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Well, I suppose that God has stopped talking sometime after the codification of the bible.
However, I seem to have read somewhere that the sheep of Jesus would hear His voice.
I really don't understand this fear that so many have, that they must reject every possibility of a voice other than their own, that any voice which is supernatural is evil and seeking to deceive.
God speaks to us in many ways, not just through scripture. When we say that whatever we hear must agree with scripture, we are placing our understanding above God's spoken word. Many things I thought I understood from scripture, only to find that when the Spirit explained the scripture that I did not understand at all, or wrong.
It is true that many people run around seeking a sign and a word, some supernatural event to as they think, increase their faith. Some just want the sensation that God cares about them, that He knows that they exist. These people are lonely and unstable in all their ways. This in no way invalidates the true ministry of prophecy, of words of knowledge, of miracles and of healing. God knows things we cannot know, even from reading scripture. But He reveals His secrets to His servants.
If we had prophets who knew how to walk in the Spirit, then those who seek a sign would be afraid and ashamed to come begging for a sign. They would know that the secrets of their hearts would be revealed to all.
However, I seem to have read somewhere that the sheep of Jesus would hear His voice.
I really don't understand this fear that so many have, that they must reject every possibility of a voice other than their own, that any voice which is supernatural is evil and seeking to deceive.
God speaks to us in many ways, not just through scripture. When we say that whatever we hear must agree with scripture, we are placing our understanding above God's spoken word. Many things I thought I understood from scripture, only to find that when the Spirit explained the scripture that I did not understand at all, or wrong.
It is true that many people run around seeking a sign and a word, some supernatural event to as they think, increase their faith. Some just want the sensation that God cares about them, that He knows that they exist. These people are lonely and unstable in all their ways. This in no way invalidates the true ministry of prophecy, of words of knowledge, of miracles and of healing. God knows things we cannot know, even from reading scripture. But He reveals His secrets to His servants.
If we had prophets who knew how to walk in the Spirit, then those who seek a sign would be afraid and ashamed to come begging for a sign. They would know that the secrets of their hearts would be revealed to all.
you know, this entire thing is just such a crock.
nobody needs you to peer into their hearts (you can't anyways, though you love to pretend God is doing it through you).
you're not a prophet, you don't walk in the Spirit, you're in the flesh.
you're deceived and deceiving.
everything about you is RANK HERESY.
nobody needs you to peer into their hearts (you can't anyways, though you love to pretend God is doing it through you).
you're not a prophet, you don't walk in the Spirit, you're in the flesh.
you're deceived and deceiving.
everything about you is RANK HERESY.
I am sorry that you feel this way about me.
I have not made myself your enemy, you have decided to hate me. But I do love you, and I am mortified that you must see others in this darkness which covers your heart.
God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things, even the deep things we have hidden in our hearts. Sometimes, He gives a little light to open the hardest hearts just a crack, so that He can get in and burst asunder the walls of hate and disbelief, and create from a fortress of stone a living heart of flesh. It is something that our God delights in doing. His angels all stare in awe whenever this happens.
And the name of Jesus is glorified beyond measure, every time a heart of stone is turned into a heart of love.
I have not made myself your enemy, you have decided to hate me. But I do love you, and I am mortified that you must see others in this darkness which covers your heart.
God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things, even the deep things we have hidden in our hearts. Sometimes, He gives a little light to open the hardest hearts just a crack, so that He can get in and burst asunder the walls of hate and disbelief, and create from a fortress of stone a living heart of flesh. It is something that our God delights in doing. His angels all stare in awe whenever this happens.
And the name of Jesus is glorified beyond measure, every time a heart of stone is turned into a heart of love.
even your speech is fake.
you try to sound like you understand and know Him so intimiately. you don't know Him AT ALL evidenced by the fact you're willing to risk your fate as false prophet.
like some greeeeeeeat man of god who has suffered and LITERALLY died and LITERALLY been crucified with Christ.
thats what your soteriology says isnt it emergent VW?
see, when you can't accept the simple Gospel of Grace through faith and just GOTTA be somebody important, your mind will do all kinds of things to accomodate you.
it'll twist god's Word, deny his words, elevate you beyond measure.
