Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

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Apr 4, 2017
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I believe and so do many others that we need to look at all scripture through the finished work of Christ and in the context it was given in or that "text will con us" and the wilfull sinning Hebrews was taking about from Chapter 3 on up to Heb. 10:26 is the sin of unbelief. I realize that this conflicts with some of our church teachings that we were taught.

Would you agree that all works of the flesh are "wilfull" acts?. Let's take "outbursts of anger" as an example. If a person has outbursts of anger for the last 2 years since he was born again and he has an episode today and then dies right afterward - does this Christian go to hell now because he wilfully sinned and there remains no more sacrifice for sins as Heb. 10:26 says?
I see where you are coming from here. The tie breaker here is entire sanctification is it not?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Yes.....refuse to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus and there is no more sacrifice for sins as Christ's work alone on the cross and resurrection is God's way of grace through faith in what Christ has done for salvation. There is no other name under heaven that we may be saved.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would convict/expose/reveal the sin of unbelief on Christ. John 16:8-9

Commentaries...I have posted this numerous times in the past.

Commentaries.

I personally love to read from commentaries and have about 1/2 dozen or so that I regularly view on some subject. There is an inherent problem with going by commentaries to determine truth - they can be giving out what their denomination has taught them in the past and so we "could be" in another church tradition type of situation be perpetuated.

Commentaries are basically what the author himself thinks about a passage or certain doctrine which is absolutely fine. I find that I get a part from one and a part from a different commentary and the Spirit of God uses them all in some aspect to reveal what He is speaking to me about.

The other one is Greek/Hebrew dictionaries. I find that they too can "sometimes add" their comments to what the actual meaning of the Greek words are which may or may not be entirely true. They "add" their "application" of the meaning of the words - which is fine. But I believe we need to be aware of such things too.

I absolutely love to read the meanings of words in the Greek/Hebrew dictionaries and glean many things that have helped me to grow in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In my opinion - Without the revelation of the Holy Spirit revealing the things of God to us - we can easily create our own religion that displaces the work of Christ in our lives and thus nullify the grace of God that is available for us for life and living.

We are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ and His finished work in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Christ in her womb.

 
Aug 15, 2009
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To keep the malice and slander down to a minimum again I will post what I have said over 50x times on CC. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of grace. Heb. 10:29

I have also said dozens of times that we participate in this with the Holy Spirit for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13

Malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is no different then those that are living a homosexual lifestyle. They are all in the same lists as works of the flesh.
I believe that all those really born of God in Christ will have some sort of change happen to them. The grace of God will be the thing that changes us - not us by our own will-power or self-effort of the flesh. That is what I am really saying.
Were you talking out of both sides of your mouth?!?
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is no different then those that are living a homosexual lifestyle. They are all in the same lists as works of the flesh.
Speaking of malice & slander.....
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part. This just drives them nuts and I understand why. It is scandalous and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions.
I guess you're no different than the homosexual, as you have judged.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I see where you are coming from here. The tie breaker here is entire sanctification is it not?
Oh...I firmly believe that if we live by the works of the flesh that all of them bring destruction to us in this life in some form or other. Whether we are living a homosexual lifestyle or the malice and slandering of others in the body of Christ - they are all devoid of the life of Christ.

The only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is to walk by the spirit. We don't stop doing the lusts of the flesh and now we are walking by the spirit. That's backwards.

I firmly believe in both being 100% sanctified now in our inner man that is the new creation in Christ and in having our minds renewed to walk by the spirit.

We are holy ( Christ is our sanctification 1 Cor. 1:30 ) and we have been sanctified by our belief in Christ and the fruit of this holiness will bring out the fruits of the spirit.

We are like the invisible man who could only be seen when he put clothes on. We too can be seen for who we are in Christ when we "put on Christ" ( as Paul says - it's interesting that the Greek word for "put on" is putting on clothes ) - then people can see Christ manifested as His good works flow in and through us and they bring glory to God.

We are the righteousness of God in Christ and as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Spirit of Grace - the Holy Spirit. We "awake to righteousness and sin not".

