Serious question

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
38,784
11,028
113
#44
An even bigger picture....why did they desire to go into the pigs after being cast out by Jesus?.....and some interesting truths..

Demons can possess both MEN and Animals.......!

Also...on a different note....Why did Michael and Satan fight or dispute over the DEAD BODY of MOSES?

Many deep thoughts and truths when one digs deep.........

Another thought....SATAN entered JUDAS before Judas betrayed JESUS....!

The BEAST of Revelation when John pens Revelation.....

Was <--Past tense

Is Not <--Present tense (also alleviates Rome, not to mention the personal pronouns applied ->HE)

And Shall ASCEND OUT OF THE PIT -->Future tense


Demons, Satan etc. seem to need a physical body to manifest in this physical world.......

anyway....carry on....!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
38,784
11,028
113
#45
Many other sources say the same. But then again the devil is a liar and so maybe the term 'legion' was more poetic or an over exaggerated number. :)
Or....if a legion can be in one man, why is it a stretch for a legion to be in 2000 pigs.....??
 
L

LPT

Guest
#46
An even bigger picture....why did they desire to go into the pigs after being cast out by Jesus?.....and some interesting truths..

Demons can possess both MEN and Animals.......!

Also...on a different note....Why did Michael and Satan fight or dispute over the DEAD BODY of MOSES?

Many deep thoughts and truths when one digs deep.........

Another thought....SATAN entered JUDAS before Judas betrayed JESUS....!

The BEAST of Revelation when John pens Revelation.....

Was <--Past tense

Is Not <--Present tense (also alleviates Rome, not to mention the personal pronouns applied ->HE)

And Shall ASCEND OUT OF THE PIT -->Future tense


Demons, Satan etc. seem to need a physical body to manifest in this physical world.......

anyway....carry on....!!
I’m not so sure they can possess animals they did have to ask Jesus to be sent into the pigs.

Can you provide video or anything to support animal possession, indeed the donkey spoke but I don’t think that was possession.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#47
Or....if a legion can be in one man, why is it a stretch for a legion to be in 2000 pigs.....??
Actually That’s what scripture says they can be many in one..

Luke 8:30
And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
38,784
11,028
113
#48
I’m not so sure they can possess animals they did have to ask Jesus to be sent into the pigs.

Can you provide video or anything to support animal possession, indeed the donkey spoke but I don’t think that was possession.
Sure they asked for permission, but were allowed to possess the pigs which was the point....they assumed Jesus was there to torment them before the time which seems to indicate a future punishment meeted out by Christ.....my point was simple....they had possession of the man and then did indeed possess the pigs.....I have heard people tell tales of their animals doing strange, destructive things and their exact words have been....It seems as if they were possessed........

Not trying to prove one way or another, but in this particular case they possessed the pigs.....permission not withstanding....!
 
L

LPT

Guest
#49
Sure they asked for permission, but were allowed to possess the pigs which was the point....they assumed Jesus was there to torment them before the time which seems to indicate a future punishment meeted out by Christ.....my point was simple....they had possession of the man and then did indeed possess the pigs.....I have heard people tell tales of their animals doing strange, destructive things and their exact words have been....It seems as if they were possessed........

Not trying to prove one way or another, but in this particular case they possessed the pigs.....permission not withstanding....!
But the pigs didn’t allow it, they ran to the water to drown themselves, the demons had no control over the pigs they couldn’t stop the pigs from drowning or nothing, i think that is what they were blinded of, they thought the pigs would be less of a coarse of action than out of the region but they sure didn’t count on the pigs dumping them by the wayside.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
38,784
11,028
113
#50
But the pigs didn’t allow it, they ran to the water to drown themselves, the demons had no control over the pigs they couldn’t stop the pigs from drowning or nothing, i think that is what they were blinded of, they thought the pigs would be less of a coarse of action than out of the region but they sure didn’t count on the pigs dumping them by the wayside.
I always joked and said that pigs were smarter than humans and would atleast commit mass suicide then live with demon possession.....have also joked about bugs being smarter as well....at least they flock to the light hahha
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,321
583
113
#51
I always joked and said that pigs were smarter than humans and would atleast commit mass suicide then live with demon possession.....have also joked about bugs being smarter as well....at least they flock to the light hahha
Also known as the case of the Deviled Ham.....lol.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
22,706
4,729
113
#52
But the pigs didn’t allow it, they ran to the water to drown themselves, the demons had no control over the pigs they couldn’t stop the pigs from drowning or nothing, i think that is what they were blinded of, they thought the pigs would be less of a coarse of action than out of the region but they sure didn’t count on the pigs dumping them by the wayside.
per Mark this man was always cutting himself with stones while he was possessed by the same demons, harming himself. and later in Mark we have --

