Seventh Day Adventist

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Are Seventh Day Adventists a Cult


  • Total voters
    28

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
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RolloTamasi

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tourist

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S

SophieT

Guest
True Jesus is our rest but prove from the bible that we no longer need to on the sabbath as God has asked us to.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

You can say this is just talking about finding rest in Jesus but there is too many references to the sabbath day and the rest that God had at creation to ignore.

that's easy enough ;)

6Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. 10And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
11In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christb and not by human hands. 12And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.c 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind. 19He has lost connection to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God causes it to grow.
20If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations: 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”? 22These will all perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such restrictions indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-prescribed worship, their false humility, and their harsh treatment of the body; but they are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Colossians 2

I'm sure we can discuss that further. Hebrews has nothing to do with instructions on keeping the Sabbath

the purpose of Hebrews was to exhort Christians in the face of persecution...not exhorting them to keep the Sabbath. you have to understand that it was revolutionary for Jewish people to commit to following Christ and understand that salvation is through Him alone, see Colossians 2 above (and of course many other passages)

it is interesting and yet sad, that so many seem to want to revert to the law, or think they should keep parts of it, and of course the 'Sabbath keeping' is the easiest thing in the world to follow. no effort at all...just change days and declare that you are keeping the Sabbath when nothing we do can earn or keep us saved. all of Christianity is through faith and in that regard, Hebrews is actually a book famous for its examples of faith.

Letter to the Colossians (church at Colossae) by Paul to admonish them as he had heard they were falling into serious error

the New Testament contains nothing at all about how we are to keep the law, parts of the law or special days. Christ is all. He is our High Priest whose sinless blood is on the altar and no more sacrifices are needed and no 'works' on our part
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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If it were the bible there would not be a need for the BDF. There are always opposing views and conflicts arise. I see a lot of SDA and Catholic bashing threads saying nobody that is affiliated with them is saved because of certain perceived conflicts with doctrine '/ practices with scripture and rarely see any other denomination subject to such scrutiny. I have stated more than once that I believe that every perceived Christian denomination has certain flaws.
I believe in this state: The Bible is inerrant, infallible, holy, inspired, Word of God.

With this mixture it can not be anything else but perfect and objective.

So the blame of subjective interpretations can only be at the feet of mankind.

I agree every perceived Christian denomination or human being has certain flaws related to interpretation.

But I do believe God guides us in salvation truth. There should be a basic level of agreement within salvation. If we differ over that then scripture warns us of other gospels.
 
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SophieT

Guest
It is possible to be born again and be SDA. I've met a few who are saved. The problem is that Ellen G White was a false prophet but SDA has accepted her teachings. I was given "The Great Controversy" by someone I met. I knew nothing about the SDA at the time. I started to read the book, and I could not get past the first page. It was from the pit, not from God.

I don't know why, but there is an inclination in some people to accept what is false without question. Hyper Pentecostals say that you are not saved unless you speak on tongues. Super conservatives say that speaking in tongues is of the devil. We have Christians who think that the only reason Jesus saved us is so that we can keep the Law. Then the over the top faith/prosperity/healing movements.... need I go on?

This is not new. Most of the NT was written to counteract heretical teachings that were being promoted by some. The answer is to keep focused on Christ, who He is and what He has done for us. If people got to know Jesus better, they would be less likely to be deceived.

This is not new. Most of the NT was written to counteract heretical teachings that were being promoted by some. The answer is to keep focused on Christ, who He is and what He has done for us. If people got to know Jesus better, they would be less likely to be deceived.
exactly...sometimes I wonder how many actually know this. error has always been around. the truth is actually simple
 
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SophieT

Guest
Actually, Ellen White herself said that she was not a prophet and therefore, no track record to speak of.

ummm.....if you mean like an OT prophet, then I would concur

however:

Ellen G. White became a leader of a segment of the Millerites (who called themselves Adventists) in May of 1863. Her many visions and writings influenced the formation of Seventh-Day Adventism and greatly shaped its doctrine. Today, most Seventh-Day Adventists still consider Ellen White to be a prophetess of God.