As we have received Christ the Lord - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. We received Him by grace through faith and the rest of our Christian life is the exact same way.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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After the resurrection and the Jew's rejection of their King, God places the responsibility of reaching the Gentile world to the Apostle Paul. Now, there is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ. We are all one. In the sermon on the mount, the Lord was teaching specifically to Jews. He commanded His disciples to stay away from the Gentiles and Samaritans but rather go to the lost sheep of Israel. Why would He command this if Jews and Gentiles are the same?
Romans 1
15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome. 16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”…
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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I just ordered this. Other books I highly recommend on the Sermon on the Mount are:

The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer

The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard
Good, hope you enjoy it. I'll look into the one's you've recommended, and I do posses Bonhoeffer's work but haven't gotten to it yet. :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Romans 1
15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome. 16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”…
Actually...

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Note, this is not the gospel of the kingdom. And by the way, Paul was commanded to go to the Jew, Gentile and kings. Why were the disciples told not to go to the Gentiles? Boy, if we lived at the time period we would have been left out.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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Actually...

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Note, this is not the gospel of the kingdom. And by the way, Paul was commanded to go to the Jew, Gentile and kings. Why were the disciples told not to go to the Gentiles? Boy, if we lived at the time period we would have been left out.

Hi John,

You have just added onto scripture. You are quoting a verse with an addition - of Christ.

The gospel of Christ IS the gospel of the kingdom. It's used a few times throughout the gospels.

Matthew 4:23
Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Hi TH: Grace in the NT is referring to the gracious acts of God because of His love for mankind...truth and faith are given to us by the grace of God. There is no grace alone, God's grace is an act of love that gives to us truth and faith and love and everything else we have been given by God...so we are saved by grace because God's grace is what is giving us the other things.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I believe and so do many others that we need to look at all scripture through the finished work of Christ and in the context it was given in or that "text will con us" and the wilfull sinning Hebrews was taking about from Chapter 3 on up to Heb. 10:26 is the sin of unbelief. I realize that this conflicts with some of our church teachings that we were taught.

Would you agree that all works of the flesh are "wilfull" acts?. Let's take "outbursts of anger" as an example. If a person has outbursts of anger for the last 2 years since he was born again and he has an episode today and then dies right afterward - does this Christian go to hell now because he wilfully sinned and there remains no more sacrifice for sins as Heb. 10:26 says?
This kind of logic says when Jesus says if you call your brother a fool, you will
be liable to loose your salvation, he was just meaning if you were a jew saying
this to another jew, so it does not apply to believers.

Now you could say when he meant brother he meant only your physical brother,
but you can do what you like to your sister or anyone else.

So the point is always reasonableness and what is actual righteousness.
Now the whole of the old covenant is full, literally full of what righteousness
is, how to be pure, holy, right with God, in His will and blessing. And nothing
Jesus said or did takes away from this. Rather the opposite, he empowers it,
saying you should live it all, the whole moral law, because you now have communion
with God through the Holy Spirit so no excuses.

I honestly used to think I did have an excuse, that I could not dare call you brother
and sisters or even really know each other, but I was wrong. Jesus's heart is for us
and in us, and this makes us family, real family with real bonds. So the things that
are said and the condemnation about not knowing love or truth or simple repentance
of evil is appalling. These are basic life realities. They even trascend faith.

The sermon on the mount is equally simple isolated principles, one after the other.
Their context is the word of God. The cross merely has made this real to our hearts,
empowered, healed and made us new creations.

One phrase hit me between the eyes.
Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

Wow. Actually see God from within. So we need to be pure, without bias, cleansed
quiet, patient, waiting. I wonder how many have ever felt this place and seen its
beauty and simplicity. No being bound, or bitter, no anger or resentment, no revenge
or hatred, no desire to be other than accepting where we are.

