Serious question

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L

LPT

Guest
#21
It is interesting to note that the Latin word legio was commonly used as a loan word in Hebrew and Aramaic to indicate a large number.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#22
So that's assuming one demon per pig to make deviled ham? :p
Hehe to funny, yes indeed an assumption there could of been a 3 demon little pig lol...
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,406
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#23
In my studies I found out some info towards this event. Mind you it's a theroy.

Asking not to be cast out of the country could be in reference to the abyss. As they were tempting Jesus to fail in his ministry.
Jesus said he had not come to judge.

Asking not to be cast out of the country could mean the dry place Jesus talks about. Having the forknowledge of what the pigs would do could be is why Jesus allowed it.

Which ever reason you pick is up to you but let me leave you with this....it's possible the people in this place were Jewish or at least outcast Jews. Selling Swain for a living. Of course we know the law so......they could never enter the temple. Unclean.
After seeing their profits over the cliff is a reason why they begged him to leave.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#24
In my studies I found out some info towards this event. Mind you it's a theroy.

Asking not to be cast out of the country could be in reference to the abyss. As they were tempting Jesus to fail in his ministry.
Jesus said he had not come to judge.

Asking not to be cast out of the country could mean the dry place Jesus talks about. Having the forknowledge of what the pigs would do could be is why Jesus allowed it.

Which ever reason you pick is up to you but let me leave you with this....it's possible the people in this place were Jewish or at least outcast Jews. Selling Swain for a living. Of course we know the law so......they could never enter the temple. Unclean.
After seeing their profits over the cliff is a reason why they begged him to leave.
In modern times we can see sort of the same thing, the people didn’t want Jesus there because of what he did was not what they were use too, they rather have their pigs and deal with the demon possessed than Jesus bothering their life as they knew it. They didn’t want the healing. what they wanted was what they wanted.
 

obedienttogod

Active member
Jan 3, 2019
614
214
43
#25
The interesting part I find revealing, the demons first asked Jesus if He was going to torture them before the TIME?

29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

It's fascinating to understand the Demons know what their final destination is. They knew this while as GOOD angels and still chose to follow our Adversary. They know they will be tortured for all eternity. They know there is coming a TIME they will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever.

This is what makes our enemy most dangerous. They know they are on a time limit. That makes them desperate and willing to do whatever it takes to bring as many humans to eternal damnation with them.

This is why this is WAR against our enemy, because we should be just as desperate to save the lost as the demons are desperate to send them to eternal damnation!!
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,731
403
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#26
A few things happened here. First it demonstrated Christ’s authority. Secondly, I showed that unclean spirits would rather inhabit any living vessel, (even one not treated great, destined for slaughter) opposed to being in open air. Thirdly, it dismisses this event as being mental illness. It gives validation to demonic possession.

As to what happened to the pigs: from my little knowledge of demon possession, it is more of a gradual thing, increasing in severity, as our soul losses strength. The pigs might have acted on their own, struck in confusion about the whole ordeal. Or, possibly death opens a gate? There is animal sacrifices connecting the living to the spirit world. Maybe they entered a different realm. Maybe Christ didn’t like the smell of the pigs. If anyone lived near a pig farm they would understand. They are very dirty and when you group them, they eat each others feces, causing health problems in the meat. That’s why you have to eat it well done. All kinds of possibilities.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
311
119
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#27
Hey! maverich... : )
Mt 12:43 "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none."

I suspect that the blood pumping in a man gives the unclean spirits rest from a horrid feeling of dryness, without which there is no rest for them.

The pig keepers fled to town when the pigs drowned themselves after being filled with the demoniac named legion's cast out spirits. The towns people came to see what happened and found the demoniac clothed and in his right mind and the herd of pigs gone and were filled with a great fear and asked Jesus to depart from them. The demoniac asked to go with Jesus, but Jesus told him no, but rather to go and tell the people there what God had done for him.
Jesus came back some time later and those same people brought out all their sick to him to be healed. So that the things that happened regarding the demoniac named legion and the herd of pigs, and his being sent to tell them what the Lord had done for him, prepared them for a miracle the next time that Jesus came to them.
PTL!
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
8,723
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#28
At the gaderenes the demons called legion asked to not be sent out of the territory.
Did Jesus give mercy to legion by allowing them into the pigs.
I believe that they ended up out of the territory, but Jesus show mercy
I would think the focus is on the man whose house was cleansed of lying spirits, as a picture of the gospel .

Allowing them into the pigs as unclean animal represent natural unconverted men .Into a lake represents the lake of fire . This is the second death.

Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and uke were choked.Luke 8:33
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
3,847
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#29
The abyss i would say, showing them no mercy?! 😘
if that's the case then what does His teaching about an evil spirit being cast out, going through dry places and then returning tell us?
that the demons can come and go fro. the abyss at will?

it seems to me we shouldn't necessarily equate the abyss with dry places.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
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#31
In Mark 5 there’s a mentioning of how many pigs headed to the water, I assume each one had a demon
*at least one

i wouldn't assume there's a 1:1 relationship between demons and pigs quantity, tho it could be, but it does seem like a sound inference that all the pigs were possessed by at least one demon. to me there's not enough information to show whether or not for example one demon possessed 5 pigs at once or 5 demons in a single pig.

you could argue the number of pigs gives a lower bound for number of demons by saying common sense is one demon can't possess more than one creature simultaneously, but in reality i think this is an assumption; i don't know if that is proven in scripture anywhere...?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
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#32
I wouldn't think so. Notice where Jesus mentions 'man' twice and never pig or realm?...

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. (Matthew 12:43-45 KJV)

inconclusive in my opinion
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
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#33
Asking not to be cast out of the country could mean the dry place Jesus talks about. Having the forknowledge of what the pigs would do could be is why Jesus allowed it
pretty easy to overcook pork, and then it's dry


'thought for food' hehehe
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
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#34
Which ever reason you pick is up to you but let me leave you with this....it's possible the people in this place were Jewish or at least outcast Jews. Selling Swain for a living. Of course we know the law so......they could never enter the temple. Unclean.
After seeing their profits over the cliff is a reason why they begged him to leave.
i was under the impression that the people here would have been Samaritans. is that correct?

interesting that by doing this Jesus is wiping out someone's livelihood - and that He is ministering to people that orthodox Jewry consider to be more or less gentile
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
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#35
In modern times we can see sort of the same thing, the people didn’t want Jesus there because of what he did was not what they were use too, they rather have their pigs and deal with the demon possessed than Jesus bothering their life as they knew it. They didn’t want the healing. what they wanted was what they wanted.

my wife has been involved in local ministry effort to show love to strippers. it's similar in that many club owners don't want their employees to be evangelized because they know it threatens their livelihood
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
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#36
I would think the focus is on the man whose house was cleansed of lying spirits, as a picture of the gospel .

Allowing them into the pigs as unclean animal represent natural unconverted men .Into a lake represents the lake of fire . This is the second death.

Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and uke were choked.Luke 8:33

where does the Bible compare men to pigs? I know of references to dogs, bulls, jackals, and donkeys as metaphors for people. not that I doubt you just can't think of if there is a passage that makes the analogy to corroborate
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#37
Scripture seems to express about 2,000 pigs bolted to the water.
The word legion simply mean many. When one comes they all come .You could say unity of the lying spirit the god of this world.


A good example in found in 1 Samuel 28 . as a source of necromancy seeking after familiar spirits of the departed

And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.! Samuel 28:6-14

There the mediator of necromancy called a witch when seeking the departed asked who she should call up ? When Saul said Samuel she was afraid .Saul tried to comfort her and said what did you see? And she said; I saw gods (legion) ascending out of the earth as in many or again establishing the legion. Saul then asked what form, she gave him a description An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle and then Saul believed it was Samuel.using the form a image idol (teraphim) to but a face of the legion to help distinguish with one of the legion .

Rachel used those kind idol images that she robbed from her father to also put a face on the legion as workers with familiar spirits .

Catholisicim has over 3,500 workers with familiar spirits that make up the legion and adding more and more as time increases as that they call patron saints.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#38
where does the Bible compare men to pigs? I know of references to dogs, bulls, jackals, and donkeys as metaphors for people. not that I doubt you just can't think of if there is a passage that makes the analogy to corroborate
ceremonial unclean to represent those who do not have the born again Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God.

“‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.Leviticus 11:4 -8
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#39
if that's the case then what does His teaching about an evil spirit being cast out, going through dry places and then returning tell us?
that the demons can come and go fro. the abyss at will?

it seems to me we shouldn't necessarily equate the abyss with dry places.
Not sure that all of that applies here but it may??! Jesus is God Who has come to clean the house, the symbolic imagery Of evil spirits being cast into unclean swine then being driven mad, rush off a cliff, down to water below or the abyss. God is not here to have mercy upon the 😈 or his ilk. God has arrived and everything has changed! 😋
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
1,366
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#40
Casting pearls before swine?
A fool returns to his folly, a dog to his own vomit and the washed pig to his mud. Hes just returning the unclean spirits to an unclean animal. Which is a better house than a human that Jesus saw much value in. We humans/believers are menat to be vessels or temples of the holy spirit.