Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.

[popeye]

No offence, but the only one with problems is you friend.....

1. Jesus was not raptured he ASCENDED
2. Only two groups called first fruits....Jesus and the 144,000 who are listed in 2 and only two locations when John wrote Revelation....in heaven following the Lord withersoever he goes and on Mount ZION when HE is on Mount ZION..show two verses in in context that state that the patriarchs were (raptured)
3. The main harvest is listed in Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, 1st Thessalonians, 1st Corinthians, 2nd Thessalonians and it is placed AFTER the GREAT tribulation of THOSE days....
4. Corners and gleaners....what fantasy land are you living in.....EVEN the parable of the tares and wheat places the gathering AFTER GOD begins to move against the TARES.....there is ONLY 1 GENERAL resurrection and in gathering of the saints of God...Blessed is he that hath part in the 1st resurrection<---Revelation 20.......!
5. The two witnesses are resurrected and taken up at the end of the Great tribulation (my view) they are Elijah and Enoch and as two saints found under the law must die before the resurrection and will die prior to the general resurrection and be brought back with the saints that have died in Christ<--the dead in Christ will rise first..

Look...I used to believe in the immanent return as that is what I had always been taught.....then after 25 years of study I changed my mind....no one will change my stance as the bible teaches a post tribulation resurrection/change at the 7th trump...now if you are open to learning and instruction, read my 212 page book in my blog on this site and then tell me I have problems....

3. The main harvest is listed in Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, 1st Thessalonians, 1st Corinthians, 2nd Thessalonians and it is placed AFTER the GREAT tribulation of THOSE days...

The only gathering AFTER the gt are those gathered BY ANGELS,NOT JESUS...FROM HEAVEN.

THERE IS NO POSTRIB RAPTURE AND YOU HAVE ZERO VERSES TO DEFEND THAT TIRED DUSTY NOTION.

Noah,lot and the bride /groom dimension,all must be twisted to fit postrib rapture.

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by popeye

I would have to agree.

As I pointed out some time ago,the christians ,in ad 70 rembered these words and were spared the jewish fate from the roman army. they did see the army circling the city and did flee

The temple in AD 70 was not desecrated, it was destroyed. Nobody stood there in AD 70 claiming to be "above all called God." Most of the disciples were dead by AD 70 including Paul who wrote about the Man of Sin.

I am not making any of those assertions.

 

[MarcR]

If there were Scriptures that proved the post-trib rapture, or any of the other rapture positions; the debate would have been settled long ago. There is no reason to suppose that our generation is far more intelligent than those who have gone before us!

Making arrogant statements that foreclose debate is not what discussion is about.

 

[popeye]

If there were Scriptures that proved the post-trib rapture, or any of the other rapture positions; the debate would have been settled long ago. There is no reason to suppose that our generation is far more intelligent than those who have gone before us!

Making arrogant statements that foreclose debate is not what discussion is about.

The only statements that foreclose debate is "God showed me,God told me"

But My response would be "he has/hasn't shown me"

........so we look to the word. Without which,there is no plumb line.

 

[Jesusone]

LOL I love the nerve of this guy. He's so sure his idea on this matter (that has been argued for I'm sure hundreds of years by scholars and laymen alike) is true, that if you disagree with him, you're disrespecting the whole of Christianity.

I wholeheartedly agree. We shouldn't debate with him, because he's absolutely 100% right, and there's no disagreeing with him, because he said so. I'm not gonna disagree with him, no way man, I don't want to disrespect my brothers and sisters in Christ by giving my side of the argument.

This guy is the supreme and final authority on the matter. He's like the supreme ayatollah in Iran. What he says can't be argued with. He said so himself; it's not up for debate! If you have a question, sure, go for it, but woe unto those who try to make the case for the other side of the coin! Woe I say!

And Thaddeus, how dare you contradict him! Did you not get the message? You have no respect for your brothers and sisters in Christ! I think an excommunication is in order! Now where did I put my torch and pitchfork...

