Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk
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Interesting proposition.
For this to be true immediately believers come to faith their hearts would automatically be
purified. To a degree this does take place, but it appears only be to a degree.
Some have expressed the view this is impossible until Christ returns.
Paul seems to imply this is a combined work by the Holy Spirit and by ourselves.
But Amen for agreeing this is an essential part of walking with the Lord.
For this to be true immediately believers come to faith their hearts would automatically be
purified. To a degree this does take place, but it appears only be to a degree.
Some have expressed the view this is impossible until Christ returns.
Paul seems to imply this is a combined work by the Holy Spirit and by ourselves.
But Amen for agreeing this is an essential part of walking with the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me. Philippians 2:9-18
[SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me. Philippians 2:9-18
Obviously self-righteousness in terms of justification is false.
But actually walking in obedience to Christ and the Holy Spirit is life. This is building on the
foundation of Christ, on the rock.
Jesus obviously is saying building on the sand is not putting the instructions in the sermon on
the mount into effect.
What fascinates me is this hatred of anything related to doing good for any reason. Jesus and
the Father never condemned people for doing good or seeking righteousness. It is this desire
linked with the failure to find it without the Lord drives many to seek His face and find empowerment.
And the whole basis of righteousness is dependency on God, and love working in us. What Jesus
criticised the pharisees for was their self indulgence and greed, their lack of love and care for others.
They were very secure and pleased with everything they had, and felt they needed nothing more.
They were happy with the show of righteousness, not interested in its reality.
Now it is easy to fall into this problem, at any point in ones life. The sermon addresses the failure
to be the same on the inside, in your heart as the outside, and walk as a true loving follower of
Christ.
Now so many demonstrate the failure to appreciate the heart needs to be the same as who you
show yourself to be, and following Christ in love and purity is essential, which also many fail to
appreciate. There is no replacement to finding reality inside, in the quiet place with the Lord, and
seeing this grow into all areas of ones life, this is the Kingdom of Heaven.
But actually walking in obedience to Christ and the Holy Spirit is life. This is building on the
foundation of Christ, on the rock.
Jesus obviously is saying building on the sand is not putting the instructions in the sermon on
the mount into effect.
What fascinates me is this hatred of anything related to doing good for any reason. Jesus and
the Father never condemned people for doing good or seeking righteousness. It is this desire
linked with the failure to find it without the Lord drives many to seek His face and find empowerment.
And the whole basis of righteousness is dependency on God, and love working in us. What Jesus
criticised the pharisees for was their self indulgence and greed, their lack of love and care for others.
They were very secure and pleased with everything they had, and felt they needed nothing more.
They were happy with the show of righteousness, not interested in its reality.
Now it is easy to fall into this problem, at any point in ones life. The sermon addresses the failure
to be the same on the inside, in your heart as the outside, and walk as a true loving follower of
Christ.
Now so many demonstrate the failure to appreciate the heart needs to be the same as who you
show yourself to be, and following Christ in love and purity is essential, which also many fail to
appreciate. There is no replacement to finding reality inside, in the quiet place with the Lord, and
seeing this grow into all areas of ones life, this is the Kingdom of Heaven.
A
I liked most of you post, why did you have to include this statement?
"
What fascinates me is this hatred of anything related to doing good for any reason. "
What fascinates me is you always find evil in others.
Who here is against doing good works?
Many are against doing good works to earn salvation, even you are, but I have yet to see a poster who has a hatred for good works as you accuse folks of.
"
What fascinates me is this hatred of anything related to doing good for any reason. "
What fascinates me is you always find evil in others.
Who here is against doing good works?
Many are against doing good works to earn salvation, even you are, but I have yet to see a poster who has a hatred for good works as you accuse folks of.
Amen! Good works, put it in their proper place, subsequent to saving faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10). Good works are what believers are saved FOR and believers have been saved through faith, not works. This does not remove good works from the Christian life, it just puts good works in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and justification.
Titus 3:8 - This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
*So there is absolutely nothing wrong with good works, as long as we understand that we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.
Titus 3:8 - This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
*So there is absolutely nothing wrong with good works, as long as we understand that we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.
I have noticed some hold the view that good works done by non-believers are evil.
The preaching goes, all sin dealt with through Christ. The only judgement issue is good works
done in faith or in unbelief. If in unbelief they are evil, if in faith they are good.
After a discussion about the good samaritan, could a non-believer be good and do good things.
The belief then expressed was no, only believers could do good things.
