering.

To say to someone if they don't have the baptism in the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues they are not saved is ignorance of the word!
Just as saying if you're not baptized by water is ignorance of the word!

 

[CS1]

The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been just as the Father and Son.
He moved upon ppl and things in the OT.
He is NOW with every believer by salvation but there is a function to the Pentecostal experience.
We can have what God has for our experience to be more full if we but ask in faith not wavering.

To say to someone if they don't have the baptism in the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues they are not saved is ignorance of the word!
Just as saying if you're not baptized by water is ignorance of the word!

If there is no function to the empowering of the Holy Spirit as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 I guess you think Jesus was wrong?

The Lord Jesus said you SHALL receive power Afte the Holy Spirit has come upon you to be HIS witnesses.

 

[CS1]

Paul made it known that a person has to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit in order to become a child of God. (Romans 8:9-14) Notice what is conveyed by the commentary notes, and scriptures below:

The Jewish commentary states the breathing upon the apostles was symbolic. After breathing on the apostles, Jesus in fact told them to wait in Jerusalem for God's promise. (Luke 24:49, Acts 1:8) The actual receiving of the Holy Spirit took place on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:1-4)

Another point made in John 3:8 is that sound accompanies the arrival/indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And that is consistent with those who are born of the Spirit.


John 20:22
22 Breathed...the Ruach HaKodesh. (Holy Ghost) Yeshua's (Jesus') breathing was meaningful (see 3:8) but symbolic. The talmidim (apostles) actually received the Holy Spirit's power a month and a half later, at Shavu‘ot(Ac 2:4); see also Lk 24:49, Ac 1:8.
(from Jewish New Testament Commentary Copyright © 1992 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved. Used by permission.)

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it’s going. That’s how it is with everyone who has been born from the Spirit.” CJB

In addition, nothing in John 20:22 was symbolic unless you think Jesus did not appear to them and say Peace Be unto you then HE Breathed on them. Receive the Holy Spirit. You are taking John 3:8 out of context too.