YOU'RE A FRAUD.
like tell you how you pass behind the veil, how Jesus speaks verbatim words (OF WRATH AND CONDEMNATION TO THOSE WHO REJECT FALSE PROHETS) through you....
how you're so humble and holy yet so willing to wear that hair shirt. poor VW. the job of a prohet is so hard.
in reality you're a middle class american male of a certain age charismatic evangelical who apparently doesn't work (if you do you dont spend a lot of time at it ot with your family cuz you're creepin on the net PRETENDING YOU ARE PROPHET WHEN THERE ARE NO MORE.
i don't hate you. i'm irritated beyond words by your PHONY PERSONA, and i feel sorry for you.
you're still not a prophet, FOR THERE ARE NO MORE.
too bad...so sad.
you try to sound like you understand and know Him so intimiately. you don't know Him AT ALL evidenced by the fact you're willing to risk your fate as false prophet.
like some greeeeeeeat man of god who has suffered and LITERALLY died and LITERALLY been crucified with Christ.
thats what your soteriology says isnt it emergent VW?
see, when you can't accept the simple Gospel of Grace through faith and just GOTTA be somebody important, your mind will do all kinds of things to accomodate you.
it'll twist god's Word, deny his words, elevate you beyond measure.
YOU'RE A FRAUD.
like tell you how you pass behind the veil, how Jesus speaks verbatim words (OF WRATH AND CONDEMNATION TO THOSE WHO REJECT FALSE PROHETS) through you....
how you're so humble and holy yet so willing to wear that hair shirt. poor VW. the job of a prohet is so hard.
in reality you're a middle class american male of a certain age charismatic evangelical who apparently doesn't work (if you do you dont spend a lot of time at it ot with your family cuz you're creepin on the net PRETENDING YOU ARE PROPHET WHEN THERE ARE NO MORE.
i don't hate you. i'm irritated beyond words by your PHONY PERSONA, and i feel sorry for you.
you're still not a prophet, FOR THERE ARE NO MORE.
too bad...so sad.
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The problem with your flawed answer is that we can not know it is God. Satan comes as an angel of light. how could we know it was not satan, trying to be God. unless we have some way to test what we are hearing.
Sorry. Satan has fooled people before acting like God. If you have no outside source confirming to you that the message you are hearing is from God. ignore it!
Sorry. Satan has fooled people before acting like God. If you have no outside source confirming to you that the message you are hearing is from God. ignore it!
1 John 4:2-3 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
A word is a message form God to the person. Could be about all kinds of things. Could be very private from God to you through the person. The person is just the vessel the message comes through. They don't create the message. There are messages that no it's not going to be confirmed by others God confirms. It's none of someones else's business at times. There are messages that yes they are confirmed.
You have to decide if who gave you the message is a good Godly person or not. By this time you should have discerning of spirits. If you do not you need to ask God for this.
You also need to know that well meaning Christians give words from their souls and not from God all the time. They don't realize they do this.
In the first place you should have a relationship with God that Spirit to spirit God told you was this message real or not. You instantly knew. It could very well be a right message but you don't want to believe it. You could be wanting to do things your own way.
At times people give messages they actually think are from God but it is from them. They are not trying to be mean or evil they are still acting as themselves and are trying to help you.
You always have to use common sense too.
Let me give you a example. This lady I knew. I could see she always worried about her grown adult kids. She didn't trust God. She always said how she trusted God and didn't worry about her kids. Well every bible study was the worry about her kids.
At prayer the Lord spoke and told me she worries about her kids. Well I knew this already. But when God spoke I knew he wanted me to confront her. I knew already that she didn't receive me cause she thinks she is more close to God than me. Well I can't help any of that ha ha. But the Lord wanted her to be delivered of this worry cause she stands in his way. I thought she's going to start laying into me all mad when I tell her. Self righteousness and pride are a mess. The only reason the Lord talked to me is cause I pray for her. I want everyone to go up higher.
So I went up and nicely told her the Lord says you worry about your kids. Boy the rage in her eyes. She wanted to kill me. She's on the worship team which they actually teach each other they are more close to God and they bring in the presence of God to the church. Like what do the rest of do lol.