That's very loving of you man. He's correct and the Scriptures prove it.

 

[valiant]

we are ALL right. Its just that we disagree with each other fundamentally. lol

its a good job the Lord doesn't depend on our interpretations

 

[DP]

Next I will show two more things #1 that the wicked are destroyed by fire at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ, and #2 that the rapture is on the same day that Christ return at the end of the Tribulation to destroy the wicked.

#1 The destruction of the wicked by fire at the post trib 2nd coming.
Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he ( John the Baptist) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree that brings forth not good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
There is only three times in the New Testament that the phrase ''wrath to come'' is mentioned. Once in 1st Thessalonians 1:10, once here in Matthew 3:7 and in Luke 3:7 which is telling the same story about John the Baptist warning the masses of the wrath that is to come. So what is the ''wrath to come'' that he was warning them from? It is the purging of the floor mentioned in verse 12. It is the baptism of fire when the wicked will be overwhelmed by fire at the return of Jesus, it is the burning of the chaff which will occur when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. The wrath to come that Jesus has delivered us from by his death and resurrection, is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the second coming of Christ.
　
1st Thessalonians 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
The destruction of the wicked is not a prolonged seven years period, but it is sudden destruction that will come upon them when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming.
　
2nd Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
When Jesus returns He is coming in power and great glory, the tribes of the earth shall mourn and every one that is not in Christ including the anti christ will be destroyed immediately by the brightness of His coming.
　
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
The wrath to come is the judgment of God were He will destroy all His adversaries with a fiery indignation, when Jesus returns, not the entire tribulation period.
　
2nd Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up.
This doesn't sound like a pretrib event, there wouldn't be anything left to live on earth for the next seven years. The day of the Lord is a post tribulational event. Where Jesus will destroy all with fire, but first he will resurrect the dead in Christ and catch away the living saints.
　
I have shown that the wrath is the fiery destruction of the wicked which occurs at the return of Christ. It is not the tribulation period itself. Next, I will give scripture that shows that the second coming, the resurrection of the just, the rapture of the living saints and the destruction of the wicked by fire happen all at once.

#2 The rapture is at the post rib 2nd coming on the same day Christ return to deatroy the wicked.
Pretrib ''Theologians'' boldly proclaim that when ever the second coming is mentioned, there is no mention of the church being raptured, and when ever the rapture is mentioned there is no mention of the destruction of the wicked. Well, I have four passages of scripture that will eliminate that myth once and for all. The first text I will use is Matthew 3:12, I will revisit the words of John the baptist.
Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Notice that when Jesus comes to purge His floor, He first gathers the wheat and then burns the chaff. This is what will occur at the second coming. When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will resurrect the just, rapture the saints, and then burn the wicked with an unquenchable fire.
　
Matthew 24:37-41
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field one taken, and the other left.
41 Two woman shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left.
The flood came and took them away when they were unaware, so will the coming of Christ be, but this next flood will be a flood of fire. At this point, at the post trib second coming when Jesus is returning to destroy the wicked is when the rapture takes place. Verse 40 and 41 declare THEN will one be taken and the other left, not before the return of Christ, but at it.
　
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
The very day Noah entered the ark the flood came and destroyed them all, once again it was not a seven year prolonged period of destruction but it was immediate, the very day the righteous were removed.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
It very clear the SAME DAY Noah went on the ark the flood came and destroyed them all. The SAME DAY Lot was taken, out of Sodom fire and brimstone rain from heaven and destroyed them all. The text says this is exactly how it will be when Jesus returns. The very SAME DAY Jesus returns at His post trib second coming is the very SAME DAY we will be taken out or '' raptured '' and it is the very SAME DAY He will destroy the wicked. This will be confirmed in my next text 2nd Thessalonins 1:6-10 as well.
　
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.
We receive our rest when Jesus is revealed with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God. In other words we are raptured at the post trib second coming when Jesus returns to destroy the wicked with fire. Lets look at verse 7 and 8 again.
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
There is no question that this passage places the post trib second coming, the rapture of the saints, and the destruction of the wicked all at the very same time. The pretib ''Theologian'' that claims the Bible never says as much, must of missed this passage. We cannot ignore God's word, so I choose to ignore the pretrib ''Theologian''.

