Saw this question somewhere, any one know the answers?

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Jan 7, 2020
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#1
How can Jesus be the Messiah if...
The following are messianic tasks which Jesus failed to fulfill:
1) The Redemption of the Jews (Isaiah 52:7-15 and elsewhere) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused their deaths by the sword. Not to mention that following his death, the Temple was destroyed initiating a 1900+ year exile.
2) Ingathering of the Exiles (Isaiah 11:12) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused further exile.
3) Strengthening in Mitzvah Fulfillment (See Isaiah 2:3-4, 11:2-5; Yechezkel 36:2328, 37:24) – Rambam: The Christians [abolished the mitzvos and] created a new Torah.
4) United worship of God (Tzefaniah 3:9) – After Christianity came Islam, not to mention countless sects within Christianity, not to mention much of the world whom are either atheists or idol-worshipers
5) Godly knowledge will fill the earth (Isaiah 11:9): After Jesus, ignorance of God and even of science and philosophy became the norm, as the Dark Ages set in.

And don't say that...
Second coming: There’s not the slightest source for such an idea. But more fundamentally, one can make such a claim about any idiot in the street! That is, it can be said about any run-ofthe-mill person in the street that he’s the Messiah, and in regards to his not fulfilling anything that Mashiach’s supposed to do, it can simply be said that “That doesn’t prove anything, since he’ll accomplish all those things after he dies and then comes back to earth a second time.”
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,757
3,514
113
#2
All Jews are saved…...…..I need not continue.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,835
2,484
113
#3
How can Jesus be the Messiah if...
The following are messianic tasks which Jesus failed to fulfill:
Basic answer anything prophecy declares the Messiah will do if not done already in His first coming will be completed in His second coming..

1) The Redemption of the Jews (Isaiah 52:7-15 and elsewhere) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused their deaths by the sword. Not to mention that following his death, the Temple was destroyed initiating a 1900+ year exile.
History has not ended and the Jewish race has not been exterminated ( though some have tried ) therefore the eventual redemption of the descendants of Abraham in not closed..

2) Ingathering of the Exiles (Isaiah 11:12) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused further exile.
The exile of the Jews in 70ad does not exclude a future gathering..

3) Strengthening in Mitzvah Fulfillment (See Isaiah 2:3-4, 11:2-5; Yechezkel 36:2328, 37:24) – Rambam: The Christians [abolished the mitzvos and] created a new Torah.
I have no idea what ""Mitzvah Fulfillment"" is.. Please use terms that English speaking Christians can understand.. Also Christians kept the Torah OT.. It is in the Bible.. The New Testament is an addition to the Torah it does not wipe the OT out.. If it did so then the OT Torah would not be included in Christian Bibles..

4) United worship of God (Tzefaniah 3:9) – After Christianity came Islam, not to mention countless sects within Christianity, not to mention much of the world whom are either atheists or idol-worshipers
The current ""un-united"" worship of God will be eliminated upon the day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ..

5) Godly knowledge will fill the earth (Isaiah 11:9): After Jesus, ignorance of God and even of science and philosophy became the norm, as the Dark Ages set in.
Again History still continues and this can and will be accomplished when the Messiah Jesus returns..

And don't say that...
Second coming: There’s not the slightest source for such an idea.
Isaiah makes it clear the Messiah would be sacrificed as an offering but would then live again.. The following passage in the Torah makes it clear..

(Isaiah 53:10-12) "¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. {11} He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. {12} Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Now if a person can ask Christians any question they like but they cannot restrict a Christians answer by trying to make rules that you cannot reply with::

And don't say that...
Second coming
People can accept or reject our report.. They are responsible for their own reaction..

But more fundamentally, one can make such a claim about any idiot in the street! That is, it can be said about any run-ofthe-mill person in the street that he’s the Messiah, and in regards to his not fulfilling anything that Mashiach’s supposed to do, it can simply be said that “That doesn’t prove anything, since he’ll accomplish all those things after he dies and then comes back to earth a second time.”
Well it is up to people to decide if they accept the report or not.. If it is the truth that Jesus is the Messiah
( And it is the truth ) and people reject that report, then they have rejected their Messiah and rejected the truth and they will face His judgement on the day of judgement..

People are free to make their own response..
But our decisions have consequences..
Eternal consequences..

PS: Never allow a questioner to restrict how you can answer their question.. Just give the answer you feel lead to give.. Now if they reject it then that's their responsibility..
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,408
113
#4
How can Jesus be the Messiah if...
The following are messianic tasks which Jesus failed to fulfill:
1) The Redemption of the Jews (Isaiah 52:7-15 and elsewhere) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused their deaths by the sword. Not to mention that following his death, the Temple was destroyed initiating a 1900+ year exile.
2) Ingathering of the Exiles (Isaiah 11:12) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused further exile.
3) Strengthening in Mitzvah Fulfillment (See Isaiah 2:3-4, 11:2-5; Yechezkel 36:2328, 37:24) – Rambam: The Christians [abolished the mitzvos and] created a new Torah.
4) United worship of God (Tzefaniah 3:9) – After Christianity came Islam, not to mention countless sects within Christianity, not to mention much of the world whom are either atheists or idol-worshipers
5) Godly knowledge will fill the earth (Isaiah 11:9): After Jesus, ignorance of God and even of science and philosophy became the norm, as the Dark Ages set in.