It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him
(Mark 9:22)

a boy who had been possessed since childhood, and the demon often tried to kill him, specifically by drowning. just like the pigs. so, i think it's not necessarily the pigs idea to go commit suicide.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#54
per Mark this man was always cutting himself with stones while he was possessed, harming himself. and later in Mark we have --

It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him
(Mark 9:22)

a boy who had been possessed since childhood, and the demon often tried to kill him by causing him to hurt himself, even by drowning. just like the pigs. so, i think it's not necessarily the pigs idea to go commit suicide.
But the pigs were successful at drowning, not so much with a human it seems I wonder why. lol
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
259
41
28
#55
At the gaderenes the demons called legion asked to not be sent out of the territory.
Did Jesus give mercy to legion by allowing them into the pigs.
I believe that they ended up out of the territory, but Jesus show mercy
The Lord did not have Mercy on the demons but rather on the victim for he was delivered. Rather Jesus was Merciless to the demon.

Reading Matthew and Mark, a statement was stated by the Legion, followed by a request.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, what have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Mark 5:10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

Know a demon cannot be destroyed/killed, their final destination will be with their master as stated in: Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (final Judgment)

For a demon to operate in the natural world…….he needs a possess a human body to fully function but when he is cast out from a person…………..
Matthew 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Matthew 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Matthew 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

He is seeking rest. A demon thrives on chaos, he is pure evil and without chaos he is lost. He will not rest until he has found a body. This is the torment the demon was speaking of before his time (final Judgment)
Notice he did not want to leave the country (lazy sod) and tried compensate by requesting the pigs body to which the Lord allowed.
A pig is an animal, legion could not find the rest he was seeking and destroyed the pigs. The pigs died but the demon cast out into the void again seeking rest.
This is the reason the Lord was merciless on him for we never hear of legion again, he still seeking rest.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#56
Maybe there was more happening than we see.
The demons asked to go into the pigs for a reason. The demon possessed man was a huge curse to the people and the area, and Jesus would have been greatly loved for freeing the people in that area from this curse. Demons are not dumb. They didn't want Jesus to be welcomed in that area, so they asked to attack the pigs. Jesus wasn't dumb either and knew that the people loved their unclean pigs. By allowing the pigs to perish Jesus allowed the people to exercise faith in Himself. Because their pigs perished they asked Jesus to leave the area. They failed at that time. But latter they accepted Him. Like God allowing Job to be tested.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
900
256
63
#57
I suspect that Jesus may have had this purpose in mind: when Jesus allowed the devils to go into the pigs, the people who saw the pigs go down the cliff, ran and told many people about it. Then the people from all over that area came to Jesus and saw the man out of whom the devils departed, with clothes on and in his right mind. The people were afraid and asked Jesus to leave. Many of those same people may have also believed on Jesus. The man who Jesus had cast out the devils from had asked to go with Jesus but Jesus told him to go home and tell all about what good things God had done for him.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#58
A good question is, how many men was there? Matthew has two, Mark has one
 
L

LPT

Guest
#60
parents i guess?



i am wondering the same thing - - could this have happened twice?
Well IMO that would be a stretch to say happened twice, two herds of pigs went down and drowned.

Possibly three men, one standing at the shore and two approaching.