So she got up on the altar and proclaimed to the church I don't worry about my kids. Well the next bible study was all of the worry about her kids. I kept praying for her. A few months later she started talking about how the Lord was showing her she worries about her kids and she needs to give them to God. This revelation from God. Yha right. God already used me to confront her cause he loves her. But her righteousness and pride still wouldn't say that I was used in the message from God to her. People are funny. It's fine as long as she got the message finally, she doesn't have to recognize me only God. But me and God still know ha ha.
Was the message to help her or to harm her. Her doubt all the time was slowing down what God wanted to do for her and her family.
I hope this helps you understand a little. It all sounds so crazy at times.
You have to decide if who gave you the message is a good Godly person or not. By this time you should have discerning of spirits. If you do not you need to ask God for this.
You also need to know that well meaning Christians give words from their souls and not from God all the time. They don't realize they do this.
In the first place you should have a relationship with God that Spirit to spirit God told you was this message real or not. You instantly knew. It could very well be a right message but you don't want to believe it. You could be wanting to do things your own way.
At times people give messages they actually think are from God but it is from them. They are not trying to be mean or evil they are still acting as themselves and are trying to help you.
You always have to use common sense too.
Let me give you a example. This lady I knew. I could see she always worried about her grown adult kids. She didn't trust God. She always said how she trusted God and didn't worry about her kids. Well every bible study was the worry about her kids.
At prayer the Lord spoke and told me she worries about her kids. Well I knew this already. But when God spoke I knew he wanted me to confront her. I knew already that she didn't receive me cause she thinks she is more close to God than me. Well I can't help any of that ha ha. But the Lord wanted her to be delivered of this worry cause she stands in his way. I thought she's going to start laying into me all mad when I tell her. Self righteousness and pride are a mess. The only reason the Lord talked to me is cause I pray for her. I want everyone to go up higher.
So I went up and nicely told her the Lord says you worry about your kids. Boy the rage in her eyes. She wanted to kill me. She's on the worship team which they actually teach each other they are more close to God and they bring in the presence of God to the church. Like what do the rest of do lol.
So she got up on the altar and proclaimed to the church I don't worry about my kids. Well the next bible study was all of the worry about her kids. I kept praying for her. A few months later she started talking about how the Lord was showing her she worries about her kids and she needs to give them to God. This revelation from God. Yha right. God already used me to confront her cause he loves her. But her righteousness and pride still wouldn't say that I was used in the message from God to her. People are funny. It's fine as long as she got the message finally, she doesn't have to recognize me only God. But me and God still know ha ha.
Was the message to help her or to harm her. Her doubt all the time was slowing down what God wanted to do for her and her family.
I hope this helps you understand a little. It all sounds so crazy at times.
VW, please go have a few cold beers that you seem to enjoy and be so fond of and some hot pizza and then come back with your belly full and see if that will help you come to your senses and begin to be objective about the grace and mercy that we been given. If you really read the NT, like you have asked me to do, you would find that the grace of God is paramount in the believer's life and you would also find out about the finished work and how Christ has paid for and put away our sin. We are not our sin nor do we desire sin, but if we sin, we have an advocate, Jesus Christ and not the Spirit.
You want the Spirit to be your advocate and he will not do that, but the Spirit will point you to the blood and to Christ when you sin. That is the good news and the truth that every believer has been given through Christ...ACCESS. We have ACCESS as a believer-priest through the blood of Christ. We have ACCESS to grace by faith wherein we stand continuously (Rom 5:2). We have ACCESS by one Spirit unto the Father (Eph 2:18). We have ACCESS to the manifold wisdom of God by the boldness of faith through Christ (Eph 3:12). We have ACCESS to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need (Heb 4:16).
We have God's presence everywhere we go and that is a promise from God, who will never leave us or forsake us (Eph 4:6, Heb 13:5). This is what the scriptures teach and it is objective truth that we can trust and the Holy Spirit will confirm that truth in us and not contradict it. That is walking in the Spirit, by faith in the grace of God. I like it, don't you? And I don't have to worry, be concerned or even think about sin, because there is no more conscience of sins (Heb 10:2). Does that mean that we are no aware when we sin, NO! But we know what to do about it instantly, and we never have to live in the effects of sin's unrighteousness. God takes great pleasure when we know how to deal with these things that could hinder us but do not because we trust Him and receive of His grace.