And don't say that...
Second coming: There’s not the slightest source for such an idea. But more fundamentally, one can make such a claim about any idiot in the street! That is, it can be said about any run-ofthe-mill person in the street that he’s the Messiah, and in regards to his not fulfilling anything that Mashiach’s supposed to do, it can simply be said that “That doesn’t prove anything, since he’ll accomplish all those things after he dies and then comes back to earth a second time.”
you made another thread where is second coming in the o.t. and you were given many verses and now you say no second coming in the o.t. okay.

there is second coming in the o.t and many jews speculated about it too of two messiahs. come on this is dishonest who cares about what rambum has to say? he also lies there. christians did not create new torah. what an idiot that rambam was because he is an antichrist thats why just like the pharisees he hated Jesus. big error


his points are all stupid as well because the jews were redeemed, those who accepted Jesus as messiah first of all
there was unity among the true christians who accepted Jesus jews and gentiles and this liar is pretending like jews had unity even in n.t. they didnt pharisees and sadducees argued all the time.
godly knowledge will fill the earth in the future yes, like st.peter says but it wont be the satanic kabbalah occultism version
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,261
415
83
#5
How can Jesus be the Messiah if...
The following are messianic tasks which Jesus failed to fulfill:
1) The Redemption of the Jews (Isaiah 52:7-15 and elsewhere) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused their deaths by the sword. Not to mention that following his death, the Temple was destroyed initiating a 1900+ year exile.

God gave Israel a blessing and a curse that if they followed God in the truth a blessing that no enemy could defeat them, and rule over them, for God would fight for them, and if they did not follow God in the truth which had to go on for a certain amount of time for God gave them space to repent then God allowed their enemy to go against them and rule over them.

God gave Israel 70 years to turn to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah which they did not so God allowed the Roman Empire to overthrow Jerusalem, and scatter the Jews in to the nations, which Israel lost God's protection for rejecting the truth so it is not God's fault but their fault.

The miracles of Jesus testified that He is the Messiah, and some of the Pharisees believed but did not say anything lest they be put out of the synagogue, which the Pharisee Nicodemus said Jesus is of God for no man can do the works that He did unless God is with Him, which Jesus told the disciples that if they did not believe He is the Messiah by His words to believe that He is the Messiah by His works.

2) Ingathering of the Exiles (Isaiah 11:12) – Rambam: Jesus’ new religion caused further exile.

Israel has 70 weeks, 490 years, to make an end of sin, bring in everlasting righteousness, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, for Israel as a nation has to come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

The time began before Jesus came to earth for Israel was not in the truth for if they had been in the truth the Roman Empire would of not been able to rule over her, which 69 weeks has passed with 1 more week, 7 years to go, which is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the man of sin, New Age Christ, and when they do repentance and salvation is no longer available to them, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

For God always restores Israel and will do it again.

Which Israel is blinded in part, which they acknowledge the Old Testament for the majority but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved.

Which God will restore the kingdom back on earth to Israel which He said He will make a full end of all Gentile nations their ruling governments but not make a full end of Israel although they will not be fully unpunished.

Which the disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to the Jews at that time, and He said the Father will do it in His own time, but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.

Which God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jacob, all 12 tribes back to Israel, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, after they have borne their shame for their sins and iniquities against God, and He will leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again, and the heathen will know that the house of Israel went in to captivity for their sins but God was always on their side.

Which God said He has not cast off His people that He once foreknew, and there is always Hebrews in the truth.

God will restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews in the future, and all Israel will be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

3) Strengthening in Mitzvah Fulfillment (See Isaiah 2:3-4, 11:2-5; Yechezkel 36:2328, 37:24) – Rambam: The Christians [abolished the mitzvos and] created a new Torah.

I do not know what this means by new Torah but they are going by the New Testament which the Jews should be going by that.

And the Church does not replace Israel, for Israel is the Church that is spiritual now.

God said He would establish a new covenant with Israel that is spiritual and will cleanse their sins and they will never stray again.

Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.

The Bible says when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and are part of the commonwealth of Israel.

For Israel is the Church.

From Abraham to Israel to the Church to the millennial reign of Christ where the kingdom is restored to Israel and Israel the only operating government to the New Jerusalem where the 12 apostles of the Lamb and the 12 tribes of Israel are written in the New Jerusalem.

Israel is the Church, and it is only about Israel.

