Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

eternally-gratefull · Oct 18, 2016

A parable is not prophesy, nore is it trying to prophesy future events, is a form of speech used to hide a spiritual truth so only those seeking God can understand.

A prophesy is a word of God which says these events or this event will occur in the future. it is used to prove, The God of the universe is one true god.. vs the god of the pagan, Who can not prophesy future events,

You do not use the same type of hermeneutics to interpret both forms of language, They are not the same type.

ZacharyB · Oct 18, 2016

wolfwint said:

That's what so ridiculous about pre-trib ...
... Satan's wrath cannot be aimed at his most hated enemies,
which are no other than born-from-above believers!
Gee, they're so lucky to have been raptured out of here ... many and lols!

News Flash ...
The testing of the genuineness of our faith
is accomplished during the great tribulation
of our best buddy, the anti-Christ.
Are YOU ready?

garee · Oct 18, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Prophecy, the word of God uses parables and proverbs (same word) as patterns as a form of speech used to hide a spiritual truth so only those seeking God can understand.

Yes, it used to prove God is true an every man a liar. God is no longer bringing new prophecy.

It is all in respect to one form, prophecy, the poetic language of that God chose to use so we can walk by faith the unseen and not after our religious experiences, as that seen, the temporal..

2Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

The law of hermeneutics reflect the whole word of God.Without parable Christ, the Holy Spirit spoke not.

2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Quasar92 · Oct 18, 2016

PlainWord said:

To first of all, correct your rejection of the time gap between Dan.9:26 and 27.Review the following and understand there were more than 300 OT prophecies Jesus fulfilled in His first advent:

Critics of a Time Gap

Those who do not think that the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 have a literal and chronologically precise fulfillment are opposed to the postponement of the seventieth week as a yet future time of seven years. Examples of such criticism can be found by those within the Reconstructionist movement, holding to a form of preterist postmillennialism.

Gary DeMar complains

lacing a gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 "must be fixed" because of the system created by dispensationalists, not because the Bible mentions anything about a gap. . . . dispensationalists force the Bible to comply to an already developed system that insists that these events cannot be describing first-century events.
Fellow preterist, Dr. Ken Gentry echoes DeMar’s refrain in the following:

An overriding concern of the prophecy, in distinction to all other Messianic prophecies is that it is specifically designed to be a measuring time-frame. . . . If there were gaps between the units, the whole idea of measurement in the "seventy weeks" would vanish. An elastic yardstick is a worthless measure. None of the other prophecies brought forward as illustrations of a gap claim to be a measure of time.

Dr. Gentry is right about one thing, that the Daniel 9 passage is the only Messianic prophecy that specifically deals with chronology or the time element. While I believe that I have shown that the passage itself requires a chronological postponement between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years, it is also supported by other Messianic passages which are not specifically time oriented, but clearly do refer to distinct time-periods: Christ’s first coming and his second coming.

If anyone believes in the two comings of Christ, and both DeMar and Gentry do, then they also believe in a gap of time between the first and second coming of Christ. I want to show how this fits into a clear biblical pattern that in turn lends support to the notion of a gap of time in Daniel 9:24-27.

By Thomas Ice, PhD.

For full details of Scriptural gaps: The Thomas Ice Collection

Quasar02

Quasar92 · Oct 18, 2016

The chronological order of end times events outlined in the Bible:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.

15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.

Quasar92

eternally-gratefull · Oct 18, 2016

ZacharyB said:

That is what is so rediculous about people who have determined they are right at all costs. They make these simple mistakes.

Satans greates enemy is isreal (the woman) and we are told. that satan can not attack his greates enemy, as God protects her, So he then goes after her offspring.

Nothing says that if the rapture happens there will not be people who come to Christ. In fact, the rapture itself could cause millions to repent and come to Christ.

so your whole line of reasoning, which you think proves you right, Is flawed, and not even a line of reasoning at all. because it is easily broken.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 18, 2016

garee said:

1. Prophesy is its own form of language, and has its own means of interpretation.
2. Parables and proverbs also is a form of communication, and have their own forms of interpretation.

Yes I know, There is no more new prophecies, But there are alot of old prophesies which have yet to be fulfilled. That does not make them new. So not sure what your point was.

So when God said the suffering servant would come, Suffer a horrible death, ad be risen, That was a parable. not a prophesy?

what does this have to do with God saying these things will happen.

Did God lie?