And in Christ to have real insight and wisdom we need to be this pure.
It is why I have sever doubts of people telling so much about others while confessing
they sin and out of control of so much of their life. This is not purity or the place one
can see clearly. So how can you judge if the obvious blinds your sight.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The pure in heart are those that have received Christ and now have a new heart. Jesus in the Sermon on the mount as a description of the kingdom of God in operation was telling us that we can now see God accurately with our new heart because of His work and His righteousness which He gives to us.

Man's heart was corrupted with the mystery of iniquity that entered into man-kind through Adam's transgression and it is passed on through the blood which is one of the reasons why Jesus had to be born from the Holy Spirit to by-pass the blood of man contaminating Him.

In the OT man's heart was desperately wicked because people were still "in Adam". The heart is the old man that was in Adam but now that Christ has came - we believers have a new heart. We have a new man of the heart now in Christ.

Get this wrong and we create a doctrine of a "new evolution" instead of a new creation in Christ. We create an works-based humanistic mindset that actually denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In the next post I will show that believers in Christ have a new heart now. I believe the understanding of this is vital to growing up in the Lord. We need to get our "identity" correct.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Hi John,

You have just added onto scripture. You are quoting a verse with an addition - of Christ.

The gospel of Christ IS the gospel of the kingdom. It's used a few times throughout the gospels.

Matthew 4:23
Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
NAILED!!!:)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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All born-again Christians are now pure in heart. It's the same reason why all water is wet. It's the very nature of it.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart which is pure because it is in Christ!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him.

In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically - looking into this New Covenant and sais - "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it"( Romans 7:23 )and wrongly calling it our heart.

We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you
became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power
through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us
the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth
the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.


Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God,
who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them,
cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.


1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction i
s love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace,
with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that and there is the renewing of the mind...but all that is a different subject.
 
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Dec 2, 2016
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Hi Grace: I follow some of the same practices that you do and have found that if you have a human involved then you can have bias. I try to really look at the context more then anything else. Just a word about being led by the Holy Spirit, I believe that God will allow us to believe something false if we want to. I remember a well known bible teacher who was praying that God would led them to only be in the truth. Shortly after that they were teaching a false doctrine and seven different people called in to the show and pointed out by scripture that what they were teaching was wrong. They blew all seven off with the words, we don't believe that way here. My point, God will allow us to believe something false if we really want to believe it.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I believe the understanding of this is vital to growing up in the Lord. We need to get our "identity" correct.
Guys if you all listen carefully to the secret knowledge uncle g7 is going to give us
then we will know what horrid people these deceivers are and how we will not fall
for their deception.

Well brothers and sisters Jesus said it like this.
"My sheep know my voice, and they listen to me and I listen to them."

So simply listen to Jesus and His words. Let them speak to your heart
and dwell on them night and day. The rest will come like seeds planted
in the ground, well watered and looked after will sprout and grow.

What was surprising to me was when some believers started saying, with
the right teaching and preacher you could be so effective. And this believer
is reading the word and listening to the Holy Spirit. That is just so wrong.

The problem with people is sin and self justification of our sins. We hate
Gods simple pure gospel of love and denial, and would much rather have
the easy road of compromise and wealth and an easy life with no conflict.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Hi Grace: I follow some of the same practices that you do and have found that if you have a human involved then you can have bias. I try to really look at the context more then anything else. Just a word about being led by the Holy Spirit, I believe that God will allow us to believe something false if we want to. I remember a well known bible teacher who was praying that God would led them to only be in the truth. Shortly after that they were teaching a false doctrine and seven different people called in to the show and pointed out by scripture that what they were teaching was wrong. They blew all seven off with the words, we don't believe that way here. My point, God will allow us to believe something false if we really want to believe it.

I agree...and we only know in part which is why we need to listen to others in the body of Christ. Paul said that to him that thinks he knows something - he doesn't know it as he ought to know it.

I firmly believe we haven't even scratched the surface of the great salvation that is in our Lord Jesus Christ. I also believe that we are going to be appalled at the things we thought were true about the nature of our Father when we see Him for who He truly is.
 

MadebyHim

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2016
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[SUP]19 [/SUP]After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.