4) United worship of God (Tzefaniah 3:9) – After Christianity came Islam, not to mention countless sects within Christianity, not to mention much of the world whom are either atheists or idol-worshipers

I do not know what this means when before Christianity there was many false gods and false religions being practiced, and idol worship, and I do not know how it became a united worship of God when all the religions have their own beliefs.

And for the people that are trying to harmonize the religions this has nothing to do with Christianity, or any fault of it, or what came after, but because of the belief in evolution and science confirming it the occultists now interpret all religions according to the occult, and evolution, and believe people are still evolving to become greater and spiritual, and they want to establish a kingdom in the future for the New Age Christ.

Which God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and evolved to become an ascended master and avatar, and do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher which the Christ conscience will come upon him and he will evolve to be the greatest human exalting himself above all that is called God or is worshipped, and exalting himself above all, and will share this power with all people who follow him.

The Bible says the time will come that the world will only want to hear the word of God according to the new age movement.

But they believe the New Age Christ will not help them until the nations come together to work together for peace on earth, so they will try to harmonize the nations and religions to cause that to happen in hopes they will come together.

Evolution will cause the world to rebel against God and then He will end this sin business on earth, and restore the kingdom on earth to Israel.

5) Godly knowledge will fill the earth (Isaiah 11:9): After Jesus, ignorance of God and even of science and philosophy became the norm, as the Dark Ages set in.

That has nothing to do with how the future will go, and the Bible does not say that after Jesus comes all people will get along great following the truth and no false beliefs in the world, and Paul said evil men shall wax worse and worse.

Why do people think that because Jesus came that everybody in the world will comply to the truth for the Bible says there will be opposition and the world will get worse in false ways, and selfishness and arrogance wanting their own way.

Jesus said that people will fight over Him whether He is the Messiah or not, and whether the truth or not, and the world will be worse at the end time than at any other time in history of falsehood, and selfishness, and self exaltation.

The world has been battling against the truth for thousands of years, and they will keep battling against the truth, and Jesus coming to earth is not going to stop them battling against the truth.

And hypocrites do no damage to the Church for Jesus said that the hypocrites do not belong to Him, and there is no such thing as a hypocritical Christian, for a person cannot be a hypocrite and a Christian at the same time.

The Bible is very popular and so many people believe it is the truth, or partial truth, but many incorporate their own beliefs in to it for the Bible cannot be denied.

Like the Pharisees sent officers to take Jesus and they came back without Him, and the Pharisees said why did you not bring Him, and they said because no man spoke like this man before.

The Bible speaks with such authority that many people cannot deny it, but many want to hear it the way they want to hear it.

But that has nothing to do with any fault of the Bible or Christianity but the fault of the people that want to hear it their way.

Continued,
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,261
415
83
#6
Continued,

And don't say that...
Second coming: There’s not the slightest source for such an idea. But more fundamentally, one can make such a claim about any idiot in the street! That is, it can be said about any run-ofthe-mill person in the street that he’s the Messiah, and in regards to his not fulfilling anything that Mashiach’s supposed to do, it can simply be said that “That doesn’t prove anything, since he’ll accomplish all those things after he dies and then comes back to earth a second time.”

Jesus will set up His kingdom on earth after the 7 years period happens, 1 week, to fulfill the 70 weeks, 490 years period that Israel has to get in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, which Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.

Summary.

The man of sin, New Age Christ, will establish peace in the Middle East, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will see to it, and none of the Jews will be left in the nations anymore.

The Jews will have a new temple and go back to animal sacrifices for they are still blinded in part with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.

The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth, and the world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, and the new age movement that shall come out at the latter times which is real close to Jesus coming back will be a unified religious system based on evolution is religion their greatness and spirituality for they are still evolving, and all religions interpreted by the new age movement as acceptable.

For the first three and one half years repentance and salvation is still available to the world.

The 10 horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace on earth so the world turns to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth, and to evolve.

The New Age Christ will step in to the Jews temple and tell them to stop animal sacrifices and claim to be their God and Messiah.

The New Age Christ will deceive all people who do not love God to follow him, which God will send strong delusion to all people that do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ, and when they follow him and take the mark of the beast then repentance and salvation is no longer available to them and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in.

God will then send Israel 2 witnesses to turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and the ones that know the truth will work with those who do not know and at the end of the last three and one half years Israel as a nation will be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and they will say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord and they shall see Jesus.

The New Age Christ and the world will go against Jerusalem, and try to take out all of Israel, and Jesus will come back with all the saints and fight the world and defeat the world and save Israel.

The kingdom will be restored to Israel, and Jesus will rule out of Jerusalem, and in that day the LORD shall be King over all the earth, and there shall be one LORD and His name one, and the knowledge of the LORD shall fill the whole earth, and the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the LORD and keep the feast of tabernacles.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,112
637
113
#7
I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’re simply being provocative with this post. You already established what you would and would not accept, though Jesus doesn’t need mans testimony about him:

There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.
John 5:32-34

Hence you user name, I going to assume you are simply trolling and trying to cause derision.