Quasar92 · Oct 18, 2016

ZacharyB said:

To correct your misguided guessing over prophecy. Who do you think the tribulation martyrs/saints are in Rev.20:4? Who will all be beheaded by the Antichrist, because of their testimony for Jesus during the tribulation! Whom Satan will give His throne, power and great authority to, as recorded in Rev.13:1-2! Israel is Satan's primary target, because they are the ones who produced, by God's choice, their Messiah. Jesus. who will destroy him. Review Rev.12 below:

The Woman and the Dragon

12:[SUP]2 "[/SUP]She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. [SUP]5 [/SUP]She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[SUP][a][/SUP] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]They triumphed over him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. [SUP]14 [/SUP]The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."

Quasar92

PlainWord · Oct 18, 2016

Quasar92 said:

DeMar and Gentry make pretty compelling arguments against a 2,000 year break. But like I said, it doesn't matter a whole lot. The GT is found in Dan 11:32-45. From the time the wailing wall is defiled until Christ returns is 3.66 years so it works out to be almost the same.

For those who believe in two comings of Christ, notice the question the disciples asked did not contain two comings, but rather one coming. If there really is to be two comings, Christ ignored the first in His answer and only provided the second. This is weird because true Christians (according to you) won't be around for the second so why only tell us of the signs that don't matter? Instead, Christ should have told us signs of the first coming if that's the one that is applicable to us.

You are so out of gas Brother Quasar!!

Bladerunner · Oct 18, 2016

PlainWord said:

ok Plainword:

You doubt the Break in the 69-70 weeks of Daniel.

Consider this. In Daniel 9:25, the time period is (to) the entrance of Jesus Christ at Jerusalem and it ends when the Rapture Happens.
the antichrist cannot rise into the spotlight until the Church (Holy Spirit) is gone from this earth. He (antichrist) has to take some amount of time to convince the countries to name him as Chief in Charge! How long this will take is not known but to make a covenant with Israel (about land), he has to be the Chief in Charge. As Quasar** said, the Tribulations does NOT start until the Covenant is made and I am pretty sure it will not start on day 1 after the rapture.

I will say this,,,I hope you have a plan B. By that I mean, If I and many others are wrong (and we are not), we still believe in Jesus and upon our deaths, we will be in Heaven waiting for him to return and give us our new bodies.

On the other Hand, If I and Others are right (and we are), then you had better have a plan because you are going to be one of those virgins who was not looking for the lord but went to get Oil for their lamps. After the Rapture Arrives and is Gone in a "Twinkling of an EYE" there is only two choices to get to heaven. Be a martyr for His name or be converted by the 144,000 and live through the tribulation (part I) at the very least.

You Choice,,,choose well my friend.

PlainWord · Oct 18, 2016

This is old school thought. World events are showing that another interpretation is correct. First off, I totally reject Dan 9 as having anything to do with the GT or the Abomination of Desolation. Dan 9 was all about Christ and things he accomplished. That said, go to Dan 11 to find the Abomination of Desolation. Start at verse 11:31 and read all the way through Dan 12. The GT is found right after the A of D is set up. God's Wrath is poured out at the start of Dan 12, followed by the Resurrection and Rapture.

Nobody is going to heaven while still alive. I used to think as you do, but now have much greater insight. I'm putting together passages and pointing out key events. Each passage aligns perfectly to the below from Dan 11-12, especially Mat 24 which is spot on. Not all passages discuss all the events. Dan 11-12 is the KEY prophesy as it relates to Israel in the last days and the Man of Sin, AKA King of the North.

Enjoy.

bluto · Oct 18, 2016

bluto said:

Were making stuff up popeye! I still have not recieved a biblical answer of where you "insert" the pre-trib rapture anywhere in what Jesus said at Matthew 24? The question is at vs3, "When is Your coming and the end of the age?" No where in the chapter does Jesus indicate, "Before all these things take place please be advised that I will come for you so we can have the Lamb's supper and things in the world get worse just like in the days of Noah (vs37) and then "zap" your raptured?"

And btw, are you going to be a blessed slave working when Jesus comes popeye? Read Matthew 24:46, "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes." Or are you going to be saying, "Pass the salt and does anyone have a toothpick?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bumped for popeye or anyone else that can tell me where in Matthew 24 is the pre-trib rapture?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Ahwatukee · Oct 18, 2016

bluto said:

Hello Bluto,

You won't find it! And that because the Olivet Discourse is not about the gathering of the church, but about what will be happening on earth during that last seven years with the focus being on Israel and the great tribulation saints. At this time the church will have already been gathered. In support of this, if you will notice, In Matt.24:15, Jesus makes reference to the abomination that causes the desolation being set up in the holy place, which according to Dan.9:27 takes place in the middle of the seven years. When those who are in Israel see the abomination sitting in the temple, they are to flee out into the desert, because this is the time when that ruler, the antichrist/beast will have stopped the their sacrifices that he will have made possible and will set up that abomination in the holy place. This also the time that Paul spoke about in 2 thes.2:4 when that antichrist/beast will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God. The Olivet Discourse is about Israel. The information that Jesus is giving is regarding that seven year time period, which will take place after the church has been gathered.