Ellen G. White was formerly a Methodist but later converted to Adventism through the preaching of William Miller, a false prophet who had predicted Christ would return in 1843 or 1844. When Miller’s prediction of Christ’s second advent failed to come true, the Millerites disbanded in dismay; however, a couple of Miller’s followers claimed to have visions to account for the failed prophecy. One of these seers was 17-year-old Ellen G. Harmon, who had the first of her 2,000 purported visions in a prayer meeting shortly after Miller’s disgrace. In her vision, Ellen claimed to have seen the Adventists on a journey to the city of God. Ellen G. Harmon soon became the beacon of hope for disappointed Millerites, the unifier of Adventist factions, and the spiritual guide for a new religious group.
GotQuestions

she started off on a bad foot, following Miller who made the fatal mistake of saying when Jesus would return and of course, failed.

bad beginnings = error

as you can see from the above, White (her maiden name was Harmon) claimed to have visions that explained the failed prophecy..so that alone is considered prophecy...or exhortation...as would be considered for a NT prophet...but of course it was false and not of God

so while she claims not to be a prophet, she behaves as one. this is but one example of many

ummm....the truth simply being that someone was following a false spirit and not the Holy Spirit

again, I am pretty sure that many in the movement do not know the entire history...I always check into history, one of my fav subjects...and do not know how things got started.

I do believe you can be saved and still believe error. does not mean you are not saved..we see this all the time

btw, that is a good article on Got Questions (link provided) for someone wanting historical facts and of course the web itself has hundreds if not thousands of articles about the SDA's
 
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SophieT

Guest
This rest that Hebrews speaks of is spiritual.
yes it is

but also means resting from all work! no more sacrifices, no more law upon law or terrible punishments and condemnation

we are set free from all of that!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Of course we are not under the Mosaic [Levitical] Law--only the 10 Commandments were written in Stone by the hand of God--the Mosaic Law was written by Moses for the Israelites. So you don't believe we should listen to Jesus himself when He says we are to keep His commandments?


Btw, did you know Saturday is called the Sabbath in over 100 languages?
The ten commandments was the foundation for the Mosiac law as to why Moses spent so many days and nights up on the mountain. The Mosiac law was inspired by God. As to why it was a death sentence to not keep the Sabbath.

I'll just adhere to


Colossians 2:16
New International Version

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Sabbath in English
In Greek
4521. sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)​
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,590
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ummm.....if you mean like an OT prophet, then I would concur

however:

Ellen G. White became a leader of a segment of the Millerites (who called themselves Adventists) in May of 1863. Her many visions and writings influenced the formation of Seventh-Day Adventism and greatly shaped its doctrine. Today, most Seventh-Day Adventists still consider Ellen White to be a prophetess of God.

Ellen G. White was formerly a Methodist but later converted to Adventism through the preaching of William Miller, a false prophet who had predicted Christ would return in 1843 or 1844. When Miller’s prediction of Christ’s second advent failed to come true, the Millerites disbanded in dismay; however, a couple of Miller’s followers claimed to have visions to account for the failed prophecy. One of these seers was 17-year-old Ellen G. Harmon, who had the first of her 2,000 purported visions in a prayer meeting shortly after Miller’s disgrace. In her vision, Ellen claimed to have seen the Adventists on a journey to the city of God. Ellen G. Harmon soon became the beacon of hope for disappointed Millerites, the unifier of Adventist factions, and the spiritual guide for a new religious group.
GotQuestions

she started off on a bad foot, following Miller who made the fatal mistake of saying when Jesus would return and of course, failed.

bad beginnings = error

as you can see from the above, White (her maiden name was Harmon) claimed to have visions that explained the failed prophecy..so that alone is considered prophecy...or exhortation...as would be considered for a NT prophet...but of course it was false and not of God

so while she claims not to be a prophet, she behaves as one. this is but one example of many

ummm....the truth simply being that someone was following a false spirit and not the Holy Spirit

again, I am pretty sure that many in the movement do not know the entire history...I always check into history, one of my fav subjects...and do not know how things got started.