VW, give your life to the grace of God and let that grace set you free from all these strange ideas that you fellowship with in your heart through your own understanding and at times through another (s)pirit.
You want the Spirit to be your advocate and he will not do that, but the Spirit will point you to the blood and to Christ when you sin. That is the good news and the truth that every believer has been given through Christ...ACCESS. We have ACCESS as a believer-priest through the blood of Christ. We have ACCESS to grace by faith wherein we stand continuously (Rom 5:2). We have ACCESS by one Spirit unto the Father (Eph 2:18). We have ACCESS to the manifold wisdom of God by the boldness of faith through Christ (Eph 3:12). We have ACCESS to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need (Heb 4:16).
We have God's presence everywhere we go and that is a promise from God, who will never leave us or forsake us (Eph 4:6, Heb 13:5). This is what the scriptures teach and it is objective truth that we can trust and the Holy Spirit will confirm that truth in us and not contradict it. That is walking in the Spirit, by faith in the grace of God. I like it, don't you? And I don't have to worry, be concerned or even think about sin, because there is no more conscience of sins (Heb 10:2). Does that mean that we are no aware when we sin, NO! But we know what to do about it instantly, and we never have to live in the effects of sin's unrighteousness. God takes great pleasure when we know how to deal with these things that could hinder us but do not because we trust Him and receive of His grace.
VW, give your life to the grace of God and let that grace set you free from all these strange ideas that you fellowship with in your heart through your own understanding and at times through another (s)pirit.
oh my....you know about the timing and the eschaton do you? who'd you rip it off of?
diligent students?
or is your gnostic secret your ply and trade?
GRACE, GRACE, ITS ALL GRACE.
unless you plan to boast VW.
Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone
Solus Christus - Christ Alone
Sola Gratia - Grace Alone
Sola Fide - Faith Alone
Soli Deo Gloria - The Glory of God Alone
Unwarranted confidence in human ability is a product of fallen human nature ... God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. We confess that human beings are born spiritually dead and are incapable even of cooperating with regenerating grace. We reaffirm that in salvation we are rescued from God's wrath by his grace alone. It is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage to sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life. We deny that salvation is in any sense a human work. Human methods, techniques or strategies by themselves cannot accomplish this transformation. Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature. - Cambridge Declaration
diligent students?
or is your gnostic secret your ply and trade?
GRACE, GRACE, ITS ALL GRACE.
unless you plan to boast VW.
Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone
Solus Christus - Christ Alone
Sola Gratia - Grace Alone
Sola Fide - Faith Alone
Soli Deo Gloria - The Glory of God Alone
Unwarranted confidence in human ability is a product of fallen human nature ... God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. We confess that human beings are born spiritually dead and are incapable even of cooperating with regenerating grace. We reaffirm that in salvation we are rescued from God's wrath by his grace alone. It is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage to sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life. We deny that salvation is in any sense a human work. Human methods, techniques or strategies by themselves cannot accomplish this transformation. Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature. - Cambridge Declaration
this is nothing more than the work of a busybody who pretends God tells them everybody's intimate secrets.
i'd be ticked off too.
but of course i've got a "demon of religious spirit" and am 'Jezebel".
They Will Not Endure Sound Doctrine
Mike Gendron
Have you noticed the recent trend in our post-modern church? Doctrine is out and tolerance is in. We are being told that for the sake of unity, doctrine should not be tested or contested. We are not supposed to declare any absolutes but to tolerate every wind of doctrine. Doctrinal and moral issues, which were once seen as black and white, are now being painted gray. The state of the church is in a state of confusion.
Paul forewarned of this when he wrote: “The time will come when they [the people in the church] will not endure [tolerate] sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths” (2 Timothy 4:3-4). When “Christians” turn to popular teachers who tickle their ears with messages on selfesteem and self-improvement, they are also turning away from God’s Word. Without a steady diet of Scripture, they will not hear sound doctrine and therefore be unable to discern truth from error. Ultimately, they will not know if they are following Jesus Christ or His adversaries.
Without discernment, the 21st century church is headed for serious trouble because the enemies of the Gospel are more determined than we are. What the Body of Christ needs now are soldiers of the Lord who are committed to battle for truth! We all need to do our part to reverse the pending death of discernment in the church.