Where Matt.24:15 marks the middle of the seven years, Matt.24:29-31 marks the end of that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period, when Christ returns to the earth to end the age. All of those signs will take place in that last generation leading up to Christ's return to end the age. In fact, according to Rev.19:11-21, those who will have previously been resurrected and changed and caught up, will be returning with the Lord in Matt.24:30-31. That characteristic is not specifically mentioned here in Matt.24:29-31, but it is mentioned in Rev.19:14 as those who are riding on white horses wearing fine linen, white and clean following Christ out of heaven. At that time he will also send his angels out and they will first gather all who sin and do evil and will bring them back (one taken) to where Christ is where they will all be killed by that double-edged sword. There the birds who will have been gathered together will gorge themselves on their flesh, which is what Christ meant when replying to his disciples when he said, "Wherever the dead body is, there will the vultures/birds be gathered."

wolfwint · Oct 19, 2016

ZacharyB said:

Why you are so sarcastic and hurt others because of their believe? You must not believe what pretribs believe! Just wait what happend!
Yes, i hope we all are ready to all time. Because the time of rapture is more near then we maby think.

garee · Oct 19, 2016

The rapture, the second and final resurrection will occur on the last day which is also judgment day the end of the corrupted world as we know it.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.John 11:24

We are in the last days and no limbo in between.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Joh 12:48

The antichrists (plural) which reveals the nature of the beast, the man of sin under the influence of the god of this world, who has no form was already working in the affairs of men seducing men to believe they did need a man to teach us. Making the promised teaching, comforting, and guiding of the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God to no effect. That defines the anti christ (singular) Satan's methodology for deceiving the whole world.

The abomination that causes the desolation began when Christ said;"it is finished". It was the beginning of Jacobs trouble the new order of the last days..the time of the reformation .Twice in the verse below Christ declared it is the last time.and not second from last.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Jacobs trouble began the moment Christ said; "it is finished". This is when Christ the Holy Spirit voluntarily of His own free will gave up His Spirit and it returned to the father. God cannot die.

Leaves represent the healing power of God of all the nations. It was never in respect to the sinful corrupted flesh of men. God is no respecter of persons. Fruit was not found, the refomation had come.

He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. Luk 13:6

And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee” henceforward for ever”. And presently the fig tree withered away.And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! Mat 21:19

I would ask? How long is henceforth forever ?

PlainWord · Oct 19, 2016

The Great Tribulation did not start at the time of Jesus or in 70 AD. It hasn't even begun yet. Garee, you are wrong about this. Jesus gives signs that must be fulfilled prior to the Abomination of Desolation (A of D). One of those signs was: The Gospel must be preached in all the world" THEN THE END COMES. This sign couldn't have been said to be done at the Cross or 70 AD, but can be said today.

Further, the A of D, according to Dan 11 is placed at the sanctuary fortress, the Kotel ha-Ma'aravi (in other words, the wall surrounding the temple). According to Daniel when this happens, the daily prayers (sacrifices) will cease. Muslims have a history of defiling this wall but not ending the prayers which began around 324 AD. Muslims would pile garbage at the wall to humiliate the Jews praying there. They used the area as a garbage dump for 1,000 years.

The Western Wall (or Wailing Wall) is considered the holiest site in all of Israel except for the Temple Mount itself which no Jew or Christian is permitted to pray. Riots were common at the wall for many years. In 1929 a big riot broke out between Jews and Muslims were 133 Jews were killed and 339 injured. After the 1948 Israeli-Arab War the eastern part of Jerusalem (including the Wall) was occupied by Jordan. All prayers were stopped because Jews were banned until the Six Day war of 1967.

Immediately after the Six Day War, the Jews bulldozed the Moroccan Quarter making the plaza that is there today. Anyone wanting to do something to infuriate the Jews would defile the wall. In the past, under Antiochus IV, the altar of the temple was desecrated by sacrificing pigs. The temple was finally purged and cleaned after the Maccabees Revolt as told in Dan 8. Therefore, I am convinced that Muslims will do something like pouring pig blood on the wall, ending the prayers and thus starting the 1,290 day period leading up to the Great Tribulation which lasts just 45 days, or less because those days are shortened.