Well laid out. Couldn't have done better myself.

 

[popeye]

Sorry pre-tribbers, but the far majority of great bible men and scholars in history have believed post-trib.

Don't you know the origins of pre-trib rapture came from Darby and prophetic revelations and not sound biblical exegesis? Pre-trib mustn't believe in sola-scriptura then afterall. If you believe in sola scriptura and pre-trib rapture, it's sort of a contradiction given pre-trib rapture idea never came from scripture in the first place.

Where is the traceable history of pre-trib rapture doctrine back to the early church times? You can't provide it. You'll find it came into christian in about the 1800's. Luther never heard of it, neither Calvin. John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, George Whitefield were all post-tribbers.

I'm partial preterist myself I guess but the post-tribbers have it over the pre-trib when it comes a) doctrinal traceability through history and b) scriptural interpretation.

Jesus said in the world you shall have tribulation:
Joh 16:33These thingsIhavespokenuntoyou,thatinmeyemighthavepeace.Intheworldyeshallhavetribulation:butbe of good cheer;Ihaveovercometheworld.

In the words of Corrie Ten Boom, a Nazi concentration camp survivor wrote in 1974:

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

<B>In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint."
​

</B>
In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

Israel becoming a nation woke up the Berean. Those early church fathers were not infallible. The Catholics,which join you in the anti-pretrib campaign murdered and burned out heretics (those brothers that disagreed) and burned their writings along with them

So your early church writings are censored by heretics.
IOW,IT IS YOU GUYS THAT GET YOUR DOCTRINE FROM SKEWED SOURCES WHO DID NOT SEE ISRAEL BECOME A NATION.

 

[popeye]

Well laid out. Couldn't have done better myself.

Of course. Remove our verses and POOOOF! postrib is a slam dunk

 

[popeye]

The only gathering AFTER the gt are those gathered BY ANGELS,NOT JESUS...FROM HEAVEN.

THERE IS NO POSTRIB RAPTURE AND YOU HAVE ZERO VERSES TO DEFEND THAT TIRED DUSTY NOTION.

Noah,lot and the bride /groom dimension,all must be twisted to fit postrib rapture.

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Jesusone]

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
God (and His Word) said it, I believe it, and that settles it!

 

[popeye]

Always note their refusal to be full gospel.

Postrib s will never go to rev 19,or reference the last supper,or the verses that reference the AC KILLING EVERY HUMAN ON THE PLANET REFUSING THE MARK.

They have zero traction. Examine their doctrine. It is error by omission big time.

In fact,I will become one of them,gladly,if those omissions,along with the escape verses,lot,Noah,the bride/bridegroom dimension,the church in heaven,the marriage supper,the bride becoming the wife in heaven,the last supper,and others that they will NOT bring to the table.

Look at their teaching by their leaders.THEY ARE VOID OF THOSE CONCEPTS/VERSES.

btw,they totally made up the u turn in the clouds to mount rider less horses.
Blatant mutilation of God's word.

 

[popeye]

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
God (and His Word) said it, I believe it, and that settles it!

Amen sir. I agree

 

[Jesusone]

Matthew 24:20-31 (vs 12-14*, *22-25); Mark 13:24-27 (vs 19, 26-27); 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17; 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3; Mark 13:13, and Revelation 2:26; 2nd Peter 3:10; Luke 17:26-30; to name a few.... again

 

[jb]

its a good job the Lord doesn't depend on MY interpretations...