Spiritual Immaturity
When sound doctrine is replaced with shallow teaching made up of humorous stories and shallow opinions, you will find biblical illiteracy in the pew. New babes in Christ have difficulty growing in the grace and knowledge of their Savior when pastors do not preach the whole counsel of God. When the Word of God is not being faithfully taught, people will not hear truth. And if they don’t hear truth, they will be unable to discern God’s way from man’s way, truth from error and right from wrong. We must all become more discerning because no man is infallible and no preacher is beyond the possibility of doctrinal error. We must always be ready to reject what is false and hold fast to what is true. As disciples of Jesus we must be known for what we’re for as well as what we’re against.
In closing we must recognize that all truth sets itself against error. Sound doctrine divides and confronts, it judges and separates, it reproves and rebukes and it exposes and refutes error. It leads us from the broad way to the narrow way (Matthew 7:13-14). It commands us to submit to God and resist the devil (James 4:7). It exhorts us to discern between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error (1 John 4:6). It demands that we turn away from evil and do good (1 Peter 3:11). It tells us that our ways are not God’s ways, nor are our thoughts His thoughts (Isaiah 55:8). It warns us against exchanging the truth of God for a lie (Romans 1:25). It promises the righteous will be blessed and the wicked will perish.
True Christians cannot continue to tolerate or ignore Satan’s wicked schemes to weaken and pollute the church. We must stand firmly on sound doctrine, heed biblical warnings and live passionately for the truth so that Jesus Christ will be glorified and His church will grow in holiness and strength.
They Will Not Endure Sound Doctrine | Midnight Call Ministries
i'd be ticked off too.
but of course i've got a "demon of religious spirit" and am 'Jezebel".
They Will Not Endure Sound Doctrine
Mike Gendron
Have you noticed the recent trend in our post-modern church? Doctrine is out and tolerance is in. We are being told that for the sake of unity, doctrine should not be tested or contested. We are not supposed to declare any absolutes but to tolerate every wind of doctrine. Doctrinal and moral issues, which were once seen as black and white, are now being painted gray. The state of the church is in a state of confusion.
Paul forewarned of this when he wrote: “The time will come when they [the people in the church] will not endure [tolerate] sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths” (2 Timothy 4:3-4). When “Christians” turn to popular teachers who tickle their ears with messages on selfesteem and self-improvement, they are also turning away from God’s Word. Without a steady diet of Scripture, they will not hear sound doctrine and therefore be unable to discern truth from error. Ultimately, they will not know if they are following Jesus Christ or His adversaries.
Without discernment, the 21st century church is headed for serious trouble because the enemies of the Gospel are more determined than we are. What the Body of Christ needs now are soldiers of the Lord who are committed to battle for truth! We all need to do our part to reverse the pending death of discernment in the church.
Spiritual Immaturity
When sound doctrine is replaced with shallow teaching made up of humorous stories and shallow opinions, you will find biblical illiteracy in the pew. New babes in Christ have difficulty growing in the grace and knowledge of their Savior when pastors do not preach the whole counsel of God. When the Word of God is not being faithfully taught, people will not hear truth. And if they don’t hear truth, they will be unable to discern God’s way from man’s way, truth from error and right from wrong. We must all become more discerning because no man is infallible and no preacher is beyond the possibility of doctrinal error. We must always be ready to reject what is false and hold fast to what is true. As disciples of Jesus we must be known for what we’re for as well as what we’re against.
In closing we must recognize that all truth sets itself against error. Sound doctrine divides and confronts, it judges and separates, it reproves and rebukes and it exposes and refutes error. It leads us from the broad way to the narrow way (Matthew 7:13-14). It commands us to submit to God and resist the devil (James 4:7). It exhorts us to discern between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error (1 John 4:6). It demands that we turn away from evil and do good (1 Peter 3:11). It tells us that our ways are not God’s ways, nor are our thoughts His thoughts (Isaiah 55:8). It warns us against exchanging the truth of God for a lie (Romans 1:25). It promises the righteous will be blessed and the wicked will perish.
True Christians cannot continue to tolerate or ignore Satan’s wicked schemes to weaken and pollute the church. We must stand firmly on sound doctrine, heed biblical warnings and live passionately for the truth so that Jesus Christ will be glorified and His church will grow in holiness and strength.
