I understand that about Matthew 7:21-23 that they were never saved, but we can not take one passage and apply it to everybody who falls away from the faith.
At least you admit that these many people were NEVER saved. Do you also understand that practicing lawlessness was a manifestation of their unbelief which was the root cause of the problem?
That would be a false misconception, as Jesus Himself even said some will abide in the faith for a little while then fall away do to trials or deceptions. To you and the rest of the OSAS crowd you believe when a person abides in the faith they are automatically saved so they can not become unsaved. Yet there are multiple scriptures that say some will depart (leave) from the faith.
Falling away for good do to trials or deceptions demonstrates a faith that is not firmly rooted and established in Christ from the start. Notice in John 6:51-61 that these many so called disciples of Jesus were offended by His words and in verse 66, we read that many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. In verse 64, Jesus clearly said - But there are some of you who
do not believe. For Jesus
knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. In John 8:31, Jesus said "if you continue in My word, then you are
TRULY my disciples." Those who do not continue are
not TRULY His disciples.
Now some take and want to twist that wording to say fall away or depart does not really mean they were in it to begin with. That is just a faulty debate because you can not depart from something you were never in, as in if you take a flight you can not depart from the airport if you never go to it.
Not everyone who claims to be a genuine Christian really is, so someone may fall away from being among a group of believers, yet were never truly saved themselves.
Mark 4:15-20
15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy.
17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being
"shallow" or
"rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having
"root" in themselves,
do not experience real salvation. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have
no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start
"has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this.
Temporary shallow belief, no root, lacks moisture, no fruit, withers away. If this is saving faith, then where is the fruit?
18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word;
19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful.
In regards to the thorny soil, the word was
choked out before reaching it's desired goal, making it [unfruitful]. The word is choked and therefore does not produce a renewed spiritual life in the person; "the anxieties of the age and the pleasures of wealth chokes the message. The worries of life and the delusions of wealth have the effect of stifling the word/gospel, such that the person does not bear the fruit of salvation. The thorny ground hearer was not fruitful but later became unfruitful, as some argue. Put a stop to the growth of the word and it
gives no fruit (Bible in Basic English) is not the same thing as saying, "gives fruit but then later stops producing fruit." The potential to eventually produce fruit was there, but the word was
choked out before reaching it's desired goal. It (the seed, the word) became unfruitful
(produces nothing, proves unfruitful, does not produce fruit, yields nothing), because the growth of the word was choked. In the Complete Jewish Bible we read, Now the seed sown among thorns stands for someone who hears the message, but it is choked by the worries of the world and the deceitful glamor of wealth, so that it
produces nothing. Nothing amounts to nothing and nothing was mentioned about it ever producing something. Faith without works is dead.
20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop--thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."
In contrast, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the
good soil, this is the man who
hears the word and understands it; who
INDEED BEARS FRUITand brings forth,
some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size. I suppose the question still remains, "can this forth soil eventually become fruitless?" I have to conclude that if this were possible, why didn't Christ include such a scenario before concluding? There is mention of a difference in the size of the crops, but no consequences or warnings are given to the lesser producers. Only the 4th soil was referred to as
"good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is NO MENTION OF CHOKING OR WITHERING THEREAFTER.