I do believe you can be saved and still believe error. does not mean you are not saved..we see this all the time

btw, that is a good article on Got Questions (link provided) for someone wanting historical facts and of course the web itself has hundreds if not thousands of articles about the SDA's
Actually, I'm not much a fan of Ellen White at all. The SDA church does themselves a dis-service by how often they refer to her teachings. I do know from the services that I did attend that they believe in the Holy Trinity and that Jesus died for our sins. My wife is an SDA. I was born and raised a Catholic but have not attend mass for years due to various doctrine and practices that are contrary to spiritual truth. I know a little SDA history but not a whole lot. I do know that they have some strange perceptions on end-time events that I do not agree with. I'm not a big SDA fan but only pointing out that Ellen White herself said that she was not a prophet and that the Word of God always takes precedence over what she may believe and write about.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Actually, I'm not much a fan of Ellen White at all. The SDA church does themselves a dis-service by how often they refer to her teachings. I do know from the services that I did attend that they believe in the Holy Trinity and that Jesus died for our sins. My wife is an SDA. I was born and raised a Catholic but have not attend mass for years due to various doctrine and practices that are contrary to spiritual truth. I know a little SDA history but not a whole lot. I do know that they have some strange perceptions on end-time events that I do not agree with. I'm not a big SDA fan but only pointing out that Ellen White herself said that she was not a prophet and that the Word of God always takes precedence over what she may believe and write about.
yeah...I got the picture that she is SDA from her post...

listen...accepting Christ as our Savior and understanding He alone is our salvation is what counts

many 'Christian' churches are in error in one place or another and some are becoming apostate

as has been said, it is all about Jesus!

I know White said she was not a prophet, but research indicates the opposite

the Word of God always takes precedence over what she may believe and write about.
just so!
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Indeed. Seventh-day Adventists teach the following regarding the Investigative Judgment:

1. Christ moved from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary on October 22, 1844, and began a new phase of ministry. This ministry was foreshadowed by the Levitical Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:16-33).

2. The first phase of the "Day of Atonement" is called the "cleansing of the Sanctuary." It involves a pre-Advent investigation and judging of God's people to determine whose sins will be removed from the Sanctuary. Christ started this judgment in 1844, beginning with Adam and Eve and progressing chronologically down through the ages, judging all of the dead believers. At some point, near the end of time, Christ will begin judging living believers. During this Investigative Judgment God either blots out the sins of the believer, or he removes the name of the believer from the Book of Life.

As during the typical Day of Atonement the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary removed the sins accumulated there, so the heavenly sanctuary is cleansed by the final removal of the record of sins in the heavenly books. But before the records are finally cleared, they will be examined to determine who through repentance and faith in Christ is entitled to enter His eternal kingdom. The cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, therefore involves a work of investigation or judgment that reflects the nature of the Day of Atonement as a day of judgment. This judgment, which ratifies the decision as to who will be saved and who will be lost...1​
3. Whenever one of God's followers commits a sin and asks foregiveness from God, that sin is transferred into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly Sanctuary. It remains there, in the Sanctuary, until the Investigative Judgment is completed. At the end of time, all the sins of the righteous are transferred from the Sanctuary onto the Scapegoat, who is Satan. Satan then suffers the final punishment for his sins and all the sins of the righteous.

https://www.nonsda.org/study4.shtml

Seventh-day Adventists also teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

https://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml

Statements made by Ellen G White:

“Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible.” (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23).

“The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast.” (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850).

“The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church.” ... “The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark.” (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281).

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}
I had looked up "ellen white"+"prophecies" while looking into Adventists. They were strange and i couldn't makes sense of them. in photos of her expression reminds me of Rasputin. Her teachings are ludicrous--that naming of a date when 'such and such' happens--humans live in time--not God. With only that one thing it would seem obvious she is a false prophet. But the rest is nonsense--Christ moved from the Holy Place to the most Holy Place--there is no temple in heaven! And the worst of all of it is when she says SATAN is the scapegoat. How could they read this and not see her teaching as both nonsensical and blasphemous?