They Will Not Endure Sound Doctrine | Midnight Call Ministries
Charismatic Chaos: "Does God still give revelation today?"
....If someone were to write an anthem for the Charismatic movement it would have to be titled, "God told me! God told me!" you hear that over and over again. Strange prophecies abound in the Charismatic movement; in fact, it is well nigh impossible to turn on a Charismatic television station or a radio station without being exposed, almost on a daily basis to some new "Words from the Lord." I was watching one today and sure enough, "The Lord said, the Lord said, the Lord said," was repeated again and again.
This week I listened to a very fascinating tape by a man by the name of James Ryle. In his tape he tells about the fact that God gives him revelation through dreams, and that God revealed to him in this incredible dream, which I listened to him explain,
"Pictures of guitars, blue guitars, iridescent blue guitars." And then in the dream God showed him amplifiers, and then God told him that, "The guitars and the amplifiers belong to the Beatles." And God told him that, "The Church will win the world to salvation when it goes into the world and sings anointed music like the Beatles." The tape is filled with statements, "The Lord said, the Lord said, the Lord said, the Lord said." And here are some quotes, "The Lord said, 'I called those four lads from Liverpool to myself. There was a call from God on their lives. They were gifted by my hand and it was I who anointed them (speaking of the Beatles). The purpose was to usher in the Charismatic Renewal with musical revival around the world.'"
Then the Lord said, "The four lads from Liverpool went AWOL and did not serve in my army. They served their own purposes and gave the gift to the other side." And then the Lord said, "I lifted the anointing and for twenty years I've held it in my hand and I am about to release it again." And then the Lord said, "It doesn't belong to the world, it belongs to the Church." And then the Lord said, "I will release an anointing in music that will take the world by storm like the Beatles when they first came. New, anointed music that will capture men's hearts." And then the Lord said, "The same kind of reaction that the Beatles extracted will come, only this time the girls will not scream, Ringo, John, George, or Paul, they will scream, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus."
Did the Lord say that? Did the Lord say any of that? He says he did. Surely the most famous of all the Lord's speaking to Charismatics is the famous, "Oral Roberts Death Threat Prophecy" a preposterous and fabricated supposed "Word from the Lord." Roberts told his nationwide audience in 1987 that God had threatened to call him home if he couldn't raise 8 million dollars by his creditor's deadline. Whether or how that threat might have been carried out the world will never know because Roberts received a last minute reprieve in the form of a large check from a Florida dog track owner, as you remember. Two years later when Roberts was forced to close his massive, multi-million dollar City of Faith Medical Center anyway, in spite of the 8 million dollars, he asked God, "Why?" And Oral Roberts said God spoke to him and God said,
"I had you build the City of Faith large enough to capture the imagination of the entire world, about the merging of My healing streams of Prayer and Medicine. I did not want this revelation localized in Tulsa, however, and the time has come when I want this concept of merging My healing streams to be known to all people and to go into all future generations." So said God. Roberts said, "It is clearly in my spirit, as I have ever heard Him, the Lord gave me an impression, 'You and your partners have merged prayer and medicine for the entire world, for the Church World and for all generations.' And then He said, 'It is done.' And then I asked, 'Is that why after eight years you are having us close the hospital and after eleven years the medical school?' And God said, 'Yes, the mission has been accomplished in the same way that after three years of public ministry, my Son said on the cross, Father, it is finished!'"
Putting yourself in company with Jesus Christ is a bold move. That kind of arrogance almost makes us catch our breath. I recently had the opportunity to stand on the dandelion patch that now surrounds the City of Faith Medical Center in Tulsa. A sixty floor building next to a thirty floor building. An absolutely unbelievable edifice rising out of the midst of nothing, in the outskirts of this city. A monument to a man's folly and certainly no testimony to the character and the quality and the power of God, for it stands empty and unfinished, wasted.
The arrogance that causes people to think that God talks to them and puts themselves on a plane with even Jesus Christ and His work is amazing. But Oral Roberts is not the only Charismatic who thinks he's receiving private revelation from God. Most Charismatics, at one time or another, feel that God speaks to them in some specific way. Either through an audible voice, some kind of internal impression, a dream (and that's kind of a new one), a vision, or a prophesy......