I am therefore testing whether people still hold to this point of view, which I have always found
worrying. And I am not trying to find evil in others, I am encouraging a more gracious and loving
attitude to good deeds done by all.
The preaching goes, all sin dealt with through Christ. The only judgement issue is good works
done in faith or in unbelief. If in unbelief they are evil, if in faith they are good.
After a discussion about the good samaritan, could a non-believer be good and do good things.
The belief then expressed was no, only believers could do good things.
I am therefore testing whether people still hold to this point of view, which I have always found
worrying. And I am not trying to find evil in others, I am encouraging a more gracious and loving
attitude to good deeds done by all.
I am against believing good deeds earn salvation, but good deeds do earn merit and have
real value whoever does them.
The problem with all positions, actions are visible, the motivations and reasons behind them
are hidden. People then project their own judgements onto the real reasons why things occur
which are often wrong, and the wrong conclusions drawn.
So a whole article was written about christians doing work in the church only for merit and not
out of love, as if this was true for all. It is like the enemy sacastically mocking and pocking fun
at people, and when the opportunity comes, always projecting the worst onto people.
So a warm welcome at the door of a church, is a self righteous condemnation from a legalist
putting their ideas on the poor congregants who are the victims. This has never been my experience
at my fellowship so I cannot concur with such ideas, when I know the value of personal contact
and encouragement and how important this is in every congregation.
real value whoever does them.
The problem with all positions, actions are visible, the motivations and reasons behind them
are hidden. People then project their own judgements onto the real reasons why things occur
which are often wrong, and the wrong conclusions drawn.
So a whole article was written about christians doing work in the church only for merit and not
out of love, as if this was true for all. It is like the enemy sacastically mocking and pocking fun
at people, and when the opportunity comes, always projecting the worst onto people.
So a warm welcome at the door of a church, is a self righteous condemnation from a legalist
putting their ideas on the poor congregants who are the victims. This has never been my experience
at my fellowship so I cannot concur with such ideas, when I know the value of personal contact
and encouragement and how important this is in every congregation.
Soon comes the Son of Man in the clouds with great power and glory, may the Most High God be blessed forever.
Matthew 6:1-9
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Matthew 6:1-9
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Any non-believer can do good works and these good works do benefit the person receiving them but these good works does never make one righteous.
Every religion of the world promotes doing "good things" and they believe that this brings them some sort of merit with God.
Doing good deeds does not ever make one righteous or makes one "good" in God's terms whether we are a believer or unbeliever in Christ.
We need to define good deeds in God's definition - not in our own humanistic ways.
This is why God says - There is none that does good - there is none righteous.
Romans 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Romans 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Every religion of the world promotes doing "good things" and they believe that this brings them some sort of merit with God.
Doing good deeds does not ever make one righteous or makes one "good" in God's terms whether we are a believer or unbeliever in Christ.
We need to define good deeds in God's definition - not in our own humanistic ways.
This is why God says - There is none that does good - there is none righteous.
Romans 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Romans 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
A
I agree. Satan and his minions will mock and chase peoe away from church and fellowship and erect false walls between God's children because he knows we are stronger when we fellowship together.
That is why Satan prefers to isolate people and create paranoid lies to keep them from receiving the love and fellowship from other believers they need to thrive.
That is why Satan prefers to isolate people and create paranoid lies to keep them from receiving the love and fellowship from other believers they need to thrive.
A
I see what you mean.
I believe many people don't understand or haven't studies these verses:
Romans 2:14-15 ►
New International Version
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
*****
God judges our inner motives not just our outward actions.
Did we help out of love or selfish gain? To be recognised and praised or because it was the right thing to do.
A good work is good if done with the right reasons no matter what your religion.
Good works don't save, but God still acknowledge a humble loving heart.
It's that type of heart that the gospel seed is planted, takes root and produces much fruit.
We don't know what stage of salvation the people we encounter are.
I believe good works should be encouraged by all, especially if the motive is love and compassion.
I believe many people don't understand or haven't studies these verses:
Romans 2:14-15 ►
New International Version
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
*****
God judges our inner motives not just our outward actions.
Did we help out of love or selfish gain? To be recognised and praised or because it was the right thing to do.
A good work is good if done with the right reasons no matter what your religion.
Good works don't save, but God still acknowledge a humble loving heart.
It's that type of heart that the gospel seed is planted, takes root and produces much fruit.
We don't know what stage of salvation the people we encounter are.
I believe good works should be encouraged by all, especially if the motive is love and compassion.