This is very true! lol

 

[lorena]

I have been studying this myself. Before I go any further, I will say that post-trib believers have missed the first group of verses that say the elect will be gathered from the four winds. NOT the earth. They already have left the earth. Also it says the SIGN of the son of man will appear. This is contrary to the Rapture where the saints will be taken so quickly, no one will see Jesus, only the evidence of their departure. Also Rev 3:10 says he will spare us from the tribulation. I have studied the greek and there is even more evidence for PRE trib as opposed to anything else.

 

[Ahwatukee]

LOL I love the nerve of this guy. He's so sure his idea on this matter (that has been argued for I'm sure hundreds of years by scholars and laymen alike) is true, that if you disagree with him, you're disrespecting the whole of Christianity.

I wholeheartedly agree. We shouldn't debate with him, because he's absolutely 100% right, and there's no disagreeing with him, because he said so. I'm not gonna disagree with him, no way man, I don't want to disrespect my brothers and sisters in Christ by giving my side of the argument.

This guy is the supreme and final authority on the matter. He's like the supreme ayatollah in Iran. What he says can't be argued with. He said so himself; it's not up for debate! If you have a question, sure, go for it, but woe unto those who try to make the case for the other side of the coin! Woe I say!

And Thaddeus, how dare you contradict him! Did you not get the message? You have no respect for your brothers and sisters in Christ! I think an excommunication is in order! Now where did I put my torch and pitchfork...

#1 that the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation, and #2 that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.

Though the OP was correct on point #1, he was in error on point #2. Prior to Christ's return to the earth to end the age, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place. In relation to this, Jesus does not return until after the 7th bowl has been poured out. Since the wrath of God stands in between right now and the Lord's return to end the age, the church must be gathered prior to that wrath, which is initiated by the first seal being opened.

One of the biggest problems with interpreting end-times, is not recognizing the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to end the age. If this is not recognized, then the expositor will always be in error.

Scripture states that 1) Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10), and 2) that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath (1 Thes.5:9) and 3) Jesus said that he would keep believers "out of" the coming time of wrath (Rev.3:10).

The underlying principal regarding this is that, Jesus took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve, satisfying it completely and fully. Consequently, if we were to go through God's wrath, it would be like a double payment, as though the wrath that Jesus experienced for us was of no value.

The church will be gathered prior to that first seal being opened, which by the way will be opened by Jesus, the one who tramples the wine-press of the wrath of God Almighty.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sorry pre-tribbers, but the far majority of great bible men and scholars in history have believed post-trib.

Don't you know the origins of pre-trib rapture came from Darby and prophetic revelations and not sound biblical exegesis? Pre-trib mustn't believe in sola-scriptura then afterall. If you believe in sola scriptura and pre-trib rapture, it's sort of a contradiction given pre-trib rapture idea never came from scripture in the first place.

Where is the traceable history of pre-trib rapture doctrine back to the early church times? You can't provide it. You'll find it came into christian in about the 1800's. Luther never heard of it, neither Calvin. John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, George Whitefield were all post-tribbers.

I'm partial preterist myself I guess but the post-tribbers have it over the pre-trib when it comes a) doctrinal traceability through history and b) scriptural interpretation.

Jesus said in the world you shall have tribulation:
Joh 16:33These thingsIhavespokenuntoyou,thatinmeyemighthavepeace.Intheworldyeshallhavetribulation:butbe of good cheer;Ihaveovercometheworld.

In the words of Corrie Ten Boom, a Nazi concentration camp survivor wrote in 1974:

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

<B>In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint."
​

</B>
In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

Oh no! The Darby apologetic again! Never read him, nor MacDonald nor Scofield. One would have to study Darby and adopt his teaching in order for your claim to be true. That said, I do and have always done my own studies and that is where I came to my understanding that the church must be gathered prior to the wrath of God, which is initiated by that first seal being opened. Believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore will be removed according to the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thes.4:13-18.