Charismatic Chaos: \"Does God still give revelation today?\"
....If someone were to write an anthem for the Charismatic movement it would have to be titled, "God told me! God told me!" you hear that over and over again. Strange prophecies abound in the Charismatic movement; in fact, it is well nigh impossible to turn on a Charismatic television station or a radio station without being exposed, almost on a daily basis to some new "Words from the Lord." I was watching one today and sure enough, "The Lord said, the Lord said, the Lord said," was repeated again and again.
This week I listened to a very fascinating tape by a man by the name of James Ryle. In his tape he tells about the fact that God gives him revelation through dreams, and that God revealed to him in this incredible dream, which I listened to him explain,
"Pictures of guitars, blue guitars, iridescent blue guitars." And then in the dream God showed him amplifiers, and then God told him that, "The guitars and the amplifiers belong to the Beatles." And God told him that, "The Church will win the world to salvation when it goes into the world and sings anointed music like the Beatles." The tape is filled with statements, "The Lord said, the Lord said, the Lord said, the Lord said." And here are some quotes, "The Lord said, 'I called those four lads from Liverpool to myself. There was a call from God on their lives. They were gifted by my hand and it was I who anointed them (speaking of the Beatles). The purpose was to usher in the Charismatic Renewal with musical revival around the world.'"
Then the Lord said, "The four lads from Liverpool went AWOL and did not serve in my army. They served their own purposes and gave the gift to the other side." And then the Lord said, "I lifted the anointing and for twenty years I've held it in my hand and I am about to release it again." And then the Lord said, "It doesn't belong to the world, it belongs to the Church." And then the Lord said, "I will release an anointing in music that will take the world by storm like the Beatles when they first came. New, anointed music that will capture men's hearts." And then the Lord said, "The same kind of reaction that the Beatles extracted will come, only this time the girls will not scream, Ringo, John, George, or Paul, they will scream, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus."
Did the Lord say that? Did the Lord say any of that? He says he did. Surely the most famous of all the Lord's speaking to Charismatics is the famous, "Oral Roberts Death Threat Prophecy" a preposterous and fabricated supposed "Word from the Lord." Roberts told his nationwide audience in 1987 that God had threatened to call him home if he couldn't raise 8 million dollars by his creditor's deadline. Whether or how that threat might have been carried out the world will never know because Roberts received a last minute reprieve in the form of a large check from a Florida dog track owner, as you remember. Two years later when Roberts was forced to close his massive, multi-million dollar City of Faith Medical Center anyway, in spite of the 8 million dollars, he asked God, "Why?" And Oral Roberts said God spoke to him and God said,
"I had you build the City of Faith large enough to capture the imagination of the entire world, about the merging of My healing streams of Prayer and Medicine. I did not want this revelation localized in Tulsa, however, and the time has come when I want this concept of merging My healing streams to be known to all people and to go into all future generations." So said God. Roberts said, "It is clearly in my spirit, as I have ever heard Him, the Lord gave me an impression, 'You and your partners have merged prayer and medicine for the entire world, for the Church World and for all generations.' And then He said, 'It is done.' And then I asked, 'Is that why after eight years you are having us close the hospital and after eleven years the medical school?' And God said, 'Yes, the mission has been accomplished in the same way that after three years of public ministry, my Son said on the cross, Father, it is finished!'"
Putting yourself in company with Jesus Christ is a bold move. That kind of arrogance almost makes us catch our breath. I recently had the opportunity to stand on the dandelion patch that now surrounds the City of Faith Medical Center in Tulsa. A sixty floor building next to a thirty floor building. An absolutely unbelievable edifice rising out of the midst of nothing, in the outskirts of this city. A monument to a man's folly and certainly no testimony to the character and the quality and the power of God, for it stands empty and unfinished, wasted.
The arrogance that causes people to think that God talks to them and puts themselves on a plane with even Jesus Christ and His work is amazing. But Oral Roberts is not the only Charismatic who thinks he's receiving private revelation from God. Most Charismatics, at one time or another, feel that God speaks to them in some specific way. Either through an audible voice, some kind of internal impression, a dream (and that's kind of a new one), a vision, or a prophesy......
Charismatic Chaos: \"Does God still give revelation today?\"