Quasar92 · Oct 19, 2016

PlainWord said:

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]My response was to your flat out denial of the gap between the 69th and 70th weeks, you now wriggle in another direction, with the remark that it "doesn't matter much." Why then did you bring it up in the first place, genius?

Were there time gaps between all of the more than 300 OT prophecies about Jesus, and the time He fulfilled them during His first advent? Yes or no! Is there a gap of time between Jesus first advent and the time He makes His second? Yes or no ? As there is now, between the 69th and 70th weeks, or between Dan.9: 26 and 27l Which is too heavy for you to man-up and admit you are wrong, because the Scriptures refute your false views!

Then your insulting remark that I'm "out of gas!" The fact of the matter is, you're full of gas! All of which comes from a classic false prophet!

Quasar92

[/FONT]

ZacharyB · Oct 19, 2016

Quasar92 said:

It's the age-olde story ... Americans think they are special ... yes, they were
very special to God originally, butski now they are an abomination to Him).
... ergo dey gets ta have a free pass on tribulation.

Lets' see, you guys get a free pass, butski believers after da rapture don't get one.
To wit ... after da rapture, believers get beheaded and are da martyrs of Rev 20:4.
Okay, I get it ... many and lols.

Sorry, but you're wrong ... PREPARE for the tribulation!

P.S. I'm no eschatology expert, but I know some stuff about it in my spirit.

PlainWord · Oct 19, 2016

Why wouldn't I deny a 2000+ year break that isn't taught? You add an additional return of Christ also not taught and cannot be found anywhere. So for you to add a break that isn't taught is not surprising either. There is no passage where two separate returns are taught. So you and all these other foolish men you like to quote, have decided that the Word of God as written isn't good enough and that God's plans as plainly stated are faulty so you insert anything you want, any time you want and in any passage you want to make the Word say what you want it to say. This altering of the Word is beyond irresponsible, it is outright dangerous and offensive!!

The reason I brought it up is because you are in the wrong passage. Dan 9 is over!!! Stop going there to find end times events. Go to Dan 11-12, the real place the A of D is found. But let's be clear, the actual Great Tribulation that Jesus discusses in Mat 24 does not last 7 years or even 3.5 years. It actually last < 45 days as specifically and clearly taught in Dan 12. The Beginnings of sorrows starts before the GT and encompasses the defiling of the wall (which hasn't happened yet). From the time the wall is defiled and daily prayers cease there will be 1,290 days of absolute mayhem in Israel but nothing like the short GT period to follow.

You will likely look upon this 1,290 day mayhem period as the GT because of your limited Biblical understanding (much of which is 100% wrong!!). So you will have to come to grips with the errors of your teachings when the Wall is defiled, but you will still be partly wrong. The GT does not start until the A of D is set up at the Wall, then Israel will be invaded by overwhelming Muslim (and possibly Russian) forces.

I am making none of this up. It is clearly taught, as clear as the nose on your face in Dan 12. Here it is:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

You do the math, genius!!

But you totally ignore Dan 12 because it also includes the resurrection for the just and unjust and locates it after the GT and Wrath and that you simply CANNOT ALLOW.

bluto · Oct 19, 2016

Well ahwatukee, you can say Matthew 24 is not about the gathering of the church but when Jesus said at Matthew 24:3, "the end of the age" why does Luke 21:35 say, "for it will come upon all those WHO DWELL ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH." And since the GT has not occured the church has been dwelling on the earth since the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Now, this means to me that you still cannot tell me when the pre-trib rapture takes place any place any where in Matthew 24. So here is another question for you? Would you say that the Apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians or even at 1 Thessalonians backs up every word that Jesus Christ stated at Matthew 24? At Revelation 20:4-5 says, which is the within the time frame of the GT says, "This is the first resurrection." And the devil is not bound until AFTER the tribulation.

And your saying these are the tribulation saints? How do you know they are the tribulation saints unless you first "assume" the church is gone? And if you assume the church is gone that would be illogical because you are arguing in a circle. Your begging the question? If you make them the tribulation saints you have to prove it not assume it. In short, this is what is known as circular reasoning.

Like I have said in the past, if you were an apostle writing to the church (the Apostle John) would you warn about somebody (the antichrist singular) they were not going to see because you have been raptured? And also like I said, when does "REST/RELIEF" come at 2 Thessalonains 1:7? "And to give rest/rest to you who are afflicted and to us as well WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire," The Apostle Paul expands on this in the rest of the chapter as well as backing up the words of Jesus Christ from Matthew 24 at 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

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