But again all mainstream denominations have cleverly devised false doctrines that may appear true, but when tested against scripture fail miserably. They are dangerous in their subtlety.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
I believe John Calvin was a false prophet.
Does that mean all reformed believers are not saved?

oh man don't get started on Calvin

we have had numerous battle royales over that :LOL:

he did go overboard
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Actually, I'm not much a fan of Ellen White at all. The SDA church does themselves a dis-service by how often they refer to her teachings. I do know from the services that I did attend that they believe in the Holy Trinity and that Jesus died for our sins. My wife is an SDA. I was born and raised a Catholic but have not attend mass for years due to various doctrine and practices that are contrary to spiritual truth. I know a little SDA history but not a whole lot. I do know that they have some strange perceptions on end-time events that I do not agree with. I'm not a big SDA fan but only pointing out that Ellen White herself said that she was not a prophet and that the Word of God always takes precedence over what she may believe and write about.
Jerry, you are one of the most loving guys on this site. I am pretty sure that quite
a few of us were also raised within the RCC. That you attend an SDA church now
because your wife does, is understandable. Some in your position might kick up
a fuss and cause marital problems over it. It is to your credit that you do not :)
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
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The ten commandments was the foundation for the Mosiac law as to why Moses spent so many days and nights up on the mountain. The Mosiac law was inspired by God. As to why it was a death sentence to not keep the Sabbath.

I'll just adhere to


Colossians 2:16
New International Version

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Sabbath in English
In Greek
4521. sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)

No. The 10 Commandments and Mosaic Law are TWO different things--Christ call us to keep the Commandments not the Law.

Also I pointed this subtle but very important difference; it say let no one judge you on 'A' Sabbath day, not THE Sabbath Day.

Here is the list of special Sabbaths--again they are not THE SABBATH:


 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
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The ten commandments was the foundation for the Mosiac law as to why Moses spent so many days and nights up on the mountain. The Mosiac law was inspired by God. As to why it was a death sentence to not keep the Sabbath.

I'll just adhere to


Colossians 2:16
New International Version

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Sabbath in English
In Greek
4521. sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)

From Wikipedia:

High Sabbaths, also called Special Sabbaths -- These are the 'A' Sabbath's as opposed to THE SABBATH --sabbath simple means 'rest'

High Sabbaths
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about a group of seven biblical festivals. For Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur specifically, see High Holy Days. For Sabbath before Pesach, see Shabbat haGadol.
High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.[1][2][3] This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31.
Contents
Biblical rest days[edit]
The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Two of the shabbath (holy assemblies) occur in spring on the first and last day of the Feast of unleavened bread (Matzot). One occurs in the summer, this is the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot). And four occur in the fall in the seventh month. Feast of Trumpets (Yom Teru'ah) on the first day of the seventh month; the second is the Day or Atonement (Yom Kippur); and two during the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) on the first and last day. Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[4]
The Gospel of John says of the day beginning following Christ's death, "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31–42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 13 or 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,133
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High Sabbaths, also called Special Sabbaths -- These are the 'A' Sabbath's
as opposed to THE SABBATH --sabbath simple means 'rest'
This is why I believe that the Sabbath was instituted as a shadow/type, for now we find our rest in Christ. It is not specific to any day as it once was, when even to carry a pin in your pocket was considered work. How ridiculous is that? And yet that is the lengths legalists will go in attempting to force others to "keep" the Sabbath, and condemn them if they don't. Jesus Himself was accused of breaking the Sabbath. The religious leaders sought to kill Him because of it. Now we get people coming here (to this site) saying such ridiculous things as, "It is breaking a commandment to worship God on Sunday." The fact of the matter is, there is no such commandment. The fact of the matter is, worshiping God every day is recommended. The fact of the matter is, God desires those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

Jesus is my Sabbath rest.


Matthew 11:28-30
:)
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
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Let us remember though the true meaning of the parable. It was not about the rich young ruler achieving perfection as Jesus pointed out he was still not upholding up the law. He instead should of put his faith in Jesus.
Parable? This is no parable. Jesus is speaking to the rich man in response to his question "What must I do to have eternal life?"

Matthew 19:16-22

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [d]from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,853
4,506
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No. The 10 Commandments and Mosaic Law are TWO different things--Christ call us to keep the Commandments not the Law.

Also I pointed this subtle but very important difference; it say let no one judge you on 'A' Sabbath day, not THE Sabbath Day.

Here is the list of special Sabbaths--again they are not THE SABBATH:

I explained the Word meaning in Greek. Definitely speaks of the 7th day not a festival or ceremony.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,133
29,446
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Parable? This is no parable. Jesus is speaking to the rich man in response to his question "What must I do to have eternal life?"

Matthew 19:16-22

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [d]from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Let us not forget, that under the law as the rich young ruler was, to fail in one part of the law was to fail the whole of it.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.